Game Nerd
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Posts posted by Game Nerd
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Wwb=web
(I type fast)
I really want improved combat, because the current system is lame.
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https://www.vintagestory.at/roadmap.html/
Tell me the specific thing and why you want it in the comments, vote on the general topic.
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2 hours ago, shockingboring said:
Seeing as I've also encountered this issue almost right after I discovered the game I just want to leave my 2 cents as well. By now I've been just playing alone for weeks... after burning through all my friends and it's really sad to be the only one in my circle that is interested in the game with what it currently provides.
Many players leaving is a huge problem as the game, with its unique classes, is clearly built for multiplayer and requires multiplayer to allow each class to shine.
I don't think it is a lack of crafting or building content that drives the majority of players away after a short while, I don't think it is the complexity of the crafting and refinement processes either.
All of my friends found the crafting and refinement, the generated worlds, the game itself great and really cool but quit because of the same thing:
Some scattered lore you can find is not interesting enough for many players to warrant spending hundreds of hours preparing for it.
Simply surviving for survivals sake is just boring. I disagree with the opinion:
Minecraft profited hugely of being the first wiedely known voxelbased sandbox game when it came out. Vintage Story is not in that position and needs to provide more to survive as a game. The game needs an end goal, or several. Some ideas that come to mind would be:
- Bossfights
- Finding something special (that has some sort of use other than lore)
- Building some kind of final machine
- Some special degree of character progression
- Surviving a predefined timespan (which would kind of require permadeath)
There are several aspects of the game that can appeal to different kinds of players:
- Building
- Exploration
- Survival
- Combat
- Technology
- Mining
- Hunting
- Farming
- Foraging
Ideally there would be endgame-goals which speak to each of those different kinds of people. The goals should also be challenging, rewarding and repeatable.
Aside from having a goal the gameplay itself also needs to be rewarding in each of those areas. The game does a relatively good job at that but some areas are really lacking (combat in general mostly...).
A big part of the game is acquiring knowledge, materials and building structures that allow for progression. From my experience only very few players in a group take the lead on those aspects and feel a sense of accomplishment after reaching a new milestone. for all others, reaching some milestone is only mildly rewarding as they didn't actually take much part in it other than run errands.
To provide those players with a sense of accomplishment I would like to suggest a character based progression system. the simplest way would be exp, levels and stat points or skills with a slight bonus to existing activities or even new actions in addition to what the classes provide. It would be very important that higher levels are desirable and players have to make decisions and cannot have all skills at some point as that would reduce the value of having a team.
With a system like that, or anything comparable, players that can't feel a sense of accomplishment for a milestone they didn't actively take part in would have something of their own to come back to.
I know that having exp, levels and skills/stats is very cliché and might not be what the developers envisioned for the game. however the value it would have for rewarding players should not be underestimated.
The problem with having no character progression is that playing feels useless as you could just simply come back when someone else has built what you need to advance.
Likewise having procedurally generated worlds makes exploration feel useless as there is no real soul in the places you find.
Those problems can be overcome and I would love to see Vintage Story accomplish just that.
So yea. it's not that there isn't enough to do, it's not that it is too complex or too difficult. The game just needs to provide incentive to play and advance as just an extremely small amount of people can deal with a pure sandbox experience.
I need something my friends and I actually want to build that Steelarmor for.
https://boardgamedesignlab.com/skill-barriers-in-games-with-jeff-fraser/
I haven't seen these but board game design lab makes a good podcast, this one is about skill barriors.
I agree with most every thing, but if the game has an end, then you can't play it forever, other then that, great Idea!
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Or maybe the focus should be on discovery
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2 hours ago, Silent Shadow said:
I would say that the game focuses on extraction and building. Take from the environment as you can and use what you get to further your capabilities so you can take more from the environment and thus build more, and on and on. Combat right now is just an obstacle to overcome or a hazard to be wary of.
The main problem with the game is that it stops giving you reasons to build up your capabilities. Once you get a farm going and build a cellar with some pots, you have solved the problem of winter. Once you get bronze weapons and armor you have mostly solved the problem of enemies underground. Iron makes you further protected, but you don't really need it and steel is even worse with its meager return on investment. Since you no longer need to build up anything, why bother exploring for more resources? Once you get rid of the problems of winter and enemies, you have basically won the game and doing anything else is going to be intrinsically driven.
I think the game's options at this point are to either make everything harder, or to add new challenges to overcome.
They could make the player's time more valuable by placing more demands upon it so that a big part of the game would be switching to more investment heavy, but low upkeep, processes and materials. For example a copper tool could lose work speed quickly and thus need to be sharpened often to restore its speed (durability is not affected) but an iron or steel tool would need infrequent sharpening. There could also be better ovens/furnaces for better fuel efficiency, establishing mines via "temporal stabilizers" or something so fewer drifters will interfere while mining, introducing glass blowing with molds to facilitate mass production of containers for food and the like, more machines that can produce power or do work on items (slitting mill? Lathe?), building a fish pond for easy protein (no hides though), establishing a sawmill for faster/more plank production, etc. This way players gain more time to do whatever when they upgrade their stuff and they can feel the momentum building every time they do.
Item upkeep could be another reason to progress. If items break down overtime the player would want to shift to making items that could be made in batches or have more durability, similar to how tools work now. One reason glassware became much cheaper than pottery is because it could be mass produced with molds and pottery cannot, so if pots "wore out" or had a chance to break when handling (perhaps worse in the dark?) it would be good to invest in capital heavy glassware for quick and easy replacements. If buildings also wore out or were damaged by storms, there would be an incentive to make it out of more durable materials like stone blocks or setup a system where weaker materials could be made quickly and easily to replace the damaged parts (this would need a change in the way rooms work so that players would not just live in a carved out cave.)
I can see how a lot of people would not care for these options and would probably just see it as pointless grinding though. As for new challenges I have heard a few suggestions like setting up new dungeons or areas to explore but I feel that would not add much to the game as it would just be a place you go once to see or for bragging rights or you go there to raid for plunder and then never return. People also clamor for better combat but this game has been focusing on crafting for the most part and seeing them switch focus to combat would just make the game be like many of the other survival games on steam like Rust, ARC, or Conan. I think the challenge the game should build up to is rebuilding civilization from the current ruins it is in. Gather surviving people you find in camps or ruins, build a small village, set them up in their assigned tasks like farming, crafting, or guarding. You could setup production chains to outfit them and feed them. Fallout 4 had an interesting, if severely underdeveloped, idea of building settlements to support you in the wasteland, but this game is setup to execute it far better. Since the game is about building and surviving I think that a complete functioning settlement would be the ideal end of the game. I can see how this might be harder to code, but it would truly set Vintage Story apart from other survival crafting games.
That's a good Idea,
I haven't played Rust, ARC, or Conan, but even with better PvE, the game would be different enough, as the survival is mutch better
It would be neat if you could then lead the settlement to war agents a boss, just be sure to make the boss
take longer then 15 minuets,
no be to easy,
not make us fall asleep grinding,
if you fail not to have to start over again,
and in more then one fight
Ideas to solve those are to:
create multiple enemies, and killing enough of them would weaken the big one.
I hope that bringing civilization back isn't impossible to code!
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We should make the combat loop a little bigger, I don't want to just fight things, but a little more would be good.
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On 8/16/2021 at 1:38 PM, Maelstrom said:
What about NPCs that provide a hook? Something like a trader mentions, "A man that sold me some of my wares mentioned he saw some ruins in the mountains north of here." Whether you go or not, doesn't impact ANYTHING thereafter. Show up and there might be a looted ruin, might be some nasties and treasures or something in between.
As long as it is optional, where you don't have to go there to complete the game. The definition of a sandbox game is doing what you want, finding your own objective, if NPC do it for you, I wouldn't like that. If they told you where to go it might be fine, but if you have to come back to them for some reason, it wouldn't be fine.
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On 3/9/2021 at 11:27 PM, ug_windwalker said:
I just read the road map and i was dismayed and disheartened when i read that player progression is planned. In my humble opinion, i think this would be bad. One of the things that drew me to this game was the absence of a system of that locks off the players ability to come in day one and basically do and build what ever they like as long as they can find the materials. I have always thought "skill progression" is the bane of survival game enthusiasts. It's something that is put up with because it seems that every survival game does it to some extent. I understand the logic behind it in being "not everyone knows how to build a fire or shelter" . Well some of us do. Please do not lock the ability to play the game behind artificial barriers called "skills".
I haven't heard it yet, but there a podcast about it.
https://boardgamedesignlab.com/skill-barriers-in-games-with-jeff-fraser/
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On 8/7/2021 at 10:00 PM, Laskuna said:
"More intuitive prospecting" Its ok now i think, maybe only change displayning text, noo need change mechanics in my opinion.
I wish to see some better, bigger dungeons - unserground ( or not ) cities / vaults, forges, weird mechanical not working factories, roads fragments on /and underground.
Will be greate see random generated world history. When player can find some locations names on signs next to ruined roads, about which he read in books.
More NPC's and quests system. In game compass and maps to this dungeons, conneted to this world lore to explore.
More unique objects / locations to explore, not only ruins but also some "nature wonders": volcanoes, canyons, greate flower meadows.
Maybe random lore it's not what game MUST HAVE but more things to explore
I want all of it, aslong as the NPC's don't assign tasks, if they assign tasks, will leave. I don't like games that do it! I want point to sand box, this would add it, but NPC's thats assign tasks would make it no longer sandbox
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On 8/3/2021 at 12:49 PM, caffeine9999 said:
@redram have you guys considered opensourcing the engine (but not assets)? That way you could have some free contributions and focus more on new content. I, for one, would dedicate some time to improve the engine and fix some bugs
Vintage story is built upon the manic digger game enginehttp://manicdigger.github.io/releases/
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On 7/8/2021 at 3:50 PM, BearWrestler said:
The spawning logic is definitely one of the weakest points of this game. There's no way to make a safe building in wolf spawning areas, for instance. Wolves will spawn right into your little hovel, sometimes very close to you. It causes players to avoid wooded areas altogether.
And yeah, the constant spawning in caves is an irritant as well as being immersion-breaking.
Those kind of factors caused my group to abandon survival mode and only play in exploration mode. At least this way the mobs have low agressivity and don't swarm you as much - though we still die to high-level drifters when wearing primitive armor
dig 2x2 pit, get them to peruse you, then jump over the and watch them get stuck forever
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On 3/11/2021 at 5:49 AM, Ari said:
There are already a couple of "skills" in the game tied to the profession you choose at the start. I'm not a fan, personally. For example, there's a type of bow you can craft without flax but only if you chose the right profession at the start of the game, otherwise it's locked off to you forever. These things might make sense on a large multiplayer server but in single player it just means there are things you can never do. However, I'm sure Tyron will take player feedback into account when implementing anything more like that.
I like them, you get advantages to what you spend doing the most
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I think that if I actually defeated the end dragon I would stop playing, as it's lost the reason, to explor would be better, and it would be great if location had it's own progression system, ie:
found a book that direct me to go somewhere
go somewhere and find out more
defeat some mini boss and get some loot.
I don't want it to be:
found a npc that tells me to go somewear
do that
reason being is it would be to far away from a sandbox game, doing something instructed.
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9 minutes ago, Fredrik Blomquist said:
Minecraft did pretty ok without a "purpose". They added the enderdragon later - and sure - i do think Vintage story need some kind of "end". But like in minecraft, it shouldn't be the main thing, you should be able to enjoy the game without "ending it", and you should be able to keep playing even after the end. The point of the game is to survive and craft.
I think the point of the game should be survive, craft, discover/explore to give a reason to keep playing.
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On 8/12/2021 at 10:33 PM, l33tmaan said:
And what do you do in the dungeons?
Fight stuff, I would like it to deal somehow with the fallen civilization
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2 minutes ago, Fredrik Blomquist said:
If you want primarily a PvE-game or PvP-game there are plenty out there - Vintage story is never going to compete in that regard. Dungeon crawling game there are also plenty that can do it better. I don't mind improving combat or dungeons - but i don't see the point in making that the main focus.
What do you think the main focus should be? I think the game lacks goals, another Idea is better/more/harder ruins
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seems the game lacks purpost
another way would be to make better PvP/PvE or make better ruins with monstors, or a better story
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an end of game would solve this, as it would give new purpose to makeing steel. I think it would be better if it was a collection of multiple fights of different creachers to finally get to the end. and mabey the last one you would be killing as many smaller monstors as you can to weakenn the big one.
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and It would be move realistic
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they keep dieing, it's annoying
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I'd like to add a to the wiki, if I could please get editing rights to the wiki
My username is Game Nerd
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Not a scam, you get $2 of humble credit
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I don't like the grind of having to find 40 coper bits on the surface, or go panning. We need to find an alternate way, this one seems good.
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Hope you add a pvp server!
Class balance discussion
in Discussion
Posted
The easy way to fix it would be to takeaway the negative effects of the classes and add to the commenor, as people don't want disadvantages