Teh Pizza Lady

I don't like the idea because it makes farming, which is a core mechanic of the game, more difficult than it already is for a single player to manage while trying to do the other 2364827634 things (exaggeration but you get the idea... lol) that have to be done before the first winter. Plus the time sink of tending to crops to make sure disease doesn't wipe them all out discourages exploration and adventure which is another core mechanic of the game. Sometimes you have to be away from your base for weeks at a time just to go to the places, do the things, and come back. I wouldn't enjoy the adventure if I were being forced to constantly worry if my crops would even be alive when I got back.... Thus I believe it would hurt the game's design overall and would be better relegated to a mod. I've said this before... but it was a while go so I don't fault anyone for forgetting, but my stance has always been the same. If it flies in the face of established lore or would upset the balance of existing game mechanics then it would be better served as a mod. In fact, this idea is already part of a mod, which unfortunately doesn't have many downloads, so I don't really think I'm the voice of the minority here. I'm sorry, but that's just how it is unless you have proof that people outside this thread would love it.

I feel like that is a prerequisite for suggesting something be added to the base game.

out of curiosity, I looked on the ModDB and there is already a mod that does this and it's not very popular. Only just over a thousand downloads which is like.. 1% compared to the other farming mods. I don't think this idea is very popular and if you REALLY think it would be, you're not selling it well at all.

I still have a problem with the whole "growing rust" thing because rust is <spoiler> and because of that <spoiler from Chapter 2> and <another spoiler>. Call it blight, or whatever, but rust is a very specific thing in the lore and what you're suggesting makes zero sense whatsoever.

Seems to be an early game accessible mechanic for new players! and cures aren't the only thing that can help your crops. Proper watering and good soil (which is already in the game) play a part in the health of the crop! Maybe we can suggest another early game method for starting players to combat the disease? I don't like this response because diatomaceous earth doesn't work that way. It is composed of the fossilized remains of diatoms, which are microscopic algae with silica-based cell walls. The structure of diatomaceous earth is highly porous, making it excellent for absorbing oils and other non-water liquids. However, it is not hydrophilic and will not readily absorb water. In wet conditions, diatomaceous earth tends to clump together rather than soak up the moisture, which reduces its effectiveness for purposes like pest control. My mother found this out the hard way one time when she spilled some on the floor and tried to vacuum it up with our Rainbow vacuum which uses a reservoir of water like a high-powered bong to filter dirt out of the air. It clumped and then the clumps burst open and filled the internal workings of the vacuum with the dust which wore away and broke down all the seals on the bearings. It burned itself up in about 3 weeks of regular use. Diatomaceous earth can be used for pest control, but only because it is composed of razor-sharp silica particles which scratch the cuticle of an insect's exoskeleton causing them to leak moisture and die of dehydration. My counter for crop diseases is to destroy the crop, but what's to prevent another plant from getting sick outside of lucky RNG? Again, it seems too punishing for no reason.

I believe my point was clear and remains valid. If you want to be less abrasive, then you should demonstrate that you're trying to be less abrasive. I notice you’ve sidestepped much of my argument in favor of questioning details or reframing the discussion to fit your own narrative. That’s understandable -- it’s your thread, after all. But if the goal is a collaborative discussion, let’s focus on the broader implications of your suggestions rather than sidestepping critique. Your idea that plants should suffer diseases requiring cures raises significant concerns. How do you propose starting players, who may not have access to cures, should handle this? Is there even a viable counter once diseases set in, or does it simply punish them with no recourse? While a challenging game is great, pushing the "uncompromising wilderness" concept too far risks making farming feel like an unfair grind dictated by RNG. Games should be rewarding and engaging, not frustrating to the point of driving players away. Striking that balance is key to maintaining player interest and satisfaction. So, how do you solve that problem?

It’s clear this is a topic you’re passionate about, but your tone comes across as arrogant and dismissive. It was this arrogant and dismissive tone that got the other thread locked not too long ago. Acting as though others are simply ‘wrong’ or need to ‘swallow the pill’ undermines the collaborative spirit of discussing ideas. The fact is, farming in this game is already challenging and far more nuanced than in any other block games. It’s not just about planting a seed and waiting. You need to account for soil nutrients and moisture, temperature, wild animals, and weather, as well as plan carefully to avoid wasting seeds. Adding random crop diseases would likely make the process too punishing, especially for new players, and could push them away from the game entirely. If your goal is to advocate for a better experience, consider discussing ideas constructively rather than dismissing others' perspectives. In your own words: Maybe you should walk your own talk before you think about bringing something to the table.

Then drop the arrogant attitude when faced with rebuttal from those that disagree with you.

I think for simplicity sake, we should toss out anything that would threaten to alter the existing lore. If you're unsure of the lore, complete Chapter 2....at a bare minimum. So... rifts corrupting plants is out. As far as plant diseases, it should scale with farm sizes, honestly. Otherwise the starting new player might find farming to be too difficult or more difficult than it already is. Even experienced players aren't that interested in mods that make farming harder. I went ahead and looked at the modDB and the only mods I could find that made farming harder had maybe a thousand downloads. Interestingly enough there is a poop mod that has nearly double the downloads. Twice as many people are interested in pooping as there are interested in making farming unnecessarily harder. Even more people liked the pee mod. That should tell you something. Especially since the MAJOR farming overhaul mod (which makes farming easier btw) has over a hundred thousand downloads! Do with that information what you will. Stuff like this just won't be popular or well-received by the majority of players if implemented outside of a mod. Even the other crops thread similar to this one had people saying, "don't wanna poop on your parade, but I hate this idea" (paraphrase).

I would classify most of the foods in your list as "emergency" foods... something you would only consume if you're about to starve. There is also one item you missed which is the Cattail root. It can be cooked over a fire and eaten. The point of these being emergency foods is that you are supposed to seek out better, renewable food sources. The wildlife that you cannot breed only drops bush meat which cannot be cooked except over an open fire and provides very little sustenance. My friends and I joke that it tastes like "not starving". Animals that you can breed produce far better foods. Pigs drop Red Meat, chickens lay eggs and drop chicken and feathers when culled. Similarly, plants that you can cultivate produce better foods, grains produce bread and fibers which can be turned into clothing and sails for boats and windmills. The game all but *requires* you to farm in order to survive, which is why I am baffled by the recent uptick of posts suggesting that farming somehow be made *more* difficult than it already is... baffling. The hunger is oppressive, but perhaps it is a side effect of just being who the player is.

So you not only want to change game mechanics, but alter the lore to fit them as well??? wild...

Actually this is already in a mod https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/23655 It has a blight mechanic that sort of does what OP wants. Also has weeds from the other crops post.

@Facethief yes that is the story spoiler I was referring to because OP hasn't completed the story yet

Without spoiling the story that RMKN hasn't completed yet, suffice it to say that temporal rifts have never been shown to affect anything except the player by lowering temporal stability and spawning mobs if the light level dips too low. That is what I mean by it doesn't fit the lore. Also, if you're going to have rifts affect only crops, then this starts to sound like the other farming thread, which was imo also better suited for mods. Either the rifts need to affect more than just crops (like other plants, and also wildlife), which would make the game unenjoyable for a lot of people, or this needs to be a mod suggestion. My vote is for "mod suggestion" because of how much it would be required to change the existing lore to implement this in a good way and then the effort it would require to re-balance the game after changing a bunch of things for the (imo) worse.

This would be interesting but it doesn't fit the lore. It's better suited to a mod idea.

Perhaps a better question would be, how does this affect the time it takes to do xyz in game (eg. makes it take less time/more time/same if ignored but gives better rewards for time investment, etc) Also there is a HUGE time sink known as Chapter 2 so if there is something that's going to require a LOT of time to do properly in the game, then players are going to want to know in advance so they can plan for it, like prepping fields for a long journey (say 30,000 blocks of total travel to just give a ballpark estimate). And yes I know it doesn't resonate with you because you haven't completed the story. And for that reason, I don't think you understand the real implications of what I'm saying.

I think once you've at least finished Chapter 2 of the story, you'll understand why this is here. It's very much needed for those who are serious about the lore. However you may note that I said they *should* be answer not that an answer is required.

The why is usually covered by the client liaison and the business analysts before the programmers are ever even contacted. The why is not needed to make the feature, it *is* however needed to understand the nature of the feature so that adequate documents can be drafted to fulfill the intend of the feature, rather than what the client initially stated. If the client says, "I want a rope swing", then a very simple rope swing will be installed. But if they said, "I want a rope swing because I want to swing over Niagara Falls", then you can hopefully start to understand that this swing isn't going to be hanging from any old tree... Same basic statement, but the scope of the project has changed so much that the bill for the project is now completely unrecognizable as a result of one simple statement that answered the question of "why?".

I keep reading this and I don't think much more needs to be said at this point. What a mic-drop moment.

I can kind of see where you're coming from...? You can make weapons without smithing (casting or lapping is involved instead). You can still eat without clay making, cooking is probably optional since you can just consume wild fruits and veggies directly.. it makes sense I guess, but given how farming is something that I consider to be required for successful gameplay (flax is required to make some types of bandages, sails for the sailboat, and for the windmill) I am still wary of making it too complex for fear of punishing the casual player. Drifter underwear is just too unreliable a source of flax fibers for me to consider it any sort of viable alternative in any capacity without a mod to increase mob loot drops. However... Smithing *IS* required if you want iron or steel weapons and armor for chapter 2. Claymaking *IS* required if you want iron at all or if you want food to last more than a couple of days before having to throw it out. Cooking *IS* required if you want to have food in the winter. By the same logic, farming is required if you want bandages, sails, etc. Not even for the grains category aspect of eating, but just for basic necessities. Any changes to the current farming system just need to make sense. Random crop death doesn't make sense in this game. There needs to be a reason for it. I'm not saying there isn't, just that it needs to be a good reason outside of adjusting things to match personal preference. That is what mods are for. Outside of environmental changes, if something is already balanced, then rebalancing could introduce unnecessary complexity or even disrupt the existing equilibrium, which several have already pointed out could very well be the case. If players are ignoring something, then it suggest a lack of balance, so it should be adjusted. If new content is introduced, then it could upset established systems which might need adjusting. If a QOL improvement is made, it might unbalance something that would need to be fixed. If the game devs' philosophy changes, then it could prompt a rebalance if the game isn't properly reflecting their vision for it. Lacking those things, the rebalancing of farming is basically useless, because as I've stayed before, it's fine the way it is, not overly complex, not boringly easy. It's a bowl of Baby Bear's porridge. These changes threaten to upset the balance, not fix it.

I appreciate you asking instead of just assuming. Adding complexity doesn't necessarily increase fun. It's been pointed out several times by others that realism does not equate fun in a video game. If the game were realistic, then we wouldn't have temporal storms or drifters or anything else, just about. The landscape wouldn't even be blocks. At some point you have to ask yourself if the added complexity has a point and if the point is purely just to make farming *harder* then the complexity exists for the sole purpose of existing. Anything that exists fore the sole purpose of existing is useless and needs to be trimmed out. If you want less crops then plant less crops or something, lol, idk, but forcing players to spend more of their precious time on something means less time spent elsewhere. Less time spent adventuring, less time spent crossing the wastelands to get to chapter locations, less time spent working on other things that desperately need attention like the forges, or proper food storage so the hard work spent in the fields doesn't go to waste! Complexity for complexity's sake is just bad video game design. EDIT: Bear in mind that this is largely intended to be a single player game with everything being able to be accomplished by a single player. So if you want to be a base mom, then go ahead, but you won't get anything else done in the game.

I’ll only respond to this once, as I’m finding it difficult to approach any conversation with you constructively at the current moment. 'Rebalancing' suggests that something is currently unbalanced. If you can demonstrate that’s the case, I’m open to reconsidering my perspective. As it stands, I believe the balance works well for most players and doesn’t require adjustment. Naturally, any suggestions that disrupt already-balanced systems would be viewed as personal preference rather than an objective need for change. Interpreting this as me invalidating your opinion is your own misinterpretation of what was clearly written. Sorry if that offends you. To avoid further misinterpretations of my words, please give my words justice by reading them carefully before responding. I guarantee you, that I meant precisely and only what I said and nothing else. If there are lines between which to read, don't.

or just increased yields overall, reducing the amount of time even needed to farm for things like grains and veggies.

in order for this to work... Those who do NOT play into the suggested systems shouldn't have their gameplay affected negatively. Like with making steel, you can still use tier 1 refractory bricks, but you'll have to replace them very frequently. By putting in the time and effort to make tier 3 bricks you can skip the brick making phase after a while. An increased effort produces an increased reward (time savings. if the player is rewarded with time, then it is still a reward). You still get the same amount of steel, but you can start making more sooner! By not playing into the brick tier system, you are not punished, but playing into it gives a better reward! How would the suggested system reward the players for the increased effort? Again, NOT playing into the system shouldn't impact players negatively in comparison to how the systems work today. In other words, if this was rolled out into the game now, if I change nothing with how my farms are managed, then I should be able to expect the same harvest as before. Increasing my farming effort should increase my reward either by saving me time later, giving me a bigger harvest or something else that is sure to be useful in the game. I appreciate your candor and willingness to discuss this, but these are questions that should have been answered from the first first post... and weren't. If the person suggesting a thing doesn't give all the information, we can't assume they know what they're talking about!

There is a roadmap. Is this what you were looking for? As for how it fits into the game, there should be a number topics that should be answered: 1. How does this improve the game? 2. What, if any, problems/issues does this fix? 3. What are the drawbacks of this? None is not an acceptable answer, just because having no drawbacks means the idea wasn't well-thought out and means the suggester might not be open to discussing the drawbacks of their Super Amazing Awesome Idea! 4. How does this help players manage their time? 5. How does this affect exploration/story progression? 6. Describe, in detail, how this suggestion should work with the current gameplay mechanics. Unsatisfactory answers should be met with rabble-rousing and pitchforks.