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Do we need Temporal Storms?


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On 12/14/2020 at 12:54 PM, Mikel Monleón said:

Let me start off by saying I really loved it when the first storm hit. Seeing the land shifting for the first time was a very unique experience, and I very much appreciated it.

But, I feel like the storm, and drifters, are an odd addition to the gameplay experience. Vintage Story seems very focused on hyperrealism. What makes this game so amazing is just how tedious and detailed every process is, and how accurate it represents the development of humanity. Frankly, I've never had such an immersive gaming experience. Having to naturally select animals, fend off wolves, prepare for the winter, it all ties in so well together, it feels like I'm actually living in the time period. 

However, I find the storms and drifters, that element of fantasy very off putting, as if it didn't belong in that world. I imagine if temporal storms did exist, the physics, chemistry, plant and animal life would be very different to real life. I would love to see a game like that, but I don't feel like that's the direction Vintage story is going.

Why not eliminate the storms and fantastical creatures entirely? Focus more on the realism. Perhaps the periodic threat, or challenge to the game, could be having to compete with other NPC humans. Imagine if there were other tribes that could hunt you down, or even kingdoms that could pillage you. 
Perhaps it doesn't have to be entirely void of fantasy, but the drifters seem odd, maybe Vintage Story should take in some inspiration from Witcher III, and base its universe in a more concrete mythology. I don't think it needs it, but if they need some explanation to justify re-spawning, magic is usually the easy way to do it. 

I'm not sure if other people feel this way, but I feel very strongly about this. I love the direction Vintage Story is taking, but I think temporal storms takes away from the immersion.  

I couldn't agree more. I also wish the realism would be a focus in this game too. Everything else kinda seems like "wanna-be-minecraft-zombieinfested-world". After a certain time of playing this game I really feel that Drifters are just annoying because of their moans - but thats it. I love the idea of other tribes, kingdoms or actually generally npc's that are hostile to you with a story or reason behind it .Temporal storms should be actually replaced by heavy weather effects. Also the dangers of that lure around the world should be compesanted by temperature effects, animals, diseases that dwell in this world. The focus should be set to natural enemies rather than mystical, randomly spawning creatures.

Edited by Aluviya
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47 minutes ago, Aluviya said:

"wanna-be-minecraft-zombieinfested-world"

surely you mean: "wanna-be-notchs-infiniminer-clone-zombieinfested-world". ^_^

Joke aside, I'm with you on the more heavy weather effects would be nice side, but why suddenly switching from the idea of a potential eldritch horror survival game to just same old normal survival? You wouldn't need to give the opportunity to travel through over nearly 2times the surface area of earth (comparing the default world here) for normal survival, you don't need to create much lore for a normal survival game and there are not that many survival games (VS included) that get the behavior of animals right. Wolves don't attack big humanoids without provocation (or rabies) for example, they keep their distance, people resemble bears more than prey as long as they don't run away, wolves are not stupid enough to fight bears if not necessary (and bears don't care for wolves as long as there're enough food sources around). Humans already are apex predators, but Seraphs top them in terms of height, stamina, ability to not use tongs to handle stuff that's 1300+°C hot and ability to breath underwater (as off 1.14, will change quite likely).

But before we run in circles down another offtopic rabbithole in this topic, maybe let's keep talking about the storms.

I don't think the storms will leave the default game, as far as i have seen there will only be more stuff added to the temporal site of the game (but it can be toggled off). Therefore influencing the further direction might be easier than trying to force driving back and starting a different route (which could very much mean just no further development). So what's your take on the storms? And why? I mean, yes, you want heavy weather effects, but why shouldn't there be both? And should temporal storms be something hazardous to everything or only to seraphs.

Another idea, temporal storms could be forerunners to severe to extreme weather events, or follow them. some kind of dangerous warning or a second crushing wave after.

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I personally think the Storm and Drifters both add the right amount of personal touch to show that this game is not Minecraft.  Without them both, it feels like a very basic survival sandbox mining game with occasional knapping.  The Drifters serves as Vintage Storys version of Creepers.  They show up eve e ywhere, more active at night, and still manage to get inside your little house, eventhough you didn't want it to spawn there.

Creepers are the face of Minecraft, so I can see Drifters being the face of Vintage Story.  Can you play this game without them around?  Yes, just like you can beat any Pokémon game without Pikachu.  Its an option.

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8 hours ago, l33tmaan said:

I hope drifters eventually become as cool as creepers, because the creeper is legitimately the only Minecraft enemy that is even somewhat creative.

Really? I really dislike the creeper design. It just seems random and out of place.. especially in a world where there are zombies, skeletons and witches. Then again, Minecraft is just pretty chaotic and random, all the more reason why I prefer vintage story.

21 hours ago, Aluviya said:

I couldn't agree more. I also wish the realism would be a focus in this game too. Everything else kinda seems like "wanna-be-minecraft-zombieinfested-world". After a certain time of playing this game I really feel that Drifters are just annoying because of their moans - but thats it. I love the idea of other tribes, kingdoms or actually generally npc's that are hostile to you with a story or reason behind it .Temporal storms should be actually replaced by heavy weather effects. Also the dangers of that lure around the world should be compesanted by temperature effects, animals, diseases that dwell in this world. The focus should be set to natural enemies rather than mystical, randomly spawning creatures.

Finally someone agrees! I was feeling pretty singled out after an overwhelming majority disagreed with me. Generally, I prefer fantasy over realism. But this game actually made me want to see more realism developed. 

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The creeper design is definitely inconsistent with the other minecraft creatures, but an armless 4-legged exploding... thing that moves completely silently is both creepy and induces an appropriate level of fear in the player. You turn around and get blown up by a creeper one time and you'll be afraid of the dark the rest of the time you play MC - to say nothing of one blowing up your precious fortress! I like it from a gameplay perspective, not a visual one. Although I do still kind of like the visual design simply because of how utterly weird it is. 

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Generally I believe the best type of enemy/villain is always a person/creature that has a story behind it, a path full of suffering before they turned into what you identify as "evil" not just hostile by nature. With the difters I can hardly identfy any reason why they attack you - they seem seem somewhat just braindead vermin like creatures - I think the NPC's in this game should add into a specific atmosphere rather then generating just an avoidable "threat" or "scaremoment". Also I disagree with creepers beeing well designed. They just add a "scare" moment for a few secs but this is like the oldest idea ever which you see in every horror movie. I think more frightening is actually an enemy from that you know that it is following you and will eventually face you directly. Look at the mordern horror games. For Minecraft picking the creeper as logo is just having no other creature in the game that is visually unique enough. Also just to mention it here again - you can totally avoid temporal storms by sleeping if not even deactivate by game settings - this discussion for me is personally about the direction we are going to - I think this randomly "mystical-temporal-Storm-psychosis" thing is not leading to the right direction for a survival-sandbox game. I'd rather see heavy weather effects such as storms, or" ice age close" occurences.

Edited by Aluviya
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On 1/6/2021 at 10:06 PM, Aluviya said:

Generally I believe the best type of enemy/villain is always a person/creature that has a story behind it, a path full of suffering before they turned into what you identify as "evil" not just hostile by nature. With the difters I can hardly identfy any reason why they attack you - they seem seem somewhat just braindead vermin like creatures - I think the NPC's in this game should add into a specific atmosphere rather then generating just an avoidable "threat" or "scaremoment". Also I disagree with creepers beeing well designed. They just add a "scare" moment for a few secs but this is like the oldest idea ever which you see in every horror movie. I think more frightening is actually an enemy from that you know that it is following you and will eventually face you directly. Look at the mordern horror games. For Minecraft picking the creeper as logo is just having no other creature in the game that is visually unique enough. Also just to mention it here again - you can totally avoid temporal storms by sleeping if not even deactivate by game settings - this discussion for me is personally about the direction we are going to - I think this randomly "mystical-temporal-Storm-psychosis" thing is not leading to the right direction for a survival-sandbox game. I'd rather see heavy weather effects such as storms, or" ice age close" occurences.

Tbh drifters only attack seraphs (which implies a motivation, we may just not know the exact one yet), and much lore still needs to be discovered by players and/or even implemented. Same with the lore around seraphs. Most lovecraftian elements are still missing. And after all VS is marketed as "wilderness survival sandbox game inspired by lovecraftian horror themes". Drifters could be what became of humans when the rust world consumed the world in the past, until now i think they are better (and their further development less predictable) than having yet another iteration of undead mobs like skeletons and zombies, seemingly most horror games use. Depending on the further lore drifters could have had to follow a path of suffering (not of others but themself) they could be more than the boring old "evil" enemy.

And excessive jumpscares and gore are relative new things that became common to the horror genre only over the last 40 something years, before the good movies mostly created dread by the implication of danger (much more interesting imo) without any actual showing of a monster at all. I'd even pay for seeing a wellmade horror movie using that again in a cinema (I work in one and therefore wouldn't have to pay normally), the modern "horror" movies are simply boring, nearly everytime you can expect a jumpscare there wil be one.

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On 1/8/2021 at 6:40 PM, Rhyagelle said:

Why can't it be hyper realism because it has "monsters" and weird storms? I don't think its a good idea to conflate realism (elements) with non-fantasy/sci-fi. 
 

It can. But the point (at least the one that I was making) is that the monsters and weird storms should also be hyper realistic, with a more concrete attachment to the world and a sense that they belong. Right now, to me, they seem random.

Edited by Mikel Monleón
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5 hours ago, Rhyagelle said:

Random in what sense, as in when/how they happen or that it seems randomly put into the game? I think both would need some time because I'm pretty sure there's a story/lore behind it all. 

That it seems randomly put in the game.

I went into a lot of detail about it in the post. If you want to go down that rabbit hole of replies you're more than welcome to. 😅
Brief summary is that I'd like to see the environment show a closer relationship with the temporal storms. Like, it's not just something out of the blue, but more integrated into the origin of the world (or something like it).
I get the game is still in development, time will tell how it'll turn out... 🤷‍♂️

Edited by Mikel Monleón
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In all honesty, I think the drifters have a lot of potential. In my opinion, they just need to be a bit taller so they can accurately stare into the players soul with there empty socket for a face. As of now they are the most dynamic monster I have seen in a game, for throwing a rock "could make them leave", but it dose not always work. one moment they could be mercilessly attacking you, and the next you can be mercilessly slaughtering them. I do agree that as of right now they feel like pest, but some day, this game will have some giant monsters. 

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