Search the Community
Showing results for tags 'npcs'.
POINT Ever since TFC, Sevtech and other tech-age-traversing mods, I was really bugged by these 2 things: No story or overarching goal, no direction; no-one to compete with, no-one to share/compare the progress with, no-one to learn or to steal from; => no motivation to do anything beyond hording and acquiring new-whatever. Building new stuff for the sake of building newer stuff, while fun for a-while, eventually gets boring and the feeling of all-is-pointless starts to prevail. I was trying to reflect onto whats and whys --- what exactly is missing from vanilla minecraft, or these great mods, that makes me feel this way, and I think the answer is fairly simple: the emptiness comes from a sad realization that whatever goal you choose for yourself there's no-one in the entire game-world who could appreciate it (and/or your struggle to get it). Basically, a conquest game starts to feel shallow, when immersion is broken by actors not being able to achieve (to compete to achieve) things you want, --- or in other words, when there's no economy simulation going on (no shared vision of goals and what they cost). While you could find very interesting proofs of concept like Millénaire, the cohesive world generation is another thing. It always felt wrong the game (minecraft in this case) generates terrain on the fly in a non-cohesive random and messy way. We have villages, but where are all the roads? Where the travelers, convoys, caravans and such? What would it cost to pre-generate meta-layers of the world, like climate-zones, habitable and non-habitable zones, roads and towns (just relative positions with no geometry what-so-ever) and actually generate the geometry and actors when the player gets there (while still being able to reason about them even if they wont)? The closest successful world-gen with roads I can think of is Lost Cities, but I'm not sure whether it achieves that via meta-layers, or it's just very clever reflective, but still random, world-gen. * Basically, the conquest game like minecraft seem to have no vision on how to scale its gameplay beyond hording. One could argue, that multiplayer is the ultimate answer to these issues, but the counter-argument to that would be in acknowledgement that every player in a multiplayer-setting would have to force themselves to consolidate with other players in order to form competitive economies --- and for those to form you would still need some kind motivators (something extremely rare and useful? something to transcend to prestige and reputation?)... and there's no telling how many players do you need before the overall economic struggle would seem sustaining? EXAMPLE Like, did it ever bugged you, that in order to progress through the tech-age-traversing mods (or even in vanilla minecraft/terraria and such) you have to deal with menus, upon menus, upon menus to find all the recipes you able to craft from an item, to find the entity you have to craft them with, to find a pattern in which you have to lay the items you have, only for the cycle to continue anew with each new shiny thing you'll get. Sometimes it feels like you spend most of your time in the crafting menus or on Wikipedia, rather than in the actual game. Even doing the most basic stuff (like finding and cooking food, or forging metals) could be challenging because how particular and obscure the recipes/block-behaviors are. Wouldn't it be way cooler and way more approachable if a game-world had an entity you could simply observe to learn all the mechanics from? An entity with the same'ish goals and restrictions you could could compete or live along with? It doesn't have to be sophisticated, it simply have to be somewhat aware. QUESTION What's the VintageStory stance on this? Would we be able to expect these issues being addressed in some near future and in what way? I know there's some kind of story in VS and villages are one the road-map, but what exactly you envision for you product so far? DISCUSSION What do you people think of this? Is this the direction you want to see VS go? ====== Thank you, VS-team, great product so far! Cheers,
Vintage Story covering implemented and unimplemented features taken from the roadmap. Vintage Story, as planned, is a progression farming simulator. It doesn’t have much focus on combat both in terms of a combat system and combatants. It isn’t really a survival game because the player doesn’t overcome a lot of environmental dangers. There’s hunger, fall damage, and … beasts? It does have a tech progression and different ways of getting enough to eat. There are even difficulties such as soil depletion to make farming more difficult. There’s nothing wrong with being a progression based farming simulator, however, some things like a dungeon boss don’t quite fit with that theme. Here are some suggestions that I think will make Vintage Story better. Abstract the NPCs in Vintage Story from creatures IRL. Don’t add oceans for a long long time. Stretch progression from stone age to the age of steam. Turn Vintage Story into a Progression City builder by adding humanoid NPC’s. At this point I assume people know what the uncanny valley is, and if you don’t, look it up. Basically the more something looks like a real-life animal, the more it is expected to behave like a real-life animal. By abstracting the creatures in a video game, you relax those expectations. Something that looks exactly like a chicken, people expect to behave exactly like a chicken. Something that looks kind of like a chicken, people will expect to sort of act like a chicken. This cuts down on disappointment from failed expectations and cuts down on criticism. There are many ways to create geological separations and oceans are one of the more difficult ones. They take a number of creatures, plants, biomes, transportation, and mechanics. Oceans have so much stuff they can be games on their own. It’s much better to add vast barren sand dunes than large empty oceans if the goal is to separate things by distance. Starting at the stone age and progressing to the age of steam makes for a great core. Starting with the stone age is important because it helps to keep things simple at the start. Stopping at the age of steam is good because it gives modders a great place to take off for creating end game content. They could go steampunk, heavy automation, etc. Don’t have to worry as much about balance if the mod is intended for endgame as well. To pull this off though, each age needs plenty to do. Farming, herding, and building was done way before metal and would be good things to focus on in the stone age. Players will naturally work toward metal production because that’s what they are use to doing. To extend the ages this needs to be slowed down by making mining and refining more difficult. There are many ways to do this from environmental hazards to transportation. Each age should also upgrade existing technologies, not completely replace. Bronze and steel cut through flesh and blood equally as well. A progression city builder encompasses many elements already in the game but expands on it in a well-rounded way. Villages have farming, smiths, combat, and trade. The idea would be to start humanoid NPCs out as a hindrance to the player and by the age of steam, a necessary ally. The reason for them to be humanoids but not necessarily anything we are familiar with is for the reason stated above about abstraction. These NPC’s would provide the player with a lively environment, potential allies/enemies, job flexibility, source of goals, competition, difficulty options, and resource consumers. At the beginning, the NPCs would have basic gather behaviors. They would run around eating whatever they could find during the day and huddle up at night. As time progresses they develop hunter behaviors where they will group up to start hunting down animals. During this time they might also construct tents. Next development would be to start planting crops in the general area. Not really farms per say but expanding the food plants in the general area. Over time those would turn into farm and villages. Villages would start developing professions. Villages might have a chance to get into conflict with other villages. The villages would expand fracture and eventually turn into towns. I know that sounds like a lot of work, and it is, but you’d be surprised how complex systems develop from simplistic behaviors. The player would not be able to interact with the NPCs at first. They would be competing with the player over food. As the NPCs developed the player would be able to start trading a limited amount of goods. When the NPC’s develop tribes the player would then be able to start earning reputation. This would be done through successful trading and killing tribe enemies within sight of a tribesman. As professions develop the player can start performing tasks for those NPCs. A shaman may need medical herbs or a chieftain might want a hunting trophy, etc. At the same time if the player didn’t want to do something they could trade for the goods. The village would adapt to the player based on the village needs. For instance, if the player was always trading them wood, the village might not have any lumberjacks because that need is fulfilled already. Though if the player kept the price of wood too high for too long a villager may turn into a lumberjack and start a tree farm. None of this could be possible without time-based approach. Meaning like in TFC if you wander off and come back later, the crops will have progressed. It also means a lot of background calculations. When the player comes back should this still be wilderness or a town? What should various creature populations be? Etc. This doesn’t work so well with ways to speed up or slow down time like beds. Beds are in my opinion one of the worst things that happened to Minecraft. They remove the challenge of the night, they cause player conflict when some people want to sleep and others don’t. In TFC servers they make predicting how much time will pass when you log back on a server impossible leading to ruined crops. Minecraft would be much better off if the fast-forward function of them were removed and they added more things to do at night. Anyway, at this point this is long enough half won’t read all of it and if it gets too much longer no one will read it so please leave some feedback.