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Death Punishment?


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1 hour ago, Allen said:

I feel like 'drop all items, get booted to spawn' kind of sucks as a death penalty especially in open world games like this. It discourages traveling long distances as you can easily loose stuff if you're too far away from spawn when you die.

When you create a new world, you can easily customize it and choose "Keep inventory items" for death punishment. :)

Or change it later:

/worldconfig deathPunishment [drop|keep]
Whether to drop your inventory upon death (default: drop)

https://wiki.vintagestory.at/index.php?title=List_of_server_commands/worldconfig

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3 hours ago, Allen said:

Maybe it's because I settled decently close to spawn, but I find food spoilages to be a minor concern when I die.

Meat is a problem since it spoils fast, but even that's not too much of a problem since just turning it into a meal and putting it in a crock has it keep for around a week, more if you seal the crock.

And if you make a vessel, grain and vegetables store for ages(around 30 days or so for most vegetables, up to two years for grain). And all this is possible very early on as they just require clay.

Yeah, some raw meat and other stuff that had little time left sometimes rots, but most I find for most food, rotting isn't a problem unless you settle several days travel away from spawn.

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All that said, I feel like 'drop all items, get booted to spawn' kind of sucks as a death penalty especially in open world games like this. It discourages traveling long distances as you can easily loose stuff if you're too far away from spawn when you die. It gets especially annoying in dangerous places like deep underground because 1: you're more likely to die, 2: it's usually very far away from home/spawn, and 3: due to item despawns, you're forced to run back to where you died, usually even more poorly prepared than you where when you first died, rather than preparing and returning to reclaim your things when better equipped.

A grave/corpse to hold your items when you die like others said sounds like a nice way to punish death but still have long distance travel not be as iffy to do. Maybe it could have some demerits like food rotting faster or items slowly loosing durability if they're left in the grave/corpse, or maybe items in your inventory are saved but stuff in your hotbar/hands are dropped? Lure hostile mobs to it?

Another death penalty I've seen and liked is having several far-off spawn points and having the player spawn on a random one on death. So every time you die, you're dropped off in a (usually) totally new location. It can be a bit annoying at first since you're essentially getting reset every time you die, but after a while, you end up with most spawns having some sort of base to get you geared and ready to get back to your main base, and it incentives branching out and exploring far so you can 'connect' each of the spawns together. Granted, this works best when the game has some sort of good transportation system inside to make linking the spawns together easier. 

 

Mostly, I think it's nice if death penalties had some way of being negated or reduced either with planning or if some sort of progression instead of being a 'you died you get unavoidable setbacks' or 'you died so now do Y right now or loose all your stuff'.

 

 

So i equip a torch, and i like to travel 5k blocks just to look around. Now that i am playing with the propick, i will probably extend my travel radius, and make paths to the interesting places. So yeah, getting killed is the loss of at least two days worth of travel. So now in my newest world, i turned  off the death penalty. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

When you die, you lose everything. Yes, everything. Stats, nutrition, even your stuff. However, it's not gone per-se, but rather unavailable. Invisible to you.

Any other player can come by and skin the body to obtain the stuff you had, and a friend can use medicine to cure the body back to life, saving you.

Randomized spawn points could also go a long way in solving the frustration of feeling like the game was taken from you; instead you're given a new start. It would also stop players from 'death looping' to avoid having to survive, especially when paired up with Temporal Gears being single-use.

Edited by Omega Haxors
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Im new at this game and have died only once - near to spawn, because thought i am tough enough to kill wolf without any armor or leading him to water.

So i am unfamiliar with feeling the pain of losing everything far from spawn yet. Just wanted to say that having possibility to get back items, which doesnt spoil would be fine, Yet food items should be lost i think. And i wouldn't want to have some punishment on health, because dying and having to go after your items seems punishment enough for me. :)

But as i said, have died once ATM and even didn't notice how it affected my health. :) I see this is and old post, so probably all those questions are already decided. :)

Edited by Domkrats
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On 11/3/2020 at 6:27 AM, Domkrats said:

Im new at this game and have died only once - near to spawn, because thought i am tough enough to kill wolf without any armor or leading him to water.

So i am unfamiliar with feeling the pain of losing everything far from spawn yet. Just wanted to say that having possibility to get back items, which doesnt spoil would be fine, Yet food items should be lost i think. And i wouldn't want to have some punishment on health, because dying and having to go after your items seems punishment enough for me. :)

But as i said, have died once ATM and even didn't notice how it affected my health. :) I see this is and old post, so probably all those questions are already decided. :)

the real pain, is when you are in a "heavily explored area" and fall down a pit you have missed a million times. 

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I'm also in the lootable corpse/grave camp. The first time I died, I started running back to where I died and got a temporal storm warning before I even left my base, so there wouldn't have been enough time to get there and back. It gives people a little time to strategize how to recover their items rather than just making a desperate run for them.

When exp and skills are a thing, will there be an option to lose everything on death, rather than just some? Having semi-permadeath would be a really cool game mode, especially if it was combined with the randomized spawn points that Omega mentioned (and maybe wiping the explored minimap/waypoints?) Your old character would be dead for good and you would have to start from scratch, with a chance that you might one day stumble across their body or home.

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Imo death punishment is unneccesary in the current state of the game. Just respawn the player with all their stuff. 

In general mobs just pop up without any rhyme or reason, random holes in the ground to fall into etc These are random punishments just for playing the game, the time wasted in having to return to where you were is already kind of harsh.

The only notable exceptions would be starving and stuff that spawns only in depths. Those could have more thematically appropriate consequences. Depths are already kind of rewardless though, and having to fight your way through the endless drifters is itself already punishment and a drain on resources. Until these things have more content I don't see a reason to punish that further.

Starvation could maybe give you debuffs to anything not involved with getting food untill you have an appropriately lavish meal?

Edited by Feone Varen
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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

Just started playing this game after watching a few YouTube videos and I must say it is a welcome change to the usual modded-minecraft-experience.  I have always wanted to try out Terrafirmacraft (TFC) but found the prospect too daunting, and intimidating, due to needing to learn so much.

I feel this game captures the essence of TFC without being too difficult and I love sitting at the campfire watching the pot lid rattle whilst it cooks my stew!

I agree with a lot of what people are saying on this thread as I too feel the death punishment is too much and somewhat ruins the fun aspects of the game, at least for me, from my perspective.

So here are my suggestions:

1. Nomad lifestyle spawning system.  I love to wander and feel that a sleeping bag backpack that either resets or adds an additional spawn for the player so they can happily explore may be a potential solution.  An alternative to this would be a buildable campsite consisting of a bed, campfire and small shelter (think tent or wigwam thematics) that the player can create to spawn at when they die.  This leads on the next suggestion.

2. Fast Travel System and Fast Travel Packs. As many players have said the death punishment in this game does not lend itself to the idea and enjoyment of exploration as there is no way to add additional spawn points or swiftly travel to explored areas.  This is my suggestion:  A fast travel system similar to Horizon Zero Dawn whereby the player uses travel rations to swiftly move across the map.  This would also 'tie in' to the idea above of a nomad lifestyle spawning system as the player can set up camps across the map to allow for exploration; food parcels or travel rations can aid in making these journeys possible. 

These types of ideas could also expand to other things such as trade/item convoys whereby a player can move their items across the map via horses or donkeys by using certain types of travel/food rations.  This could take a certain amount of time to give the player the sense of immersion.

In conclusion, I do think there are a lot of people on this thread that wish for solutions to the death punishment in this game, and as customization is a part of the game devs philosophy, I'm confident they won't disappoint; all of the above suggestions could be toggled on/off in the game configurations to allow for this customization philosophy. 

It seems a shame to have created such a beautiful gameworld if there are few gameplay mechanics that entices the player to explore without harsh penalties upon losing their way or falling down a hole. 🙄

 

Thanks for creating an amazing game, I look forward to seeing more from the developer.

Thanks. 😺😎

 

 

Edited by jimmy trouser
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It's time to keep this old thread alive!

I like what I've seen mentioned a few times here and on discord with slightly random spawn points, here's how I imagine it (of course it'd all be an option since not everyone would enjoy this perhaps):

-- Death puts you somewhere random, could be close or very far from your previous stuff. Probably would be a good idea to have a max distance from your set-spawn point or the last house visited/bed slept in or something idk, but it'd still be potentially pretty far away.

-- Your items don't despawn (maybe food rots but idk), but your mini-map is reset so you have no idea how far you are / where your old house is. You have to explore to find it!

-- Once you find your dead body/grave/whatever you get back all your items and old waypoints/mini-map exploration, you found your "old map"!

The reason I think this could be fun for some people is that it makes death scary as it is a setback, however it isn't a permanent one. If you like to explore a lot, you might even recognize where you spawned, making it much easier to find your way home! Also, I just like the idea of "restarting" temporarily with low-tier equipment while looking for your old base. It kinda puts the whole survival aspect back into play when your farms/armor/tools are out there somewhere, but you don't know how to get back (yet). 

One potential problem with this however is spawning in bad locations (desert), but that's only a problem if there's no inherent way to survive in most biomes. Another problem is large servers would probably want this turned off/edited in some way, since it'd eat up all the flint/obsidian within a large radius of towns and make it harder to survive at low-tier for lack of resources.

The "dark souls" style respawning (no time-limit, but dying again makes your old grave/stuff despawn if you didn't get it back before then) is also a fun idea, if they were both optional some people could combine them and it'd make it pretty tense and fun to try to survive in a new location without dying. Just my 2 cents, could be a fun mod idea even if it's not in vanilla.

Edited by 321BoltsOfLightning
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On 4/18/2017 at 9:08 PM, Saraty said:

Im personally most fond of classical MC way of death punishment, including item scatter thing and 5 minute timer... :D

But the 5mins only count as long as the chunks are loaded, else the items stay forever, or better until someone kills all item entities on the ground via command (because sometimes it just needs to be done *glaring at all the technical players building farms without any overflowprotection*).

 

To be honest, most of the time I use keep inventory, the MC dp isn't good for VS atm, as you need way more time to get to the stuff and you'll most likely will have to face the things that caused your demise when you get there.

A gravestone/corpse that can be lootet later will be better, even though i think food should spoil at least at a rate of x1.1, and depending on the difficulty tools might get damaged once (maybe by a random amount, lets say 0-10% of the remaining durability, with a minimum of 1 point). Would be good if a waypoint would be added automatically to the deceased players map, but anyone should be able to loot the body?

Edited by Hal13
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Just speaking of hardcore death punishment. Me and my fellas are playing VS at Saturdays and Sundays. And I've made a death punishment mod specifically for it. On one setting it bans the player form server in other it makes him a spectator till the rest of the day's round. Unfortunately due to API limitations I couldn't do it the proper way. 

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