Jump to content

Lanterns, How should we make them? What metals and resources to use?


tony Liberatto

Recommended Posts

Yea I thought about it too. Making use of colored glass would be cool. However, if we do that, we would need to turn lantern into an entity and not a block (because with current amount of lanterns we are already using about 110 block ID's.) If lanterns are entities, we can have infinite amount of variations, but that will cost us extra memory and CPU if their count in loaded chunk is large.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lanterns shouldn't use more than a single bar, consider then a hammer or pick or whatever takes a single bar, how heavy would a lantern made of 4 hammers be? xD

I've been thinking about the relation between ingot-plate- and sheet. Just looking at the dimention of the actual block an ingot is 2 voxels high, 3 wide, and 7 long, a plate is 9x9 but one voxel high.  Just by volume a plate should be 2 ingots. Now a sheet is 16x16 voxels and also 1 voxel high. So it should be 2 plates joined together.....

However theres a problem with this. Thinking mechanically a sheet should be very thin, a plate somewhat thicker and an ingot is literally a big chunk of material simply for transporting.

For the sake of being a game I'm willing to accept that our ingots which would actually weigh 50 kilos (100 pounds) only provide a kilo, maybe half that.

A steel sheet a meter square thats 1.5 mm thick (close to an oil drum) would weigh 12 kg. Lets say 8 kilos.

A plate is close to half the size of a sheet, say 4 plates make a sheet, 2 bars to a plate?

I'm seriously over thinking all this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Saraty said:

... with current amount of lanterns we are already using about 110 block ID's. ...

Oh, interesting.

Full Feature List -> Engine says: "32 block range colored light sources with 16.384 different colors".
I thought that describes future crafting abilities, at least for light sources and even maybe for colored glass, clothing, etc. E.g using some painting station to select RGB code(s).

E.g. a color is coded in some NBT data added to block. So the block is always the same, e.g. brass lantern, but the color of glass/candle/lighting is defined by additional custom properties, initialized when crafting.

Anyway, I don't know much about this block/entity/NBT stuff. I believe you guys gonna do the best possible variant :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, heptagonrus said:

Engine says: "32 block range colored light sources with 16.384 different colors".
I thought that describes future crafting abilities, at least for light sources and even maybe for colored glass, clothing, etc

Yep, it's correct. If we turn lantern into the entity it won't use block ID's so it becomes possible to use extreme amount of colors. If I understood it correctly - it would only slow down the game if few thousand lanterns would be placed in loaded chunks. But now I will let @Tyron answer your comment. ^_^

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Saraty said:

 What if more then 1 candle can be placed in 1 block? Lets say up to 9? Not only that it would look beautiful, but player would also not need to spam candles all over in order to light up the base (considering that each candle ups the brightness if placed in the same block)

That would be really neat, visually, if they have varying heights to create variety and drama.  It would be great for moody altar settings:

  image.png.a7367d0c1c5066ef60aee745b9c57adc.png

Are candles planned to be permanent light sources?  Colored versions of candles should be easier right?  Since they'll probably only go on horizontal surfaces, and don't have any other material variants to deal with?  Unless there's metallic candle holders I guess...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, and forgot to mention, @Saraty, silver and gold lanterns look great!  I agree they probably don't need an extra mirror piece.  Except that if lanterns end up only taking 1 ingot, the silvered mirror piece becomes cosmetic, because then you could just make a silver lamp with the ingot you would have used on the mirror.  I really think lanterns should take more than one ingot.  I think if plates take 2 ingots, and 2 plates to make a lantern for a total cost of 4, that makes them an event.   It might give more tech space in the game for fat bowls and candles and other  light sources to be useful, rather than the player just immediately moving to lanterns entirely when they get some extra copper, and only using other stuff for 'scenery'. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, heptagonrus said:

Oh, interesting.

Full Feature List -> Engine says: "32 block range colored light sources with 16.384 different colors".
I thought that describes future crafting abilities, at least for light sources and even maybe for colored glass, clothing, etc. E.g using some painting station to select RGB code(s).

E.g. a color is coded in some NBT data added to block. So the block is always the same, e.g. brass lantern, but the color of glass/candle/lighting is defined by additional custom properties, initialized when crafting.

Anyway, I don't know much about this block/entity/NBT stuff. I believe you guys gonna do the best possible variant :)

That statement in the feature list is somewhat ambiguous. I corrected it now. 16.384 is the total number of possible combinations of 32 brightness levels, 8 saturation levels and 64 different hues. But no, this is not related to the color of a block. This is the color of the light a light source can spread. 

Setting the RGB value of any block, or any side of a block is a trivial task that any modder can implement as block entity (indeed as NBT, but in the case of VintageStory thats called the AttributeTree) and is not limited to 16k colors but the full range of 16.7 billion colors. Reminds me i should probably optimize read access to block entities :D

But no, the engine should have no problem handling like a thousand block entities per chunk, as long as they are not doing something every game tick. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you, RedRam, I really enjoyed working on them. :)

2 plates (4 ingots) is costly, but I personally have no problems with that. In fact I would prefer lanterns to cost extra due to the fact that they are about to become highly decorative in base material and colored lights choice. And I very much agree to what you said about keeping other light sources valued later in game. 

2 hours ago, redram said:

Are candles planned to be permanent light sources?  Colored versions of candles should be easier right?

Yes, candles would be permanent. However, Im not sure I like the colored candle idea in case you are talking about candles emitting actual colored light. Using stained glass in lanterns and letting the light shine through would be more realistic. Or did you mean dying the candles themselves?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see the rush to add a use for lead at this time.  It can be added later.  Primitive batteries, or for use in early industrial age alloys.  Making a lantern from lead poses serious health risks.  Lead exposure is extremely toxic, and heating the lead just speeds up the emission of lead gasses into the air.  I know that lead was used for pipes and other things before it was learned how harmful it was, but do we need to make this game an exact copy of our own flawed history?  

In early pottery, metals were used for color effects.  Much like what TFC introduced at one point.  Lead glazes are commonly used in earthenware, china and porcelain.  If done properly, the lead is sealed inside and the pottery is safe to use.  Probably not really needed game wise, but just an example of a safe and historically accurate use of lead. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Saraty said:

Yes, candles would be permanent. However, Im not sure I like the colored candle idea in case you are talking about candles emitting actual colored light. Using stained glass in lanterns and letting the light shine through would be more realistic. Or did you mean dying the candles themselves?

I was talking about colored light, but I guess it's true that that's not really logical.  Colored candles might still be nice from an aesthetic perspective though, of course, even if the light is always the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/19/2018 at 8:43 AM, redram said:

 

LanternPattern.png.6b10f5cbb9cb3430e0a38bf2148fd327.png

 

 

One more time.

Existing Lantern recipe uses 3 copper ingots and 1 torch.

We would be changing the recipe to require a candle and glass. Also, the ingot would need to be worked on the anvil.  For me, that's already a big increase in cost, after all in game terms cost is equal time spent. How long do we want to make the player invest in the time to make each Lantern?

Also as part of the issue is the fact that Silver and Gold are a lot harder to come about, especially gold that only gives 12.5 units per ore so you need 8 pieces for each ingot.

For me is a question of letting the player make nice buildings and Decorate them with his choice of Lanterns.

Items that have to be made in quantities should not be so time consuming to make or the game risks becoming boring and grindy.

My point is that it's OK to take a long time to make an Armor, because you only need to make one. To properly illuminate a median size house you will need 20 Lanterns.

I also love to build rods and they need to be properly illuminated, so it takes a lot of Lanterns to do that

 

 

 

 

using 2 ingots, but 4 is just too expensive. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.