Prin

On 1/11/2021 at 8:16 AM, Kerrech said:

I have come across a journal by panning bony soil, that tells how someone was trapped for years underground, not eating, digging bit by bit with their fingers... and once they reach the surface, they are physically "broken" : legs and fingers missing, no skin in places.... after reading this I couldn't help associating this with Drifters.

I found that same entry you're talking about. It made me think similar. Going off of a couple of other journal entries I've found, my thoughts are more that a strange plague of some sort came first and, in trying to defeat or escape it, the ancestors somehow doomed themselves to becoming the drifters. They can't stand light anymore - it causes them pain, so they break down and cry at times when they see it. They used to rely on the bells to alert them to things deep in the mines where they were digging, and the bells are still around and still ring when there's someone intruding.

I'm more curious about who we are. I've seen the term Seraph used here, but I haven't seen it in game yet. Based on the notes found on some clothing items, we appear to have memory or at least an understanding of life before. What are we? Who on an individual basis is left for us to decide, but what we are feels more strange. If we survived unharmed from the corruptibility of the temporal instability where the ancestors didn't, why? How? We're taller than the average trader and taller than drifters, too. We're not pale like the traders, but skin doesn't seem to be a factor, nor height, because the traders seem to be fine as well. It's more than just us who survived, but the ones that did are so few. A genetic adaptation of some sort, to be sure, because for all of this we don't seem to suffer much from the continued instability, so long as we don't linger.

But maybe that's the difference? The survivors didn't linger in the instability, and the drifters did. Everyone was ordered to go into the mines, but there were some that either broke the rules, were thrown out of the mines, or stayed above to protect the rest from something on the surface. What was on the surface that was so horrible that the mines were considered a refuge?

3 hours ago, Hal13 said:

Tbh, apart from cold regions, only a bed is sufficient, or isn't it?

But yes, a tent would be great.

I mean, technically, I guess. Maybe I'm a super coward, but the idea of open air to anything spawning in the night while I'm asleep puts off.

But, if we're talking about tents, I don't know how much I would trust some oiled canvas to keep me safe from drifters, who already like trying to phase through doors to reach you.

I could see this idea expanded further and have maybe something like poltergeists or some other brand of malevolent/restless spirit. They could move objects - throw rocks at you, for example - or move objects in your toolbar - like put your light source away, or even put it out. It could also potentially hint at lore with indistinct voices. Perhaps, because they aren't technically alive, you can't kill them either, but maybe have them guard things of high value so you have to ignore them while you loot the place. 

15 hours ago, Hal13 said:

But so was milling grain. i mean sure there were some kind of windmills since babylonian times (i think for pumping water), but waterwheel powered mills were invented only around 300bc and the big windmills we know today came up only around 900ad.

And coke ovens came up around 1600ad, at least if we ignore china using coke since around 1100ad to make steel, and they're already in the game, I'd say implementing an automated loom should not be a matter of age of technology, the method of steel making used in game seems to be even more modern.

Excellent points, and very valid.

There have been all sorts of grain milling tools used before the invention of windmills/waterwheels. While they were manual, they weren't necessarily all day jobs, though one can also argue that they weren't milling on large enough scale to really warrant it. Saddle style querns were in use from all the way back in the Neolithic age in China, so that's not such a hard thing to see in terms of technology progression. It makes sense.

So, I think we agree, coke ovens are a late arrival in terms of technological advancement, both in game and in history. They're also pretty well gated in the game, you need iron first, for example and you can't get iron without having procured bronze; also need a pulveriser to make the bricks. To me it makes sense for a fully automated loom to be likewise gated, because it would require some very precise machinery. As far as steel goes, there is a historical grey area. The person generally credited with its invention did so in the 1800s; around the same time as the automated loom. However, the earliest known production of steel was actually found in pieces of ironware in Anatolia and are almost 4,000 years old, dating from 1800 BC. It really depends on where you want to turn to for your historical sources. With this detail, I would argue could be less gated than it is, but that's me.

Ultimately, once all the tools and tech necessary to make something becomes available, people would just do so. So, I guess it's really a moot point. People going to progress however they can within the limits of gated tech, and that's really something to be decided by the developers.

16 minutes ago, Hal13 said:

Potentially you'd have to dye some kind of twine and use that to craft stuff?

Then maybe, comparable to the helvehammer, weaving could be automated.

I'm always in for more automation of tedious processes. I'd love to see simple production lines later on...

For most textile applications, you're right, but there's still the odd one that works a bit more like painting on a canvas, silk screening only with dyes, if you will.

Automation of weaving was, in terms of European history, something that happened in the first industrial revolution - so circa 1700-1800s, to be generous. Before that, looms were basically people-powered, and was one of the few industries that was largely operated by women. Very literally, before the industrial age, someone could spend hours in front of a loom passing a shuttle back and forth and only have a couple of inches of progress by the end of the day. Setting one of these more advanced looms up was not an easy business, either; just running the threads through the loom itself to get it ready to use took hours. It literally came down to running several metres/yards of thread through each hole and then wrapping these neatly around a dowel that made it reasonable - it meant that they could set one up and have it in operation for weeks before they would run out of weaving space. Manual looms have been around for almost forever, some of the oldest style looms dated back to something like 500-600 BC and were basically just a standing wood frame with strings running top to bottom that people wove bits of fibre between. Arguably, these would have been much more limited, unable to hold projects that were very big.

And don't even get me started on the actual process for making the thread. That was another job that was manual only for a very long time, too.

I think the gathering of materials to make the dyes would be the most tedious. Once you have those, the actual dying process isn't so bad. With a brush and frame, someone can paint designs onto silk with limited bleeding in the real world, though the colours are - IMHO - arguably more muted in that process.

The biggest thing is considering the purpose for making things in bulk quantities - perhaps for a big payout from traders, but I feel like the potential for it to come up as rarer for that reason. Home customisation would be another good reason, not least for the banners, but for things like warmer bedding and curtains to keep your home warmer/cooler depending on the time of the year. Also, ways of cheaply making storage containers for bulk items - bags for grain, for example. Some of these wouldn't necessarily need to be dyed, but we could also look at the dying process as another kind of lock system; something coloured with a player's "mark", for example, could be restricted in such a way that no one who isn't said player can move it.

May the Vintarian gods protect you, sweet summer child. LOL

All joking aside, it does get easier once you've got your base established. I tend to play with my 6 year old helping with the controls, because I'm a masochist, I guess. But, if we can manage it, you'll get through it eventually. A couple of big life savers that people take for granted that newbies don't realise:

if you hold down the shift/crouch key, you can quickly put away/take out items from containers or dead animals. Also, pressing escape will close all the open windows so that you can run quickly if there's trouble.

On 3/10/2021 at 2:31 PM, Hal13 said:

only thing is: you might need to backup and copy the worlds, or play on a server.

Alternatively, dedicate one computer to one world, and another computer to play in the other.

3 hours ago, ReGristy said:

when they update the inventory system they should think about adding durability to them as well i mean we got clothing that needs to be repaired now. if the durability gets low maybe there is a chanshe that items will fall out if the inventory.
but you need a good balence here with the repaire funktion if you need to repaire it to ofen it will just get anoying and not a fell like a nice gameplay feature.

i like the specelised bags for diffrent usege idea 

Your idea of items having a chance to fall out is both amazing and terrifying to me. LOL Maybe if there was a hit-points bar on the bags, so you could better see their condition, it wouldn't be so bad - at least then you know what kind of risk you're taking. That said, I can see how it might be a bit hard to implement; you'd have to figure out how the item looses durability - would it just wear out over time, even if it is just being worn and not used? Or, is it taking damage from putting items into it - if so, do certain items cause more damage than others?

Hopefully there will come an option to customise and/or create textiles. Should something along those lines becomes available, it wouldn't be hard to add a micro-colouring feature that would allow for things like customised banners. 

On 3/6/2021 at 9:07 AM, Craluminum said:

Try something like that

Did... did you chisel out a panic room? I mean, I'm impressed, but maaaannnn.

I've had similar theories based off of what I could glean from stuff in-game, but it's more or less unconfirmed conjecture as far as I know. The how/why of drifters feels a bit of a chicken vs. egg story. But my understanding of it feels incomplete.

In any case, any large underwater beast could fit the bill, if that's the route they want to go. I'd even consider piranhas, which could also double as an underwater mob that would function similar to the bees.

22 hours ago, Saricane said:

I totally agree with maple syrup production chain. As soon as I saw maples, I thought syrup.

LOL, I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw one and was all, "Ima tap that."

15 hours ago, l33tmaan said:

Personally, I think corrupted wildlife would be a great addition at some point. Seeing bunnies and wolves with gears growing out of them would be a good way to signal lands that are temporally unstable. Eels could just be a part of that.

I think the only real limiter on that would be the storyline of the game. Given that the most messed up looking mobs so far in the game are found in the caves or spawning during storms, I don't know if it would make sense for the otherwise basic looking animals to go corrupt. This is one of those, we'll have to see where Tyrone takes it.

True, they would, plus we could have the laugh at goat-physics, mountain goats make it their life missions to climb things they have no business climbing. Straight vertical wall? LOLZZ Yaasss.

Though, something else I'd like to see are alpacas or llamas, for similar reasons, plus the fact that they're less commonly seen in fantasy.

You know, I'll argue against that no-meat. Eels can and are eaten in some places in the world, jellied eels is a traditional food of England, for example, as there was a time when eels would swim en masse up the river Themes and eating them seemed like the most natural solution. That said, you're not going to get much fat from an eel, depending on the season - winter eels, for example, would have the most, but summer eels would have the least because they would have used those fat stores up to survive the winter and wouldn't have had much time to build them up again.

That said, it depends on how big you want these eels to be. If they're big enough to eat a person, they're absolutely big enough to be eaten by a person cut into steaks.

A secondary option, beyond eels, make aquatic snakes? This would mean they could chase someone onto land to a degree as well.

19 hours ago, Thalius said:

You would need some form of resource that could be spun on such things. Wool would be a natural choice. Cotton or even silk worms for a warmer climate/specialty fabric resource if they wanted to get fancy.

I guess you could just use flax fibers, but if you are going to add all of those things for weaving/spinning and such, may as well add other options to work with as well.

It would be fun though, for those that enjoy such things.

 

Oh, for sure, and there's a ton of options people could have in fibres if they really wanted to go wild with it - it might even be worth expanding the idea to include specific qualities or use only certain fibre types in certain recipes. I can't speak for all fans of textile art, but I would cringe from the depths of my soul if someone used worm silk to make sacks for holding grain or flour. 

21 hours ago, l33tmaan said:

What is "pig food"? I thought the whole point of raising pigs is that you can feed them almost anything?
Goats when?

I mean, technically, I think a more traditional term might be "slop". That said, while they can and will eat just about anything, one can argue that they probably shouldn't, for their overall health and wellbeing. Sorry, I think I must have miss-recalled the name of the beast - I'm talking about the rams/ewes - they didn't strike me as being very sheep-like, so my brain automatically identifies them as goats.

On 1/20/2021 at 9:27 PM, redram said:

iirc there actually is also a texture for 'mixed grains'.  Not mixed vegetables yet though, afaik.

That sounds pretty cool. A possible vanilla resolution, though, that I would like to see is the ability to craft pig food or goat meal, which could then be put into the troughs.

I'm bumping this, because I love this idea. Other things to consider would be a method where resin farms might be made, rather than relying on hoping to find the odd pine tree - while I understand why it's that way, it's not very realistic.

Might be worth checking to see if there is an update to the mod in question, it might be because it's not fully compatible with the most recent update. I can't be 100% on that, but it's my best guess.

I know that some people would like to make their own outfits, or at least customise what they have, and one of the goals of vintage story is to incorporate realistic survival/era progression. In keeping with this, I'd like to see card-weavers which could produces belts or trim to decorate clothing, drop-spindles were also a very early form of spinning and were used to make thread and yarn. A basic loom would also be nice, but that would be something that could be gated - you would need the saw for sure and probably steel to make the metal hooks which thread would need to be run through; alternatively, it could be susceptible to wear and tear and would need to be replaced after awhile.

On 1/23/2021 at 2:26 AM, AngryRob said:

Not if you craft multiples, or even a higher tier portable one. 

Also, maybe mob behavior should change? after all animals freak out when tornados hit, so seeing panicked mobs before a storm, as well as increased drifter aggression and wondering. 

Ohh, I like this idea. There could also be other visible or audible signs as well - static cracking in the air where there's nothing visible, or flickering screen in and out of the red world when it's immanent.