Crylum Posted July 4, 2025 Report Posted July 4, 2025 (edited) For context This thread discusses new ideas (modification, improvemts, additions) of the current in game water mechanics. Please also see: related water mechnics ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Problem Depending on where players build their base, they may run into the problem that there are not water bodies close by, which can make setting up a farm difficult. Sure, there is a world setting to enable transport water via bucket, but for anyone, who prefer to keep it more realistic, there are currently no alternative options to transport water. Further more even, if you have access to a water source the limited flow range of 6 block can make it tricky to set up bigger fields (without using the bucket of cause). ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Investigation Like already state above, water only flow 6 block (7 if you count the water source block). Looking at the water source block in game you can see that the water level is a bit lover that the the regular full blocks. A block has a height of 16 bits (I used the chisel tool with the smallest size to count it). The S(ource) water block is filled up to 14/16 ~ 7/8, therefore we have 7 different water levels in the game (or 8 level if you count "no water" as well). Suggestion: Wiers & irrigation trenches Adding a new mechanic/block which can extend the max flow range, without breaking/reworking the existing water mechanics. *design: work in progress: wooden weirs, placeable by player * design concept for reinforcement weir with water level control (only decorativ), Darker wood = wet, Lighter wood = try Requirements / Limitations irrigation trenches can be 1 (deep) by 1 (width) by 1-49 (long) 49 block because 7 water level by 7 blocks seamless integration with existing water mechanic ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ How it works Is a createable block which can be place inside flowing water to dam up the water level to the same higth as the source block to extend the water flow range Starting at the source block (water level 7), each following block will stay at the same water level, until it reaches a weir. Once the water passes the weir the water level will decrease by 1, creating a pseudo water soucre behind the wier (this can be reapeat until level reached 1). Weir should preferably be place at the 7th block (counting the source block) to maximize range. But it should be allowed to place them anywhere between block 1-6th block * without weir, base game * with weir - concept dummy ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Open question and problems New system would be way to OP! (see post) Quote @Thorfinn raise this concern: Weirs are a great solution, if maybe a little too good. Off-hand, it seems you could stretch a single-tile mud puddle into a 113 block across, diamond-shaped farm[...] * If you allow branching of directly after the weir @Thorfinn Yes, I agree that is way too much. And for anyone asking, yes of cause I create an image for this: cyan = water green = 75% moisture yellow = 50% moisture red = 25% moisture dark red = out of bound pink = none flowing water source block (in the center) orange lines = weirs As you can see, pure insanity and quite unrealistic, one block (cubic meter) can supply all this farm blocks. Therefore I would suggest that wiers should not be able to branch, so basically you will have a straigth line or snake line: Alternatively, if branching should be allow, reducing the water level by the amount of trenches connected. Instead of decreasing the water level by -1, in this exmple, level will be calculated using floor( 7 / 3 ) = 2 ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ That all I have so far! Edited July 12, 2025 by Crylum Reduced image size 6
Thorfinn Posted July 4, 2025 Report Posted July 4, 2025 Ah, I had imagined that one could tap off the ditch anywhere. Tapping only at weirs is a good limit. Either works fine. The second is particularly appealing from a realism standpoint, though it does mean from your initial puddle, if you turn it into a "+", each leg is only a 1. A 2 if you bump the base extensibility to 8. Unless S is just treated as infinite, like it is in DF. Great idea. I might have to code up a weir block so we can try it out. 1
Thorfinn Posted July 4, 2025 Report Posted July 4, 2025 (edited) OK, so I got started playing with it, and ran into the first question: should the channel be just 7 (or whatever -- configurable) long or is it 7 blocks of that elevation water? Can you cut a notch in the middle of both sides of the ditch, sacrificing a single block of water distance and 75% farmland per side to get 3 50% tiles bumped to 75%, 5 25%s bumped to 50%s, and 6 (I think) 0%s to 25%s per side? [EDIT] I really don't want to mess with the farmland hydration system, so if you can make the ditch after a weir look like "--+--" instead of "-------", I'd like all 7 to become a moisture block, and I don't want to have to hard-code the layout of a ditch. Edited July 4, 2025 by Thorfinn
Crylum Posted July 5, 2025 Author Report Posted July 5, 2025 (edited) Quote 49 block because 7 water level by 7 blocks @Thorfinn Sorry, my bad I forgot to change 49 to 42 blocks, in the intial post. I have tested docents of differnt layouts, water level (bump the base extensibility to 8, like you had suggested) and many more things and noticed that 7 block max range is not ideal (I can send you screenshots of all I tested but this may be overkill and not very interesting). I would like the max water range to be consistant with flowing water range of 6 blocks (base game). This means, we have 7 water levels time 6 block equals 42. The S(ource) block would be the 43th. Also in the base game this is the most optional farm/moisture setup Due to the way our weirs work, we need to aim for something like this: Quote Unless S is just treated as infinite, like it is in DF. Really like your idea that we treated the S as infinite, as is fixes some problems I had while design possible ditch layouts Quote [...] don't [...] mess with the farmland hydration system I fully support this decision, the hydration system should stay as it is. We need to find a way to make the weir compatible with the existing in game mechanics and not the other way around. My aim was to have something, which can be seamless integrated and does not require you (or someone) having to re-writing of half the source code. Quote [...] so if you can make the ditch after a weir look like "--+--" instead of "-------", I'd like all 7 to become a moisture block, and I don't want to have to hard-code the layout of a ditch. Sure, having it like " - - + - - " instead of " - - - - -" should definitly be allowed. We would get this: I think that the layout in the image above, may no be 100% like you invisioned it, but I now get your overall idea with the notches etc. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Anyway, I would like to suggest a small addition to the current way weirs are working, if you are fine with that. As I mentioned I did some research on weir type and how they work. I would like to have two versions, 1st an height adjustable weir and 2nd a siphon weir. * reference: sliding weir - height adjustable| in game, chiseled design idea * siphon weir, how it works in RL ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ How the old ditch setup would work Setup requirements: Max. ditch length is now 6 blocks Only straight ditches (do not worry, I have not forgot about you "- - + - -" idea and the moisture level problem you mentioned, just bare with it for now.) make S infinite, all 4 ditches connceted to is are filled up to the same level as S water level at the weir is still calculated by floor(water level / number of weir). Example: floor(7/3) = 2 Resulting ditch layout: Problem: we have 9 blocks in the center, which will not get irrigated to 75%. Layout it tileable _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ How the new ditch setup would work (using both new weir types, water level at weirs is automtically calculated and not adjustable by player) Setup requirements: Max. ditch length 6 again only straight ditches again S infinite, all 4 ditches, same level as S orange lines = AW (adjustable weir) purple lines = SW (siphon weir) How do both weir work AWs reuse floor(water level / number of weir) SWs can be placed anywhere along the ditch but in the example below, I have placed them at the most optional position (at least I think) unlike AWs they do not extend the water flow at all. once water passes it, not matter which input water level the SWs had recieved water will fall back to the base game water mechanic -> flowing water, max. range 6, with water level slope. OR water gets reduce form x to the lowest (level 1) @Thorfinn which option would you prefere? Water coming out of the SWs cannot be extended. SW do not consum any water, as they are more like "overflow protections" and we just assume that enough water have recently spilled over and that the water in the ditch has not vaporized yet. Resulting ditch layout: light blue with roman numbers = default water after SW _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ How the new ditch setup would work (both weir, but now the water level running though the AWs can be adjusted be the player) @Thorfinn This is just an idea. I would be happy to hear your opinion if this would makes sense gameplay wise and more important, can this even be implemented? Setup requirements: same as shown above Player can now interact with the AWs and manually set the water level, which passes the weir. How do both weir work Water level 7 coming from S two AWs with height level 3 one SW for overflow protection (level 1 or any amount of overflow let) Gameplay mechanic (optional) unlike the old way to calculate the water level - floor(water level / number of weir) - Floor (7/3) = 2 player can decide how much water should run in each direction. No longer floor(water level / number of weir) - Floor (7/3) = 2 but you could split the water stream in: 4 and 3 or 3 and 3 + 1 overflowing in to the SW player needs to be mindful of the water level, if no SW (overflow proection is used) field could be flooded, destroying crop Edited July 12, 2025 by Crylum reduce image size
Thorfinn Posted July 6, 2025 Report Posted July 6, 2025 Anything can be implemented, especially things that cannot exist in reality. Liking where you are going with this. One thing, though. A weir pretty much has to be a block. One could, in theory, create every permutation of enter and exit, and force the player to choose the right one, but I really think it would be better (and easier, I'll be honest) to make it a block, where it, in essence, has a gate everywhere it needs one. This is basically how flowing water works now, so it has the advantage that it's consistent with the game. Could you make it user-settable? Sure, and I can see why that might be useful. But if people thought things like steel production was complicated... Let me think on it. Maybe it won't be as confusing as I'm imagining it.
Crylum Posted July 8, 2025 Author Report Posted July 8, 2025 (edited) @Thorfinn Quote One could, in theory, create every permutation of enter and exit, and force the player to choose the right one Yeah, I am also still trying to figure out a good solution. So one block, hmm. Say, does the wier block need to be exactly one block? Or can is be something like the doors (2 high)? Or can the model exceed it. like shown below? Edited July 24, 2025 by Crylum Reduce image size
Crylum Posted July 24, 2025 Author Report Posted July 24, 2025 (edited) @Thorfinn I have been looking onto how modding for VS works. Process is slow as it is a ton of new stuff I have never seen before (I also had to play hide and seek a couple of time with missing "," in my JSON file, which drove me insane) . But I was able to add one new block to the game, eventually. Also I have been working on the adjustable wier "block/shape"concept: Open tasks: Animation are still missing and the node tree needs to be simplified. Shape need to be importent in game Item behavior and crafting recipe Block variants (allow other metals or wood in crafting?) Create all possible orientations, if not better solution is found Edited July 24, 2025 by Crylum 3
MagpieOAO Posted July 25, 2025 Report Posted July 25, 2025 I'm all for more things involving water to be expanded upon! Also this is a great way to keep the grounded theme of VS rather than a magical supply bucket of infinite water (though I know that can be turned off, there are many ways to 'delete' water even from river and lake sources which should not be possible). 1
Crylum Posted July 26, 2025 Author Report Posted July 26, 2025 (edited) @MagpieOAO Quote a great way to keep the grounded theme of VS rather than a magical supply bucket of infinite water ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣤⣤⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⣿⣿⣿⣷⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣰⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣶⣶⣶⣤⣤⣀⡀⠀⠀ ⠀⣀⣀⣀⣀⡀⠀⢀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡆⠀ ⢰⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣅⠀ ⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠋⠀ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠀⠀ ⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⠋⠀⠀ ⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠙⠿⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠿⠃⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠛⠛⠛⠛⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Status update: *wier metal frame and wooden crossbar, barrier and ajdustment mechanics will follow soon DONE: block/shape need to be importent in game set block orientation based on player view direction shape node tree got simplified IN PROGRESS: implement water overflow protection wier (siphon wier) TODO: [Prio 4] Item behavior and crafting recipe [Prio 4] Block variants (allow other metals or wood in crafting?) [Prio 3] Implement animations and allow player to manually set the water level height (no sure how to do that) [Prio 1] write code which interacts with current in game water mechanics (no sure how to do that, had a look the the API/ documentation and everything looks like rocket sience to me.) TBD: Create all possible wier orientations (blocks), if no better solution is found ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ Edited July 26, 2025 by Crylum
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