The new player experience in this game is a bit of a disaster

[Rhyagelle]

I don't think new players should be immediately dropped into a ruin, not only because they are almost everywhere and can certainly be found well before the first day is out, but also because that's definitely going to ruin the surprise of finding them out themselves.

What about an initial "flavor" text for new players/new worlds? Something like (obviously not exactly like this), "Gather x and y for a z"? It wouldn't show again, just for that initial newness. Alternatively, SP could keep the game paused in handbook and then show them a message that directly links to the "first steps" section, which itself would have a bit more depth added to it?

8 hours ago, BigBadBeef said:

Nor should they. Incompetence should not be incouraged. a loser is NOT "the last winner".

For someone so ready to insult people by calling them incompetent, you should probably know that word in bold is spelt "encouraged". 

[l33tmaan]

5 minutes ago, Rhyagelle said:

Alternatively, SP could keep the game paused in handbook and then show them a message that directly links to the "first steps" section, which itself would have a bit more depth added to it?

Well, Tyron just did that first half. Maybe he's reading this thread...

[Rhyagelle]

Just now, l33tmaan said:

Well, Tyron just did that first half. Maybe he's reading this thread...

I just saw! Perhaps he is reading the thread! That would be really fantastic for the new players' input to be taken, even if not all or any of it ends up making the cut. At least I know this pausing feature is going to save the sanity of quite a few new players, some of my friends included. lol

[Domkrats]

21 minutes ago, l33tmaan said:

AND a club! Why don't we just give them the admin longblade falx too!

Just an idea. It could be ruin, it could be broken chest with one knife around...not the point. Point is to make first experience less stressfull, as dark night is coming (even without mobs yet) and starvation can take huge time of players mind, so he even forgets that knife/basket/torch etc. can make life little bit easier.

p.s. @l33tmaan i've noticed your edgy posts in forums. It's great you know everything about this game, but sometimes you could at least try to get down to new player level just to better understand them.  You could be one reason player leaves this game. He would probably need some encouragement..yet he meets you in forum as final straw so he feels stupid for not knowing how to make a torch in 60 seconds. So he decides...this game isn't for him.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Domkrats

[Thorfinn]

There is something to be said for starting with a limited set of tools. Maybe a mostly dead generic stone knife and axe. Enough to prompt that, "OK, I need to replace that knife. How?" When the improvised armor the game spotted newbs with dies after 2 hits, "Great. Just great. How do I build another?"

I wouldn't start with a torch, though. No point in building a firepit if you already have a torch. Yes, the first time you jump into deep water it's gone, but the next time you realize how easy it is to just place your torch before going out to gather reeds, and once you have your first basket, your torch can be waterproof. And that allows you to create as many torches as you like without worrying about figuring out firestarters and firepits. If I didn't need to make that first torch, there's no way I'd build a firepit the first night. 

[dakko]

1 hour ago, Thorfinn said:

If I didn't need to make that first torch, there's no way I'd build a firepit the first night. 

Do you know that the firestarter can be used to light the first torch? It isn't necessary to light a torch in the firepit.

[dakko]

I made a suggestion that an option be provided for players to start with 1 torch and 8 bread like we used to in the past. That would make it a configuration option and those that want it can use it. Please feel free to add your (starter item) suggestions to that thread if you'd like.

 

eta link

Edited October 12, 2022 by dakko

[BigBadBeef]

4 hours ago, Rhyagelle said:

For someone so ready to insult people by calling them incompetent, you should probably know that word in bold is spelt "encouraged". 

By the definition of the Merriam-Webster dictionary, and internationally acclaimed piece of explanatory literature, the word that you so hastily proclaim of being an insult, is an adjective, defined by lacking the qualities needed for effective action or being unable to function properly. Are you implying that this doesn't apply to the topic at hand?

 

21 minutes ago, dakko said:

I made a suggestion that an option be provided for players to start with 1 torch and 8 bread like we used to in the past. That would make it a configuration option and those that want it can use it. Please feel free to add your (starter item) suggestions to that thread if you'd like.

Why? Just why? Why the mercy? The pity? Berries are everywhere in this game. Rocks and sticks are literally just lying around on the floor! You can have a spear going in 5 minutes and throw into a rabbit's butt and BANG! Meat! Axe, throw down a tree, make firewood, make campfire - cooked meat!

And who on earth doesn't go on Youtube these days to check out a game before buying one?

And what could those developers do in an acceptable frame of time that could possibly be on par with what the social media influencers are doing for both promoting the game and teaching people about it? I was recently claimed of insulting people for lacking even the most basic ability to look up a how to guide on the most popular video sharing platform ON THE PLANET, but what of the insults you are dealing to them by the sole merit by not giving them their due credit?

I am not some super-pro on a "noob bashing campaign", I am a first timer, It's my first playthrough, I just started last week. I barely got a copper tool or two. And I'm a casual gamer. This game is easy, but it is complicated. Lord forbid people start actually thinking a little bit.

Worst above all its all explained very nicely in the handbook... THE FIRST THING YOU SEE WHEN YOU START THE GAME! And if that isn't enough, I don't know what is.

Edited October 12, 2022 by BigBadBeef

[l33tmaan]

4 hours ago, Domkrats said:

p.s. @l33tmaan i've noticed your edgy posts in forums. It's great you know everything about this game, but sometimes you could at least try to get down to new player level just to better understand them.  You could be one reason player leaves this game. He would probably need some encouragement..yet he meets you in forum as final straw so he feels stupid for not knowing how to make a torch in 60 seconds. So he decides...this game isn't for him.

 

[Thorfinn]

29 minutes ago, dakko said:

Do you know that the firestarter can be used to light the first torch? It isn't necessary to light a torch in the firepit.

Nope. Never thought to try it. Thanks.

As easy as food is to come by, especially fish now, bread is probably overkill. But as a configurable option, why not? Standard, Novice, Exploration, Wilderness Survival, Creative. 

[Thorfinn]

17 minutes ago, BigBadBeef said:

And who on earth doesn't go on Youtube these days to check out a game before buying one?

Me, for one. I just typed, "alternatives to minecraft" and this caught my interest. Had I actually ruined my experience by watching Youtube, I'd have probably been lighting my first torch with a firestarter this whole time.  

[Rhyagelle]

1 hour ago, Thorfinn said:

Me, for one. I just typed, "alternatives to minecraft" and this caught my interest. Had I actually ruined my experience by watching Youtube, I'd have probably been lighting my first torch with a firestarter this whole time.  

 

I also found Vintage Story due to googling "minecraft alternatives".  I think VS was like third on the list that I read, but definitely the only real competitor in the end. 

[dakko]

4 hours ago, BigBadBeef said:

Why? Just why? Why the mercy? The pity? Berries are everywhere in this game. Rocks and sticks are literally just lying around on the floor! You can have a spear going in 5 minutes and throw into a rabbit's butt and BANG! Meat! Axe, throw down a tree, make firewood, make campfire - cooked meat!

And who on earth doesn't go on Youtube these days to check out a game before buying one?

And what could those developers do in an acceptable frame of time that could possibly be on par with what the social media influencers are doing for both promoting the game and teaching people about it? I was recently claimed of insulting people for lacking even the most basic ability to look up a how to guide on the most popular video sharing platform ON THE PLANET, but what of the insults you are dealing to them by the sole merit by not giving them their due credit?

I am not some super-pro on a "noob bashing campaign", I am a first timer, It's my first playthrough, I just started last week. I barely got a copper tool or two. And I'm a casual gamer. This game is easy, but it is complicated. Lord forbid people start actually thinking a little bit.

Worst above all its all explained very nicely in the handbook... THE FIRST THING YOU SEE WHEN YOU START THE GAME! And if that isn't enough, I don't know what is.

Because it isn't all about what you or I think is adequate.

There are people here expressing frustration with the game. My suggestion is a simple option. If you and I do not wish to use it, then we don't have to.

Personally, I think there is a lot to be said for immersing yourself in the game and learning as you go. Chill in the stone age for awhile. There is no need to jackrabbit to copper, or whatever. I don't even make a bed (someone recently expressed that it was difficult having to do so many things on the first day, and gathering grass for a bed was one of the things mentioned -- I don't even have a bed). I don't see the need to be trying to know every nuance of the game on Day 1. Relax. Explore. Pick some berries, or cattail roots, or kill some fish. But that's me.

[dakko]

4 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

Nope. Never thought to try it. Thanks.

As easy as food is to come by, especially fish now, bread is probably overkill. But as a configurable option, why not? Standard, Novice, Exploration, Wilderness Survival, Creative. 

Yeah, I didn't think of the firestarter to light a torch either. Wish I could remember which youtuber deserves the credit.

[Domkrats]

11 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

There is something to be said for starting with a limited set of tools. Maybe a mostly dead generic stone knife and axe. Enough to prompt that, "OK, I need to replace that knife. How?" When the improvised armor the game spotted newbs with dies after 2 hits, "Great. Just great. How do I build another?"

Had similar thought when suggested club at the beginning. Not meaning it as option for all. Having it could still lead you into trouble if you don't have armor yet and you decide to kill sheep, so i wouldn't say that it is somehow game breaker as club or torch is possible to make quickly anyway.

9 hours ago, BigBadBeef said:

This game is easy, but it is complicated. Lord forbid people start actually thinking a little bit.

Some guys get so offended as they thing that adding more tips/guidance at first steps only will somehow ruin this game for them and game will call them stupid now.  I just have seen many guys (and my kids) reacting to this game. So i try to understand why so, as we can play many games together without any problems. So i started to compare - others games had nice tips at first, so they didn't have to ask me for every thing they should do. And also they didn't feel good, when i got surpised/upset sometimes that they still don't understand what to do after my explanation. So i cought myself at being too harsh, thinking everything is obvious (as it is for me only).  We all just wan't this game to be more fun for everyone, as we love this game ourselves already.  So we are just "brain-storm"ing here and there is no risk for players here while something from this is added to main game.

There is new generation of gamers growing out there with "x-ray vision" included in games, highlighted interactions and many cutscenes which play game for you.  It's not great, but many shit-game sales show that's just how it is. I just played Half-life series again. I am sure that new players today rage quit at some of the levels as there is no clear tips what you need to do to progress. Same with S.T.A.L.K.E.R, for example. Games were differend back then.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Domkrats

[Tyron]

This discussion is getting too heated here, locking topic.

Suffice to say, an optional tutorial will likely be in the game some day.