Newbie questions (mostly related to my spawn location)

[Max Kaladin]

I hope this is the right spot to ask this.  

I saw someone playing this game on YouTube and wanted to give it a try.  After playing a world for an hour or two, I started a new world with lessons learned.

I created my world with the baseline settings except for a few changes based on a couple of YouTube videos I saw.  I turned off class specific recipes since I’m playing solo, I turned on color map and I changed some setting about not needing glue to pick up clutter or something like that.

Question 1: Is there a key to empty your hand?  I ask because inventory is at a premium and I’ve been trying to keep an empty slot so I can do things like pick berries without having to pick the slot that already has berries in it, but that empty slot tends to fill up when I pick up a tool or something.

Question 2: Given that I used the baseline settings and that appears to be a 97.5% land cover, does that mean I won’t have oceans?  Since creating my world, I have learned that there are sailboats in the game and I suspect I’ll never get to use them.

Question 3:  How do I get a baseline for where I’m at?  The “feel” I get for the area I spawned in is that it’s some sort of high altitude plateau given that I spawned on a mountain, I’ve got mountains on two sides and rugged terrain in every direction I go in, plus few trees, only one tiny pond, it seems windy and the temperature was hovering just above 0C the first day or two I was there.  Plus, I think I saw some sort of snowflakes those first few days, though I’m not sure that’s possible in the game.  How can I tell what altitude I’m at?  I can see the Y coordinate for the area I’m in is around 110-120 with the mountain I spawned on being around 160.  But I have no frame of reference to know if that's high or not.  How can I tell what “latitude” I’m at or biome I'm in?  I presume I’m supposed to be in a temperate environment, but I’m not sure.  I’m kind of worried about what will happen when winter comes.  Am I going to experience more brutal winters than “normal”?  Will I be buried under snow?  (Does snow accumulation even happen in this game?)

Question 4: Related to question 3, how can I find clay more easily?  I gather that this is a common question, so sorry for asking again.  I’ve read that it needs a wet environment and warm enough temperatures.  I’ve had plenty of rain but there is little standing water and the only clay I found was fairly far away when I was at what I think was a lower altitude with more standing water.  I suspect I’m at a higher altitude where I won’t be able to find any clay without significant travel. I've noticed some discolorations on the map where I've found peat but I don't see anything different about the one spot I found clay.  And I suspect I'm going to need a lot of it (for storage pots, if nothing else).  

Question 5:  Somewhat related is how does the coordinate system work?  My understanding is that the middle number is the Y coordinate and that's altitude.  I've been hovering over the map to try to judge altitude but at some point the Y seems to change to "1" even when I'm hovering over terrain I've already explored.  Is that intended or am I doing something wrong?

I suppose the general direction I’m going is whether I got a bad spawn or not.  I’ve found myself making numerous trips fairly far afield to gather things like cattails and clay.  I kind off suspect the intended newbie experience isn’t quite what I’m getting.  I'm afraid I'm going to be missing something vital were I'm at or be subject to much harsher weather than I'm "supposed to" be exposed to.  

For those who are interested:
I spawned on top of a mountain.  Much of the map was white with some valleys, all the rock below me was granite and it was very steep.  I got down, built a shelter, got some food, waited out the night, headed for lower ground trying to find a decent place to settle and promptly died to a wolf while dodging two bears.  Spawned back at the mountain in a slightly different place where it was even harder to get down and only in a completely different direction from my little shelter.  I discovered a traded and some ruins in what appears to be a fairly large alpine meadow or something.  Few trees (save for one small forest near one of the exits to the plateau), only one little pond and a hot spring, fairly flat but mountains in multiple directions and several stone spires of some sort (not ruins) in the valley.  Seems windy too.  I took over a larger ruin for a base by filling in holes and making a ceiling with dirt blocks and I’ve been able to start establishing myself.  I do like that I can see a fair distance.  Also, I have seen no bears or wolves on this plateau and I see that as a plus.  I have to go farther afield for that.  I do see other game, like rabbits, raccoons, chickens and the occasional deer or goat.  I've made several trips searching for things like reeds and clay.  Every direction I've gone in, I seem to run into rough terrain with little winding canyons that seem to go down in altitude.  As I go, I seem to start encountering more water, more trees and more dangerous animals.  I see one direction that appears to have more plateau separated from this one by some low hills but I have not gone there yet.  I've gotten myself somewhat established here.  Enough so that I'm starting to think about establishing a garden or something. 

[LadyWYT]

First off, welcome to the forums!

51 minutes ago, Max Kaladin said:

Question 1: Is there a key to empty your hand?

Pressing X will switch the current item to your offhand slot, if applicable--bear in mind that holding something in your offhand is an extra 20% to your hunger rate. Pressing Q will toss an item to the ground, and I think pressing either shift or ctrl with Q(I don't recall which) will toss the whole stack.

 

53 minutes ago, Max Kaladin said:

Question 2: Given that I used the baseline settings and that appears to be a 97.5% land cover, does that mean I won’t have oceans? 

The default settings mean that the map will be primarily land, with no large bodies of water. However, the 97.5% means that you will eventually find an ocean, if you explore enough. For more ocean though, I would recommend starting over and setting the land cover ratio to something more like 80%--that should ensure a handful of oceans to find, with relative ease, while still having land-based travel predominant.

 

56 minutes ago, Max Kaladin said:

Question 3:  How do I get a baseline for where I’m at?  The “feel” I get for the area I spawned in is that it’s some sort of high altitude plateau given that I spawned on a mountain, I’ve got mountains on two sides and rugged terrain in every direction I go in, plus few trees, only one tiny pond, it seems windy and the temperature was hovering just above 0C the first day or two I was there.  Plus, I think I saw some sort of snowflakes those first few days, though I’m not sure that’s possible in the game.  How can I tell what altitude I’m at?  I can see the Y coordinate for the area I’m in is around 110-120 with the mountain I spawned on being around 160.  But I have no frame of reference to know if that's high or not.  How can I tell what “latitude” I’m at or biome I'm in?  I presume I’m supposed to be in a temperate environment, but I’m not sure.  I’m kind of worried about what will happen when winter comes.  Am I going to experience more brutal winters than “normal”?  Will I be buried under snow?  (Does snow accumulation even happen in this game?)

By default, the beginning climate zone is temperate, although the higher up you go the colder it can get. You can turn on coordinates in the Interface tab of the Settings menu--the Y coordinate is what your altitude is. Generally, unless you're building up on the very top of a mountain, altitude isn't something to worry about. If you happen to be on a high altitude plateau, the climate may be more similar to taiga conditions than to temperate proper, but in that case, you should be able to tell by taiga creatures like elk, caribou, or mountain goats spawning nearby(potentially).

The difference between taiga and temperate winters isn't that much. Taiga will be a bit colder and last a bit longer than temperate winters, but it should still be relatively easy to handle with some planning.

1 hour ago, Max Kaladin said:

Question 4: Related to question 3, how can I find clay more easily?  I gather that this is a common question, so sorry for asking again.  I’ve read that it needs a wet environment and warm enough temperatures.  I’ve had plenty of rain but there is little standing water and the only clay I found was fairly far away when I was at what I think was a lower altitude with more standing water.  I suspect I’m at a higher altitude where I won’t be able to find any clay without significant travel. I've noticed some discolorations on the map where I've found peat but I don't see anything different about the one spot I found clay.  And I suspect I'm going to need a lot of it (for storage pots, if nothing else).  

Clay is something that can be difficult to spot, until you learn what it looks like. Discolorations can be a prime indicator, if playing with map colors, so you're on the right track there. Clay is most easily found in grassy areas with decent rainfall, or by low altitude lakes and ponds, and it's more easily spotted if the sides of the blocks are visible since they're a different color than dirt.

Red clay is the most common type to find, and can occur at lower and higher altitudes. Blue clay only occurs at low altitudes, typically near lakes and ponds. Fire clay only spawns in bauxite biomes, or underneath black coal/anthracite beds. You can also acquire clay from panning sand/gravel or as cracked vessel loot, but it's better to find a deposit than rely on these methods.

1 hour ago, Max Kaladin said:

Question 5:  Somewhat related is how does the coordinate system work?  My understanding is that the middle number is the Y coordinate and that's altitude.  I've been hovering over the map to try to judge altitude but at some point the Y seems to change to "1" even when I'm hovering over terrain I've already explored.  Is that intended or am I doing something wrong?

The map should be giving you the Y coordinate value for terrain you've already explored, so this sounds like a potential bug(assuming you aren't playing with mods that could affect such).

 

1 hour ago, Max Kaladin said:

I suppose the general direction I’m going is whether I got a bad spawn or not.  I’ve found myself making numerous trips fairly far afield to gather things like cattails and clay.  I kind off suspect the intended newbie experience isn’t quite what I’m getting.  I'm afraid I'm going to be missing something vital were I'm at or be subject to much harsher weather than I'm "supposed to" be exposed to.  

Honestly, it doesn't sound like the best of spawns, though it should still be manageable for a new player...albeit perhaps more challenging than the average spawn. Generally, the average experience on a temperate start is going to be at lower altitude, with ready access to cattails and berry bushes and other convenient early game resources. I would recommend starting a new world with a spawn you like better, and saving this world for when you have a bit more experience with the game. Of course, if you don't mind the bit of extra challenge, continuing on this world should be fine as well.

[Never Jhonsen]

12 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

1 hour ago, Max Kaladin said:

Question 5:  Somewhat related is how does the coordinate system work?  My understanding is that the middle number is the Y coordinate and that's altitude.  I've been hovering over the map to try to judge altitude but at some point the Y seems to change to "1" even when I'm hovering over terrain I've already explored.  Is that intended or am I doing something wrong?

The map should be giving you the Y coordinate value for terrain you've already explored, so this sounds like a potential bug(assuming you aren't playing with mods that could affect such).

This has been that was since I've started playing. Your immediate area on the map around you shows the proper XYZ coords, but once you start to hover your cursor over unloaded chunks, it loses the Y value. I'm assuming it's a game limitation, as in it can't load that Y value of unloaded chunks.

I've gotten around that by putting the Y value into the map markers themselves, such as "Trans 115" to indicate I found a translocator that's sitting at a Y value of 115.

[Max Kaladin]

2 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

First off, welcome to the forums!

Thank you!

 

2 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Pressing X will switch the current item to your offhand slot, if applicable--bear in mind that holding something in your offhand is an extra 20% to your hunger rate. Pressing Q will toss an item to the ground, and I think pressing either shift or ctrl with Q(I don't recall which) will toss the whole stack.

 

I knew about Q.  I will try X but I was hoping for something to just empty my hand.  Oh well.  

 

2 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

The default settings mean that the map will be primarily land, with no large bodies of water. However, the 97.5% means that you will eventually find an ocean, if you explore enough. For more ocean though, I would recommend starting over and setting the land cover ratio to something more like 80%--that should ensure a handful of oceans to find, with relative ease, while still having land-based travel predominant.

Well, it's good to know that there might be an ocean out there but I suspect it might be very far away.  I have no idea how terrain generation works here.  Is it likely that if I do go downhill until I reach 0 I'll find one or is it more random than that?  

2 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

By default, the beginning climate zone is temperate, although the higher up you go the colder it can get. You can turn on coordinates in the Interface tab of the Settings menu--the Y coordinate is what your altitude is. Generally, unless you're building up on the very top of a mountain, altitude isn't something to worry about. If you happen to be on a high altitude plateau, the climate may be more similar to taiga conditions than to temperate proper, but in that case, you should be able to tell by taiga creatures like elk, caribou, or mountain goats spawning nearby(potentially).

The difference between taiga and temperate winters isn't that much. Taiga will be a bit colder and last a bit longer than temperate winters, but it should still be relatively easy to handle with some planning.

Not on top of a mountain, just between two of them.  I suppose it will be fine except for the relative lack of things like clay and reeds nearby.  I admit I'm curious about where the local conditions stand next to other regions in the world.  

2 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

The map should be giving you the Y coordinate value for terrain you've already explored, so this sounds like a potential bug(assuming you aren't playing with mods that could affect such).

It does for nearby terrain but further off it says 1.  Apparently Never S. Johnsen has noticed the same thing.  No mods.  The guy I was watching on YouTube had a couple I'm tempted to try but I am always hesitant to do that because mods have a tendency to stop working with new updates or fall out of support.  

3 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Honestly, it doesn't sound like the best of spawns, though it should still be manageable for a new player...albeit perhaps more challenging than the average spawn. Generally, the average experience on a temperate start is going to be at lower altitude, with ready access to cattails and berry bushes and other convenient early game resources. I would recommend starting a new world with a spawn you like better, and saving this world for when you have a bit more experience with the game. Of course, if you don't mind the bit of extra challenge, continuing on this world should be fine as well.

I've done better here than I did with my first world ( though I benefitted from lessons there) so I don't think it's unmanageable either.  I'm just worried there is some "trap" where I'll be missing something vital down the line.  I keep going back and forth on whether I should restart again.  On the one hand, I'd like easier access to resources and an ocean (if I can get one near enough to spawn to make building a boat later viable), but on the other I admit I'm curious how this world will work out and I'm not sure how practical ocean access is anyway.  I'm not sure there is anywhere to sail to other than just sightseeing.  

Thank you for the detailed reply.  

[Max Kaladin]

2 hours ago, Never Jhonsen said:

This has been that was since I've started playing. Your immediate area on the map around you shows the proper XYZ coords, but once you start to hover your cursor over unloaded chunks, it loses the Y value. I'm assuming it's a game limitation, as in it can't load that Y value of unloaded chunks.

I've gotten around that by putting the Y value into the map markers themselves, such as "Trans 115" to indicate I found a translocator that's sitting at a Y value of 115.

That makes sense.  No idea what a "translocator" is but I suspect I'll find out.

Thank you.

[LadyWYT]

47 minutes ago, Max Kaladin said:

Well, it's good to know that there might be an ocean out there but I suspect it might be very far away.  I have no idea how terrain generation works here.  Is it likely that if I do go downhill until I reach 0 I'll find one or is it more random than that?  

Sea level is around Y 100; Y 0 is bedrock level. If you travel downhill to sea level, then you're more likely to encounter an ocean, but it's still very unlikely you'll run across one on default world settings unless you either get lucky or do a lot of exploring.

 

50 minutes ago, Max Kaladin said:

Not on top of a mountain, just between two of them.  I suppose it will be fine except for the relative lack of things like clay and reeds nearby.

When you do find reeds, you can dig up the roots with a knife and replant them near your base. Make sure you use a knife though, as the roots will be destroyed otherwise.

 

51 minutes ago, Max Kaladin said:

The guy I was watching on YouTube had a couple I'm tempted to try but I am always hesitant to do that because mods have a tendency to stop working with new updates or fall out of support.  

Depending on the mod, it may be possible to try them out and uninstall mid-play should you need to. 

 

52 minutes ago, Max Kaladin said:

I'm just worried there is some "trap" where I'll be missing something vital down the line.  I keep going back and forth on whether I should restart again.  On the one hand, I'd like easier access to resources and an ocean (if I can get one near enough to spawn to make building a boat later viable), but on the other I admit I'm curious how this world will work out and I'm not sure how practical ocean access is anyway.  I'm not sure there is anywhere to sail to other than just sightseeing.  

FOMO will quickly kill a player's enthusiasm for playing a game, especially one like Vintage Story. It is possible to experience most everything the game has to offer on one world, however, there are certain concessions you'll end up needing to make as well. Most are related to climate, in that certain climates support specific types of weather, plants, and animals that you won't get unless you visit those climates, or settle in them(in certain cases). For example, only the arctic will have daylight the full 24 hours in summer, and only the tropics are warm enough to grow crops like pineapples consistently without micromanaging a greenhouse(which might not even help if the climate gets cold enough).

It's also not unusual for a map to be missing a key resource or two for progress and require the player to search a few thousand blocks or so in order to find it. Some maps have everything one needs within walking distance of spawn, and some have practically nothing useful and make the player really work for their progress. Unless the world spawn doesn't look like it'll be very fun for you to play though, or you're tired of your current world and want a fresh start, there's not really a reason to restart a world just because the new might be "better".

As for oceans or very large lakes...the primary use of such currently is convenient travel. Sailboats are expensive to build and limited to the body of water they're built in, but they're able to haul a LOT of cargo between ports. Water travel itself is also relatively fast due to a lack of obstacles and aquatic enemies; the only hazard you really have to worry about is ice, which won't damage the sailboat but will impede travel. Otherwise, oceans aren't really that useful--I think you can maybe boil saltwater down into salt, but I'm not 100% sure. Once a proper method of fishing is added, they'll likely be a lot more useful.

[Kaldo]

I would say stick with your first map as long as you can. You will be inefficient, make mistakes, and learn - restarting all the time will just make that process (even more) grueling. However, it will make your 2nd map later on when you're more experienced even more sweeter and you will know to properly customize it to your liking. If you start restarting now you'll want to do it every 5 hours and be constantly unhappy - at least that's how I usually am

You can make any spawn work but I would say don't be too afraid of mods if you see something bothering you very much, there's probably a mod that can fix or improve it. Just keep regular backups and check if mods lets you install them half way through.

[Max Kaladin]

3 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

When you do find reeds, you can dig up the roots with a knife and replant them near your base. Make sure you use a knife though, as the roots will be destroyed otherwise.

I've actually been doing that!  The one time I found clay was when I had been out cutting reeds.  I ended up leaving a spear and shovel (both nearly worn) behind to carry both back.  I've got around 35-40 next to my base.  

 

3 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Depending on the mod, it may be possible to try them out and uninstall mid-play should you need to. 

When I run mods, those are the kind I try to stick to.  

 

3 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

FOMO will quickly kill a player's enthusiasm for playing a game, especially one like Vintage Story. It is possible to experience most everything the game has to offer on one world, however, there are certain concessions you'll end up needing to make as well. Most are related to climate, in that certain climates support specific types of weather, plants, and animals that you won't get unless you visit those climates, or settle in them(in certain cases). For example, only the arctic will have daylight the full 24 hours in summer, and only the tropics are warm enough to grow crops like pineapples consistently without micromanaging a greenhouse(which might not even help if the climate gets cold enough).

It's also not unusual for a map to be missing a key resource or two for progress and require the player to search a few thousand blocks or so in order to find it. Some maps have everything one needs within walking distance of spawn, and some have practically nothing useful and make the player really work for their progress. Unless the world spawn doesn't look like it'll be very fun for you to play though, or you're tired of your current world and want a fresh start, there's not really a reason to restart a world just because the new might be "better".

As for oceans or very large lakes...the primary use of such currently is convenient travel. Sailboats are expensive to build and limited to the body of water they're built in, but they're able to haul a LOT of cargo between ports. Water travel itself is also relatively fast due to a lack of obstacles and aquatic enemies; the only hazard you really have to worry about is ice, which won't damage the sailboat but will impede travel. Otherwise, oceans aren't really that useful--I think you can maybe boil saltwater down into salt, but I'm not 100% sure. Once a proper method of fishing is added, they'll likely be a lot more useful.

I think I'm going to stick with the world for now and see where it goes.  I haven't played this game enough to know if things are better or worse than normal. 'm having trouble with things like clay right now but maybe I'll have an easy time with metals because I'm in the middle of the mountains.  Who knows.  If not, if I have to explore, I have to explore.  If I get sick of it, I can start over and see if that's any better.  

I'm aware that boats are stuck in the body of water they're built in and that's why I wanted an ocean. :). It's a good point there isn't much reason to build a ship -- at least not yet.  Maybe they'll add stuff in the future and there will be reason to restart.  Similarly with things like rivers.  I've noticed that there is a mod for that. Maybe that will be vanilla someday.

[Max Kaladin]

2 hours ago, Kaldo said:

I would say stick with your first map as long as you can. You will be inefficient, make mistakes, and learn - restarting all the time will just make that process (even more) grueling. However, it will make your 2nd map later on when you're more experienced even more sweeter and you will know to properly customize it to your liking. If you start restarting now you'll want to do it every 5 hours and be constantly unhappy - at least that's how I usually am

You can make any spawn work but I would say don't be too afraid of mods if you see something bothering you very much, there's probably a mod that can fix or improve it. Just keep regular backups and check if mods lets you install them half way through.

I think I'm going to stick with it for now.  It already benefits from my first abortive world where I died in the dark from something I couldn't see.   

The main two I saw that I liked are one that marked things on the map when you crouch and one that let you zoom in.  I try to avoid ones where the game stops working right if the mod breaks and I can't just remove the mod to fix it.