Is current prospecting mechanics (1.5.1.6) satisfactory?

[Tyron]

I thought maybe instead of printing the text into the chatbox, it kinda gives you some sort of way to a colored vertical bar chart on a sign with tiny ore icons depicting what each bar represents. Remotely similar to the "bar chart" on TFC soil fertility, but in 2D. The block info of the sign block could still hold the textual info in the same form as it is written in the chatbox .

Maybe after a successful prospect you get a piece of paper you can stick onto a sign? Or you have to stick in the sign first and right click on it with the prospecting pick, which will make it auto-populate once prospecting is complete. 

And on the prospecting itself, maybe whenever you hold are in a active prospecting session (and hold your propick in hands) it draw a line from your last probe to your current position and the color turns to green when you are at the right distance or something like that. 

At a later point the propick results could still end up in a map?  (Making a map with waypoints and stuff is quite some more work)

[redram]

I think that any in-world sign or graph or whatever mechanic runs into a problem in that the signs may be scattered, and not all visible at once, and I think a lot of players are not good at conceptualizing a large area of distribution in their head.  Also, will you be able to fit 8 bars on a sign?  I've propicked areas with 8 ore samples for sure.  Maybe even 9.  That is all aside from the fact that signs junk up the landscape and tip off rivals.  But if it's an interim solution those things aren't a big deal.  And, all that said, an auto-populating of the sign as an interim solution is definitely an improvement over the current state of affairs.  But I'm not sure it addresses the broader picture, or long-term picture, it's more a QoL improvement, I'd say.

As for the line, is it between the last propick and *my* current position, or the position of the block I'm targetting?  The latter is much more relevant.  But then, if the blocks are in a wall, the line needs to show through the stone or the player won't be able to see it.  Also, I would guess that the distance between picks is not really an ongoing systemic problem.  Once the player learns the rule, I would hope it's easy for them to count 4 blocks.  So again, I'd call that more a QoL fix, rather than systemic. 

I feel like (and those who dislike correct me if I'm wrong) the problem is people don't like vague indications, and then going in caves and finding nothing, or blind mining and finding nothing.  Basically they don't like spending time for nothing.  I also think that many people are simply overwhelmed by having only a probability in a huge volume, vs a TFC-like tool where they KNOW that they're within 12 blocks of the real deal.  That's more motivating than '1 in 1000 of the blocks in this area are what you want'.   I think a lot of new players will come in just expecting it work just like TFC, which it does not, at all, and that's disorienting probably.  I wonder if that might be at all alleviated by simply changing the name so it's not exactly like TFC?  Maybe 'sampling pick' or something?   All of this is why I keep harping on a couple solutions:  Make it less likely the player will come back from a cave without at least a little bit of the ore they wanted, and/or give them a tool that is a more TFC-like direct indicator.  They both seem like relatively more simple fixes, vs maps, although new ore gen will require new worlds obviously.  And caving should be a fun and encouraged thing, imo.  Not an exhausting and frustrating thing.

[tony Liberatto]

6 hours ago, Tyron said:

that would probably require other mechanics to still enforce linear progression through the tech ages, otherwise you could just skip the copper age if you can pick up surface cassiterite pieces.

1

I actually would be in favour of a system that controls tech progression. I would like to have something following the western historical tech progression.

The player should have to achieve Food security before he could start copper age. By food security, I mean to be established with a Farm and animal husbandry. That could be achieved with some Lore. After all, the only thing that prevented early humans to go straight for Iron was Knowledge. Thinking like that we could have a special item that would unlock the use and possibility to mine and make tools of copper. Some other landmark should be achieved before the player can get to Bronze.

I want the Game to be longer, but not just with things to do after Iron. I want each step to be as long as possible. I understand the hard part is how to make this feel natural.

One more thing is about the ores spawning in only certain stone types. That in itself would limit the number of results when prospecting. If bismuthine only spawns in ClayStone, it will not show as a result when prospecting Granite. It also gives the player one more reason to explore and look for different stone types and try to find the ore he is looking for.

Another thing is something that I proposed once in the TFC forum. Is to have certain flowers to grow on the surface when there are ores underground. Read Here: https://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/alan-titchmarsh/280371/Plant-life-shows-its-metal.

I think Ore deposits should be a lot bigger, but also a lot rarer. Making it hard to find, but not so hard to prospect. So if I am looking for Zinc, I will first to find the specific Stone Type, for example, Andesite. Them I will go and look for the vegetation and try to find signs that the zinc is there. Once I find that I will start to prospect to find the center of the vein. Only then I will start to dig.

[Balduranne]

I don't understand how the prospecting mechanic works at all. It gives me a vague information (When I get the pick to work), but I don't know what to do with it.

18 minutes ago, tony Liberatto said:

I actually would be in favour of a system that controls tech progression. I would like to have something following the western historical tech progression.

The player should have to achieve Food security before he could start copper age. By food security, I mean to be established with a Farm and animal husbandry. That could be achieved with some Lore. After all, the only thing that prevented early humans to go straight for Iron was Knowledge. Thinking like that we could have a special item that would unlock the use and possibility to mine and make tools of copper. Some other landmark should be achieved before the player can get to Bronze.

I'm also in favor of delaying the 'copper age'. Right now finding copper seems to be the be all-end all of the game in regards of early progression...  Yet people have used stone & bone tools to make scythes, hoes etc long before metal was commonplace. 

[redram]

@Balduranne Did you happen to read the propick section of the wiki?  If you did and it didn't help, it probably needs to be improved.

The plant thing is all well and good for miscellaneous stuff like lead, salt, sulfur.   But is it really a good idea for bismuth and cassiterite, the two main problems (as I understand it) but also tech gates?  Cassiterite for one, is currently Y limited.  So unless that plant indicates really deep, or the Y limit is changed, it won't be relevant.  As I see it, the copper age is the easy-mode, pick up nuggets off the ground, find a surface vein, exploit it.  Nice and simple for first metal age.  What is the next (and subsequent) age supposed to be about?  Nice and simple again; just find a flower and dig under it?   I would say the more compelling intent is that the character is supposed to go caving and find the stuff.   I could totally see bronze flowers for survive and build though, since it's the easier, more casual mode, as I understand it.

[Balduranne]

19 minutes ago, redram said:

@Balduranne Did you happen to read the propick section of the wiki?  If you did and it didn't help, it probably needs to be improved.

 As I see it, the copper age is the easy-mode, pick up nuggets off the ground, find a surface vein, exploit it.  Nice and simple for first metal age. 

I read it, and all it tells me is that I might as well mine blindly

19 minutes ago, redram said:

 As I see it, the copper age is the easy-mode, pick up nuggets off the ground, find a surface vein, exploit it.  Nice and simple for first metal age. 

If you say so; It shouldn't have to be a race against time though. 

 

 

 

 

[redram]

2 hours ago, Balduranne said:

I read it, and all it tells me is that I might as well mine blindly

The wiki tells you that, or experience in game told you that?  I ask because I can change the wiki; I can't change the game experience.

2 hours ago, Balduranne said:

If you say so; It shouldn't have to be a race against time though.

Which, the stone-->copper transition, or the copper-->bronze transition?   I think stone--> copper has somewhat of a race feel due to the monsters appearing thing, but that's really unrelated to the propick and ore mechanic overall.  There's also the hoe issue and food, but again, it's unrelated to the prospecting situation.   Aside from those I'm not clear what would cause the race feel?  As for my statement on the copper age, that was an observation on how it appears to me the devs intend it to be, not a statement on how I think it should be.   But, I am ok with how it is.  I think the intended feel for the bronze age (and up) is the real issue though.

[Balduranne]

8 hours ago, redram said:

The wiki tells you that, or experience in game told you that?  I ask because I can change the wiki; I can't change the game experience.

Well both, but the wiki describes it in a way that's hard to understand and doesn't seem useful