(In)Stability Zone Mapping

[Monsota]

I'm not in the Discord, nor am I super familiar with these forums, so I apologize if this has already been requested and I just missed it.

Given how big temporal stability is, it would be nice of having some way of visualizing on the map how unstable a given area is, such that you can plot better routes on the surface and help prevent accidentally building in a temporal dead zone or something. I doubt it would be feasible to represent them in a three-dimensional space (at least, not easily), so I imagine this would just be an overlay over your map that highlights instability on the surface, likely in the form of a heat map.

Hypothetically, this could be also proper mechanic similar to prospecting. Dowsing rods spring to mind, perhaps serving a function like geiger counters of other games to help you mark out where instability starts and how intense it gets to develop your heat map. For players who want a challenge this could let them disable the stability gear entirely, encouraging them to rely on the rod for some exploration. Maybe using a dowsing rod on the ground below you could give you a vague warning as to how bad you should expect your stability to drop?

I am aware that temporally unstable regions can be circumvented entirely by just disabling temporal stability as a game mechanic, but that's ignoring all the players who enjoy engaging with stability. Yes, there is also the blue gear at the bottom of your screen, but unless there's something I'm unaware of that's hardly a precise measurement given how drastically stability can change, and it doesn't actively map out unstable zones.

[MKMoose]

2 minutes ago, Monsota said:

Yes, there is also the blue gear at the bottom of your screen, but unless there's something I'm unaware of that's hardly a precise measurement given how drastically stability can change, and it doesn't actively map out unstable zones.

I'm of a quite different opinion, as I think the UI indicator provides too much information. While it only allows to inspect stability at the player's current location and doesn't allow to as easily check whether an area is only slightly positive or strongly positive, it nonetheless exactly shows whether the player is in an area with negative stability (anywhere the gear turns counterclockwise) and even allows to roughly gauge how unstable it is (based on how fast the gear turns).

You could technically map out an entire unstable area on the map using that gear, though it would admittedly be tedious and would probably clutter your map with way too many waypoints. Creating waypoints with one press of a button using macros could make it much faster, though I don't remember exactly how to set that up.

 

10 minutes ago, Monsota said:

Given how big temporal stability is, it would be nice of having some way of visualizing on the map how unstable a given area is, such that you can plot better routes on the surface and help prevent accidentally building in a temporal dead zone or something. I doubt it would be feasible to represent them in a three-dimensional space (at least, not easily), so I imagine this would just be an overlay over your map that highlights instability on the surface, likely in the form of a heat map.

Hypothetically, this could be also proper mechanic similar to prospecting. Dowsing rods spring to mind, perhaps serving a function like geiger counters of other games to help you mark out where instability starts and how intense it gets to develop your heat map. For players who want a challenge this could let them disable the stability gear entirely, encouraging them to rely on the rod for some exploration. Maybe using a dowsing rod on the ground below you could give you a vague warning as to how bad you should expect your stability to drop?

I overall like the idea quite a lot, though I feel like it's largely missing a purpose at this moment, except if an optional setting to disable the gear indicator were added. More in the vein of a geiger counter and less a dubious dowsing device, some tech to allow measuring instability could be thematically very fitting and serve a cool gameplay purpose. However, as long as unstable areas are just permanent zones to avoid and the gear exactly shows whether you're standing in an unstable area, I can't quite think of a good reason for the average player to bother with anything more.

I'm not entirely sure about mapping as well, as unlike in prospecting there is almost no hidden information that it could provide. While it's a bit slow and annoying, you can do almost the same with your own waypoints and the gear. Automatic or fast large-area mapping would be convenient and I wouldn't necessarily oppose it, though I'm not sure if it wouldn't be too convenient.

Alongside an optional setting to disable the UI indicator or as part of some sort of larger stability rework, I think it would generally be a great addition.

[Zane Mordien]

It's a cool idea. I haven't seen anything like it yet, so I don't think you are duplicating. 

 

28 minutes ago, MKMoose said:

I feel like it's largely missing a purpose at this moment

Some people just want to know this as shown in the other thread. I don't need the information, but lots of people would like a way to know besides looking at the gear.

[Monsota]

2 hours ago, MKMoose said:

You could technically map out an entire unstable area on the map using that gear, though it would admittedly be tedious and would probably clutter your map with way too many waypoints. Creating waypoints with one press of a button using macros could make it much faster, though I don't remember exactly how to set that up.

The tedium of having to create some dozens of waypoints just to identify one instability hotspot is a big thing—for me, at least. You could absolutely go out of your way to do so, but it would take a fairly long time and make your map hard to work with. An actual tool/mechanic for this would be a fair bit more intuitive.

2 hours ago, MKMoose said:

Automatic or fast large-area mapping would be convenient and I wouldn't necessarily oppose it, though I'm not sure if it wouldn't be too convenient.

The convenience angle is one I hadn't exactly considered. I do agree it would be a little powerful for the Seraph to seemingly develop a third eye and immediately identify all the instability within a hundred blocks rather than just a vague feeling (or whatever the cog represents in-lore). The idea of using actual tech to locate and mark unstable regions checks out with the rest of progression too.

I realize I didn't clearly outline the main thing behind this. The main idea is to help you work around the unstable zones, or at least get a better sense of what you're going into. It's mostly a time saver though, so I also agree that this is fairly niche. Some applications off the top of my head would be...

• Plotting routes that do not go through low stability regions.
• Better home/base placement—are you about to place your new hovel down on an island of stability surrounded by an ocean of rust world influence?
• Generally assessing the danger level of an area of instability before moving into it, so one does not have to find out when it's already too late.
• Potentially, identifying how much stability is present around an ore deposit before digging a tunnel or mineshaft, allowing the player to better decide if it's worth their time (and save pickaxe durability).

I do recognize that stability on the surface generally isn't a huge deal though. This easily could be interpreted as overkill, but I cannot immediately see any issue with giving the player an ultimately optional way of gathering more information on the surroundings they are exploring, especially if it has some small investment into it. Perhaps this would, indeed, be better as part of a rework to stability or the unstable zones themselves?

Edited January 19 by Monsota
Forgot a word. Whoops.

[MKMoose]

16 hours ago, Monsota said:

• Plotting routes that do not go through low stability regions.
• Better home/base placement—are you about to place your new hovel down on an island of stability surrounded by an ocean of rust world influence?
• Generally assessing the danger level of an area of instability before moving into it, so one does not have to find out when it's already too late.
• Potentially, identifying how much stability is present around an ore deposit before digging a tunnel or mineshaft, allowing the player to better decide if it's worth their time (and save pickaxe durability).

To be honest, I've never needed any of these myself. 

That is not to say that nobody has, of course. Maybe I was just lucky enough to never have any particularly large unstable areas in vicinity.

I would appreciate a diegetic way to measure stability either way, even if it's entirely optional, and I just think it would be much more worthwhile if added together with other concurrent changes. Even convenient mapping or scanning would probably be quite fine for late-game gear, though, as a natural progression reward.

 

18 hours ago, Zane Mordien said:

Some people just want to know this as shown in the other thread. I don't need the information, but lots of people would like a way to know besides looking at the gear.

I know. I've myself mentioned the idea to move the UI indicator's funtionality to diegetic devices here and here, which at the time was met with mixed reactions, though it may have been significantly influenced by other context around it.

But the fact is that a measurement device, unless it has some advanced functionality like automatic mapping or large-scale scanning, would be almost entirely redundant with the gear. This is primarily because a dedicated device would presumably take some resources to craft and potentially operate, and would have to be carried around and potentially taken out and used regularly, unlike the gear which is completely free and accessible at all times. And even with more advanced functionality, many players like myself wouldn't really need it either way.

Edited January 20 by MKMoose

[Zane Mordien]

15 hours ago, MKMoose said:

I know. I've myself mentioned the idea to move the UI indicator's funtionality to diegetic devices here and here, which at the time was met with mixed reactions, though it may have been significantly influenced by other context around it.

But the fact is that a measurement device, unless it has some advanced functionality like automatic mapping or large-scale scanning, would be almost entirely redundant with the gear. This is primarily because a dedicated device would presumably take some resources to craft and potentially operate, and would have to be carried around and potentially taken out and used regularly, unlike the gear which is completely free and accessible at all times. And even with more advanced functionality, many players like myself wouldn't really need it either way.

I'm not a fan of removing the gear from the UI for vanilla, but it could be useful for a challenge setting. 

I think if of it less as redundant and more of a extra feature or something that could be used for a challenge setting where the gear is removed from the UI.