no animals were harmed Primitive Survival

[Spear and Fang]

Thanks for the kind words @Ashiel.  I'm sure I can do something related to removing rotten fish and will add that to my to-do list.  I'm curious how you made out with the fish in soup and stew recipes?  I think you might be right about it being a mod conflict situation, as it's the only part of my entire mod that relies on patching the game's code directly.

[Takata Cheroki]

Might I make a suggestion for some additions? I'm thinking of a drying rack/line that you can hang meats and fish on to preserve or smoke them. I figure you could just use cord the same way you do to make a fishing line, and then either hang hooks on it or right-click the line with the fish/meat in hand and some cord in your inventory to tie it on.

I also have a more minor suggestion that's purely aesthetic: the way the character hold the fish in their hand looks wrong in 3rd person. I would recommend making them hold the fish by the tail, with the arm in the same position as when holding a lantern.

I'm really loving the mod so far; keep up the good work!

[Spear and Fang]

@Takata Cheroki Glad you're loving it, your comments are much appreciated!  I've had a fish smoker/rack on my to-do list since the early days of this mod, but back then I simply didn't have the know-how back then to make that a reality.  I think I'm finally able pull it off, it's just a matter of buckling down and getting it done.  Hopefully I'll find the time over the holidays to get it done.

And yeah, it's a breeze to sort out that fish holding aesthetic.  I'm all about attention to detail, especially when it's something that can be easily fixed.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Spear and Fang

[l33tmaan]

Think you might be able to make it into a general purpose smoking rack, so you can put things like oiled leather and other curing items onto it?

[Rufferto]

Excellent mod!  The fish add a nice addition to cooking, and definitely helps in the winter.  While looking at the cooking pot however, I note that the fish part of the pot graphic, as well as in the bowl, are missing.  I used onion and turnip, and those parts of the graphic are there, but the space occupied by red meat is missing when you substitute fish for your protein.

Does the material the lure is made out of increase success chance for limb line or trot line fishing?

Would it be possible to add mushrooms to be used as bait?

 

[Spear and Fang]

2 hours ago, l33tmaan said:

Think you might be able to make it into a general purpose smoking rack, so you can put things like oiled leather and other curing items onto it?

Can you provide specific examples of what would go into it and what would come out?  I mean, it's easy enough to let you put whatever you like into it, but if the output is not something that already exists, then it can be a real challenge deciding what purpose that new item would serve.

[Spear and Fang]

27 minutes ago, Rufferto said:

Excellent mod!  The fish add a nice addition to cooking, and definitely helps in the winter.  While looking at the cooking pot however, I note that the fish part of the pot graphic, as well as in the bowl, are missing.  I used onion and turnip, and those parts of the graphic are there, but the space occupied by red meat is missing when you substitute fish for your protein.

Does the material the lure is made out of increase success chance for limb line or trot line fishing?

Would it be possible to add mushrooms to be used as bait?

 

Thanks!  Funny, someone else just reported that issue to me, and I've already added it to my list.  The lure material makes no difference - I didn't really want to reveal that because perception can become reality, but...now you know!  Hmmm, I'd rather not as mushrooms as bait - there's already a crazy amount of bait types you can use, and I've been getting reports that fishing is too darn easy.

[Rufferto]

Often the hardest part is getting enough fish of two types to make a full pot of stew.  The fishtraps are a valuable addition, especially in limestone poor areas.  I guess the difficulty question would come down to either reducing catch frequency, and then reducing effectiveness based on the number of hooks in the water in a given area.  This might be modified with bait/lures.  Otherwise maybe there's additional process steps, such as doing a cure as you do with bushmeat/redmeat, add salt into a cure process in a barrel in brine, etc. 

I don't envy the balancing tasks, and I love your mod, so thank you again. 

[Godogma]

I dunno about too darn easy; I have nearly a dozen basket and weir traps out and I check several times a day ... often getting one or two fish per day if that and as for too many baits and the like? I've caught fish on cubes of soap in real life, as have several people on worldwide television.

I'd say go for realism instead of the illusion of balance myself.

I still haven't tried fishing on a line with the mod, but I might try that after I've gotten some sleep.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Godogma

[Spear and Fang]

1 hour ago, Rufferto said:

Often the hardest part is getting enough fish of two types to make a full pot of stew.  The fishtraps are a valuable addition, especially in limestone poor areas.  I guess the difficulty question would come down to either reducing catch frequency, and then reducing effectiveness based on the number of hooks in the water in a given area.  This might be modified with bait/lures.  Otherwise maybe there's additional process steps, such as doing a cure as you do with bushmeat/redmeat, add salt into a cure process in a barrel in brine, etc. 

I don't envy the balancing tasks, and I love your mod, so thank you again. 

The fish types issue was also brought to my attention yesterday, and the proposal was to be able to fillet the fish to make them all the same inventory type.  That is totally doable without a lot of work, and I've already added that to my list.  And after @Godogma's comment about fishing with soap, I've also decided to add mushrooms (and meat too, what the heck) to the accepted bait types list.  I mean, I'm all for realism!

 

[Spear and Fang]

55 minutes ago, Godogma said:

I dunno about too darn easy; I have nearly a dozen basket and weir traps out and I check several times a day ... often getting one or two fish per day if that and as for too many baits and the like? I've caught fish on cubes of soap in real life, as have several people on worldwide television.

I'd say go for realism instead of the illusion of balance myself.

I still haven't tried fishing on a line with the mod, but I might try that after I've gotten some sleep.

Hmmm.  So.  confused.  right.  now.  I'm going to have to do some playtesting and figure out where things are at.  I reduced the likelihood of catching fish back in v1.3 and so it's a little frustrating to hear that it's still too easy.  The truth is, I want it to be relatively easy, because why would people even bother with my mod if it was too hard?  I guess easy and hard are pretty subjective, but I'd like to lean a little more towards easy.  Appreciate your input!

[l33tmaan]

15 hours ago, Spear and Fang said:

Can you provide specific examples of what would go into it and what would come out?  I mean, it's easy enough to let you put whatever you like into it, but if the output is not something that already exists, then it can be a real challenge deciding what purpose that new item would serve.

You know, I thought there were more items besides leather and bushmeat jerky that need curing, but maybe I'm wrong. And I'm pretty sure the jerky is from a mod. But uh... maybe you could dry out berries and mushrooms to increase shelf life? It'd be great if you could use them in meals, too. I know "berries that last longer" isn't a high minded idea, but it's something. Do cheeses need to cure?

[Spear and Fang]

20 minutes ago, l33tmaan said:

You know, I thought there were more items besides leather and bushmeat jerky that need curing, but maybe I'm wrong. And I'm pretty sure the jerky is from a mod. But uh... maybe you could dry out berries and mushrooms to increase shelf life? It'd be great if you could use them in meals, too. I know "berries that last longer" isn't a high minded idea, but it's something. Do cheeses need to cure?

Ahh ok.  I think initially I'd only make it for fish unless there was some output that already existed in game that I could easily tie into, and then when Tyron rolls out fishing in Vanilla I'd probably refactor it so serve some other purposes.  But yeah, anything's possible there.

And yeah, the jerky is from this very mod!  It might be a prime candidate for the smoker.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Spear and Fang

[l33tmaan]

Well... if you don't get around to making dried berries then maybe I will.  Can't be that hard, right?

[Spear and Fang]

44 minutes ago, l33tmaan said:

Well... if you don't get around to making dried berries then maybe I will.  Can't be that hard, right?

Not terribly hard.  I thought Rue was working on that, but I guess not...

[l33tmaan]

Yeah, if they get around to it, they get around to it. Maybe I'll get impatient first, who knows? As long as they get made.

[Godogma]

If you wanted something else to add to the game for a smoker; smoked cheddar is very delicious if you know what you're doing and increases shelf life but I'm not sure it's necessary (I have cheese that has a spoilage time in years in my cellar in game now after all)... Could be fun though. :)

 

[Gabriel Burdin]

First and foremost, this mod is awesome. The traps add a whole new element that I felt was lacking in the base game and it does it well...too well. That leads to the second thing. I don't know if I just plopped the deadfalls in a high traffic area but within 20 minutes of setting them down I had already crushed close to 30 rabbits. I think a slight decrease to the attraction chance/range would do wonders. Other than that it's been great. I just have an ungodly amount of rabbits laying in my front yard lol.

[Spear and Fang]

26 minutes ago, Gabriel Burdin said:

First and foremost, this mod is awesome. The traps add a whole new element that I felt was lacking in the base game and it does it well...too well. That leads to the second thing. I don't know if I just plopped the deadfalls in a high traffic area but within 20 minutes of setting them down I had already crushed close to 30 rabbits. I think a slight decrease to the attraction chance/range would do wonders. Other than that it's been great. I just have an ungodly amount of rabbits laying in my front yard lol.

Firstly, thanks so much for the kind words.  I've put a lot of work into this mod, so I'm so glad that people are enjoying it!  Secondly, I'm losing my mind right now.  Just the other day I had someone tell me that the snare was pretty much useless.  The snare is VERY similar to the deadfall, only slightly better. 

It's starting to occur to me that there simply isn't a way to provide everyone with a similar experience. I've been getting the same sort of feedback about fishing - it's way too easy for some, and way too hard for others.  

Not knocking you in any way, shape, or form, and I really do appreciate hearing from you, so thanks again.  I just don't know what to do to fix things!

[l33tmaan]

You need a lot more information on the variables that people are going through before you can wrangle any meaningful feedback out of it.
Gabriel got 30 rabbits... but how many deadfalls did he put down? What climate? What was the area around the deadfalls like? The same can be said for fishing. How many hooks and traps do you have set up? Do you bait them? This isn't even getting into what some people consider easy and what some consider hard.
Short of doing controlled testing it's going to be very difficult to pin down how balanced it is. So you can do that or... just wing it. 

[Spear and Fang]

17 minutes ago, l33tmaan said:

You need a lot more information on the variables that people are going through before you can wrangle any meaningful feedback out of it.
Gabriel got 30 rabbits... but how many deadfalls did he put down? What climate? What was the area around the deadfalls like? The same can be said for fishing. How many hooks and traps do you have set up? Do you bait them? This isn't even getting into what some people consider easy and what some consider hard.
Short of doing controlled testing it's going to be very difficult to pin down how balanced it is. So you can do that or... just wing it. 

I said something to that effect to someone long ago...basically that if I make it hard they'll just place 10x more and it will still be easy.  Just wing it is the advice I really needed.  Thanks!

[Spear and Fang]

And quite frankly, just like in real life some people should find it hard and others should find it easy.  Nature be like that.

[Ashiel]

On 12/16/2020 at 10:09 PM, Spear and Fang said:

Thanks for the kind words @Ashiel.  I'm sure I can do something related to removing rotten fish and will add that to my to-do list.  I'm curious how you made out with the fish in soup and stew recipes?  I think you might be right about it being a mod conflict situation, as it's the only part of my entire mod that relies on patching the game's code directly.

You're very welcome. I'm pretty sure your mod is my favorite out of all of the mods I've used so far (if I had to lose all but one mod, I'd probably keep this one). It's very near perfect in terms of what I enjoy in mods like these (it creates new gameplay options, offers immersive ways of doing things, and is not overly complicated).

I did get the fish soup to work. It was indeed a mod conflict, and sadly it was a conflict with a mod that I myself made using the mod-creation tool in Vintage Story. The mod I made allowed you to use bushmeat for cooking (growing up in the southern united states of America, I can very much assure you that people can in fact cook gamey meats like raccoon, opossum, squirrel, etc). Not really sure why it broke being able to cook fish but I might go fiddle with it and remake it for 1.14 later, but for now I'd rather be able to cook fish (and bushmeat jerky is a fine alternative in the meantime).

In terms of balance vs immersion, I'll take immersion over balance. I also agree that no matter how hard you make it, it's only a matter of the number of traps you set up before food becomes a casual thing (I myself will usually build about 8-10 weir traps spread out along a river or something to ensure I can eat daily), so I don't really see a lot of value in reducing catch rates because it won't actually make it harder, just make it clunkier.

Relatedly, I rather like that it encourages basing and settling near water supplies where fish and stuff can be found. That seems pretty "accurate" to me in terms of realism. I also find that getting a good source of fish early game allows me to spend more time playing and building, rather than just wandering around getting other types of food. I am very excited about meat drying and fish filleting, and wanted to say thank you for your amazing work.

[Spear and Fang]

@Ashiel*Blushing*.  I think I may know more about this mod conflict.  I was reworking my stew and soup patch yesterday to fix the missing textures and add the fish fillets (yes, fillets are done and will be in the next release), I discovered a single reference to bushmeat and I now suspect that it was me that had caused the conflict .  That's been fixed so my hope is that bushmeat meals will no longer be an issue with the next release.

Couldn't agree more about basing near water.  In a survival setting, water is so important.  I would love to see it get a little more tlc in the vanilla game.

FYI, I had used @ozBillo's  Bushmeat meals mod to figure out how to add fish to Primitive Survival, which is where the bushmeat reference came from.
 

 

[Ashiel]

Thanks. I'd be really cool if I could cook both, as I am the "homemaker" of our group. Thanks for suggesting this mod, 'cause for reasons I didn't understand, while my mod did work and allow for cooking the bushmeat, it didn't show up in the pot or bowl, so they looked empty (meaning I probably needed to alter or add something that I didn't know to). I'll try this mod in lieu of the one I made.