Marlim Posted Saturday at 12:29 AM Report Posted Saturday at 12:29 AM (edited) Underground Overhaul Making underground exploration more memorable, geologically convincing, and environmentally challenging Introduction In Vintage Story, the underground is one of the game's most distinctive environments. Unlike many games in the genre, exploring a cave requires preparation, caution, and a willingness to deal with real risks. Darkness limits visibility, resources are valuable, and the cave-in system creates the feeling that the world's own geology can become a threat. Even so, I believe the full potential of this environment is still far from being realized. While the search for ores is naturally the primary motivation for underground exploration, caves still have the potential to play a much larger role in the player's overall experience. The goal of this proposal is not to artificially increase difficulty, fill the underground with structures, or turn every cave into a sequence of scripted events. Quite the opposite-it is to strengthen the qualities that already make the underground unique. A vast, completely empty cavern can be just as memorable as a rare structure. A deep chasm can create more tension than an enemy encounter. The silence, the darkness, and the overwhelming feeling that an unimaginable mass of rock lies above the player's head can be just as important to the experience as any resource discovered during exploration. This proposal aims to make the underground feel more believable, more unpredictable, and more meaningful, where geology, atmosphere, and the infrastructure built by the player are just as important as the resources found within it. Design Philosophy Before presenting specific proposals, it is important to clarify the design direction that guides this document. The purpose of this suggestion is not to increase the amount of content found underground, nor to make exploration more difficult through new artificial obstacles. Instead, it seeks to strengthen the identity of the underground by building upon elements that are already central to Vintage Story's design philosophy: geology, survival, planning, and careful observation. Quote The suggestions presented below are based on the following design principles: 1. The environment should be the primary challenge. At present, much of the tension during underground exploration comes from the possibility of encountering hostile creatures or cave-ins. While both fulfill this role effectively, the environment itself still has the potential to become a far more significant source of challenge. Sheer drops, narrow passages, uneven terrain, structural instability, heat, geothermal activity, low visibility, and fragile ground can encourage players to carefully assess their surroundings before moving forward. The goal is not to punish exploration, but to make the environment itself an active part of the player's decision-making. 2. Depth should represent progression. The deeper the player ventures, the stronger the feeling of leaving the familiar world behind should become. At present, this progression is expressed primarily through increasing difficulty of access and resource distribution. This proposal suggests that the geology itself should evolve with depth, allowing each underground layer to develop its own natural characteristics without resorting to fantastical elements or anything that conflicts with the game's visual identity. Depth would no longer represent only distance, but a gradual transformation of the environment itself. 3. The geology should feel natural. The underground should convey the impression that it was shaped by geological processes rather than arranged around gameplay mechanics. Ore distribution, cave formation, sediment accumulation, and varying environmental conditions can all reinforce this perception without significantly altering gameplay. The more coherent the underground's geological formation feels, the more believable its exploration becomes. 4. Atmosphere should emerge from the environment itself. This proposal deliberately avoids turning the underground into a place filled with constant events, structures, or decorative elements. Silence, darkness, vast open chambers, narrow corridors, and naturally formed caves often create a more memorable atmosphere than a constant stream of content. In many cases, a completely empty cave can be just as memorable as discovering a rare structure. The goal is to emphasize the environment itself, rather than filling it with content. 5. Infrastructure should be part of progression. Exploring a cave is only the beginning of mining operations. As players begin using an area regularly, it becomes natural to construct stairs, ropes, support beams, minecart rails, bridges, and permanent lighting systems. This infrastructure not only makes exploration easier, but also visually represents the gradual transformation of a hostile environment into a mine built by the player. Note Whenever this document presents implementation examples, they should be understood solely as possible approaches intended to illustrate a design direction. The purpose of this proposal is to discuss gameplay concepts and player experience, not to prescribe exactly how these ideas should be implemented. 1. A More Intuitive Cave-In System Quote A More Intuitive Cave-In System Among all the mechanics in Vintage Story, the cave-in system is perhaps one of the strongest contributors to the game's identity. The idea that mining requires planning, structural support, and respect for the limitations of the environment sets it apart from simply breaking blocks, turning mining into an exercise in observation, engineering, and risk management. This concept directly reinforces one of the core principles of this proposal: the environment itself should be the primary challenge of underground exploration. Rather than relying solely on hostile creatures or artificial obstacles, the terrain becomes an active factor in the player's decisions. In practice, however, many players end up viewing cave-ins primarily as a source of punishment. Not because the mechanic itself is flawed, but because the information needed to understand a mine's structural stability is not always communicated clearly. As a result, part of the community avoids large excavations altogether, ignores the system entirely, or simply learns to deal with it through trial and error. The purpose of this proposal is not to reduce the difficulty of mining or make cave-ins less dangerous. Quite the opposite. The goal is to make the mechanic more readable, allowing players to understand environmental risks and make informed decisions before an accident occurs. When players understand why a cave-in happened and what tools they have to prevent it, the experience shifts from being frustrating to rewarding planning, knowledge, and preparation. The challenge remains the same; what changes is the player's ability to interpret the environment. Possible implementation approaches (examples only) The examples below represent possible ways of achieving this goal and should not be interpreted as definitive solutions. Visual feedback Small dust particles or tiny rock fragments occasionally falling from unstable blocks. Subtle cracks or other discreet visual changes indicating structural stress. Audio feedback Occasional creaking or cracking sounds coming from unstable areas. Subtle rock movement sounds preceding a potential cave-in. Mining tools Specialized equipment capable of helping players assess the structural stability of a mine, such as a "miner's goggles" or a similar instrument. Infrastructure Clearer visual indication of the area protected by support beams. More intuitive placement and removal of support beams. Greater encouragement to use support beams as part of the game's natural progression. Contribution to the gameplay experience More than simply making mining easier, this proposal aims to strengthen one of Vintage Story's defining characteristics: the feeling that the underground is a naturally hostile environment, indifferent to the player's presence. By better understanding how cave-ins behave, players are more likely to use support beams, plan excavations, and build infrastructure—not because they were previously punished, but because they recognize these practices as a natural part of mastering an environment that was never meant to be inhabited. Conceptual example images: 2. Greater Geological Diversity in Caves Quote Greater Geological Diversity in Caves One of the core principles of this proposal is that small details create memorable environments. The goal is not to make the underground visually extravagant, but to make it feel like the result of natural processes that have been shaping it for thousands of years. At present, many caves feature relatively uniform surfaces. While this does not directly affect gameplay, it reduces the impression of exploring an environment continuously shaped by gravity, moisture, rock weathering, and the long-term action of water. In nature, the interior of a cave is rarely completely clean or uniform. Rock fragments tend to accumulate along walls, beneath ceilings prone to material detachment, and across flat areas where gravity allows sediments to settle. Likewise, areas near underground bodies of water often collect sand and finer sediments, while regions closer to the surface may contain roots, organic matter, and other elements characteristic of the biome above. This proposal is not about filling caves with decorative objects or turning underground exploration into a visual spectacle. On the contrary, the intention is to reinforce the identity of the underground through subtle changes that make it feel older, more dynamic, and more believable without compromising its simplicity. Possible implementation approaches (examples only) The examples below represent only possible applications of this idea. Sediment accumulation Gravel matching the surrounding host rock naturally accumulating in flat areas. Small loose rocks scattered near walls and slopes. Areas beneath cracked stone ceilings containing a noticeably greater accumulation of fallen rock fragments. Water influence Sand and other fine sediments accumulating along the shores of underground lakes and other subterranean bodies of water. Subtle texture variations, water droplets, or changes in ground composition in areas that remain consistently damp. Contribution to the gameplay experience Although these are subtle changes, they continually reinforce the feeling that the underground was not created for the player. Every detail suggests that the environment is still being shaped by natural processes, making exploration feel more believable without relying on artificial structures or fantastical elements. Conceptual example images: 3. Mineral Deposits with Variable Ore Concentration Quote Mineral Deposits with Variable Ore Concentration The search for ores is one of the primary motivations for underground exploration in Vintage Story. However, once a deposit is located, mining it generally consists of extracting a relatively uniform cluster of ore blocks. The idea presented here is to make the internal structure of mineral deposits feel more geologically convincing without changing how they are discovered. At present, ore deposits typically have a fairly uniform composition regardless of their shape. This proposal suggests that a single deposit should contain varying levels of ore concentration throughout its body. Rather than consisting entirely of blocks of the same grade, a deposit could feature a gradual distribution, with lower concentrations around its outer edges and an increasingly richer core toward the center. This distribution does not need to follow a rigid pattern, only to convey the impression that the ore naturally concentrated over geological time. An important aspect of this proposal is that it does not necessarily require new blocks or new gameplay mechanics. Vintage Story already includes multiple ore grades for many minerals. The idea is simply to make use of these existing block variants during world generation, allowing differences in ore concentration to become a natural part of each deposit's structure. Possible implementation approaches (examples only) The examples below illustrate possible internal distributions within a single deposit. Lower ore concentrations around the outer edges of the deposit. Medium concentrations between the outer edges and the center. A naturally richer core. Gradual transitions between different ore grades, avoiding abrupt changes. Contribution to the gameplay experience This proposal is not intended to make mining more difficult or change how ore deposits are located. Its purpose is to make each deposit feel like a more convincing geological formation by making better use of a system that already exists in the game. Natural variations in ore concentration reinforce the impression that the deposit was formed through geological processes rather than simply generated as a homogeneous volume. Conceptual example images: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9vHe5qYU9evIcXIYhTARKkywnxXNWBVoaVhpAVc3xkH7lANaTQdY1xCc&s=10 4. A Natural Transition Toward the World's Greatest Depths Quote A Natural Transition Toward the World's Greatest Depths Bedrock currently serves as the lower boundary of the explorable world. It has a clear purpose by defining a physical limit and preventing excavation from continuing indefinitely. However, the transition between the deepest underground layers and bedrock can feel somewhat abrupt. After passing through numerous subterranean layers, the player eventually encounters a barrier that is fundamentally different from the surrounding environment, without experiencing a gradual change that suggests they are approaching the world's lower limit. This proposal suggests that the regions surrounding bedrock should display progressive signs of extreme depth, making the approach to this boundary feel like a natural consequence of the world's geology. Rather than bedrock being the first indication that the player has reached the world's lower limit, the surrounding environment could gradually communicate this transition through increased geothermal activity, the presence of magma, and increasingly extreme environmental conditions. The goal is not to replace bedrock or remove the world's lower boundary, but to make reaching it feel like the natural culmination of a gradual descent through the depths. Possible implementation approaches (examples only) A gradual increase in lava and magma pockets at extreme depths. More frequent geothermal areas near the world's lower boundary. A smooth transition between deep rock formations and regions of intense geothermal activity. Additional environmental cues indicating that the player is approaching bedrock. A new mechanic involving limited breathable air or the presence of toxic gases. This same logic could also extend to the deepest parts of the oceans. In areas where the seabed reaches these intensely geothermal layers, magma pockets close to the surface could give rise to hydrothermal vents. These formations would not need to constitute a new biome, but rather an occasional geological phenomenon that appears only where natural terrain conditions allow it. As a result, they would emerge organically from world generation instead of being manually placed features. Contribution to the gameplay experience The intention is to make the world's lower boundary feel less like a technical limitation and more like a natural characteristic of the planet. As players descend, the environment itself should communicate that they are approaching an increasingly extreme realm, where the very structure of the world begins to impose its limits. Conceptual example images: https://gist.github.com/catter1/1f90b77263e3746c20c1fd93a7393f69#scorching-caves hydrothermal vents: https://ingeoexpert.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/800px-Brothers_blacksmoker_hires.jpg https://preview.redd.it/hydrothermal-vents-v0-hhpzr0kevqx61.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=50ce78ae212692f17627f91ece523edfad0a5918 https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS96ducyP1Lp8gYvoY_HyYwNSx3DXbGPKWzQikCeBKMSWAkHxJJkMOEe1pq&s=10 5. A Layered Underground Structure Quote A Layered Underground Structure One of the aspects that makes exploration engaging is the feeling that the world changes as we move through it. On the surface, this happens naturally through biomes, climate, vegetation, and terrain. However, as the player descends underground, this sense of progression gradually diminishes. Although there are differences between regions and depths, much of the underground conveys the impression of a single continuous environment that simply extends downward. This proposal seeks to create a clearer sense of environmental progression, giving each stage of the descent its own identity while remaining faithful to Vintage Story's design philosophy. The goal is not to transform the underground into a sequence of fantastical biomes or spectacular landscapes. On the contrary, the proposal reinforces its geological identity by making each layer a natural consequence of depth, surface climate, and the geological processes that shape the planet's interior. The descent should gradually make the player feel as though they are leaving a familiar environment behind and entering a place that becomes increasingly hostile, silent, and unknown. Surface This is the environment the player already knows. The entire underground progression begins from this reference point. Natural light, vegetation, wildlife, and the familiar elements of the world dominate this layer. Upper Layer This layer represents the transition between the surface and the underground. Its defining characteristic is the strong influence of the surface environment. Depending on the biome, this layer could exhibit very different characteristics. In deserts, for example, sand, gravel, and more friable rock formations would predominate. In forests, roots, small fungi, vines, and animal burrows would be common. In mountain regions, ice, accumulations of loose rock, and caves used as shelters by large animals could appear. It is also the layer where most surface ruins would make sense, as they remain closer to areas that were once inhabited. Although this marks the beginning of underground exploration, it should still give the player a sense of remaining close to the surface. Middle Layer This is where true underground exploration begins. Large cave systems become the dominant feature of the landscape, while the direct influence of the surface almost completely disappears. This layer offers the greatest opportunity to introduce a variety of underground ecosystems. However, the proposal does not seek fantastical environments such as magical forests, lost worlds, or hidden civilizations. Vintage Story has always embraced a more restrained form of fantasy inspired by natural processes. For that reason, environments based on geological formations feel far more appropriate. Examples include fungal regions, geothermal areas, cold cave systems, vast crystal formations, or environments rich in naturally occurring gases. The intention is to surprise players through geology rather than spectacle. Deep Layer This represents the most hostile stage of underground exploration. Large cave networks become less common, giving way to narrow passages, immense chasms, and regions where the near-total absence of light becomes a defining part of the experience. It is the destination of the world's deepest abysses. A silent, empty, and unsettling environment. In this layer, the absence of features becomes part of the experience itself. Not every discovery needs to lead to a structure, a creature, or an immediate reward. In many cases, simply encountering a vast, dark void can become one of the most memorable moments of exploration. It is also here that exceptionally rare resources, such as certain gems and ores, would feel most appropriate. Bottom Layer This represents the natural limit of the explorable world. Geothermal activity becomes the dominant feature. Magma pockets become increasingly common, signaling that the player is approaching the deepest regions of the planet. Only after this gradual transition does bedrock appear, serving as the world's final boundary. This allows the lower limit of the world to feel like the natural conclusion of the underground journey rather than an abrupt technical barrier. Contribution to the gameplay experience The purpose is to transform depth into a form of environmental storytelling. Each underground layer represents a distinct stage of the descent, expressed not only through visual differences, but also through its atmosphere, environmental hazards, available resources, and the way the world itself behaves. The goal is not to make the underground more complex or more fantastical, but to ensure that every meter descended feels like meaningful progress into a world that is increasingly ancient, isolated, and hostile. Conceptual example images: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Maronal_6354mod.jpg/500px-Maronal_6354mod.jpg https://media.forgecdn.net/attachments/600/855/tangle-roots.png https://live.staticflickr.com/1011/870325399_62c4011dc6_b.jpg https://caves.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/rootsicles_yucatan1-.jpg 6. Mining Infrastructure Quote Mining Infrastructure One of the most compelling aspects of underground exploration is the gradual transformation of a hostile environment into a familiar and reliable workspace. As a mine expands, players naturally become familiar with its routes, organize resources, and establish increasingly efficient connections between the surface and the deeper underground. However, this progression still has room to become more meaningful. Many cave systems can currently be traversed simply by walking, with little practical need to construct permanent infrastructure. As a result, many existing systems are used only in specific situations instead of becoming an integral part of the mining experience. This proposal reinforces one of the principles introduced earlier: the player should conquer the underground. The intention is not to force the construction of infrastructure, but to create situations where doing so becomes the most practical and rewarding choice. Rather than passing through a cave only once, players would see value in transforming it into a permanent route for exploration and transportation. This also reinforces the idea that the true challenge of underground exploration lies not only in discovering resources, but in developing efficient and safe ways to extract them. Possible implementation approaches (examples only) The examples below represent only a few possibilities that are compatible with this design philosophy. Minecarts Minecarts would primarily serve well-established mining operations. A possible implementation could be inspired by the handcars used on historical mining railways, propelled manually by players using a pump lever and requiring no external power source. In addition to transporting one or two players, extra wagons could be coupled together to carry crates or chests, making it easier to move large quantities of ore, stone, and other materials. Because the system would rely entirely on player power, routes with steep inclines would naturally become less efficient, especially when hauling several loaded wagons. This would allow railways to remain the preferred solution for horizontal transportation, while elevators and other vertical systems would continue to be the most effective option for overcoming large changes in elevation. This distinction gives each transportation system a clear role within a mine's infrastructure, encouraging players to choose the most appropriate solution instead of relying on a single universal method. Rails Rails could be built from relatively accessible materials, such as wood combined with copper, iron, or another metal appropriate for the stage of progression in which they become available. The intention is to make long transportation routes practical without making them prohibitively expensive. It would also make sense for rails to require structural support along their entire length, needing to be placed on solid blocks or player-built structures. This would naturally encourage the construction of bridges, platforms, and permanent passageways, reinforcing the idea that a well-developed mine is an engineering project rather than simply a collection of excavated tunnels. Multiblock Elevators Multiblock elevators could represent the natural evolution of the improvised solutions used during the early stages of underground exploration. Built using ropes, wooden frameworks, and Vintage Story's existing mechanical systems—such as gears and kinetic power—they could provide permanent vertical access between different mining levels. Depending on their size, they could even transport small minecarts or large cargo loads. Ropes Rather than introducing an entirely new rope type, one possibility would be to expand the functionality of the rope system already present in the game, building upon a mechanic that players are already familiar with. Ropes could serve as the simplest and most accessible method of vertical movement during early underground expeditions. Their greatest advantage would be convenience, allowing them to be deployed directly from above with minimal preparation. As a tradeoff, they would naturally have limited carrying capacity. For example, they might safely support only one player at a time, eventually breaking if subjected to the weight of multiple players simultaneously for an extended period. Beyond their role in early exploration, these same ropes could later become structural components of more advanced systems, such as kinetic-powered elevators, creating a natural progression from improvised solutions to permanent infrastructure. Natural incentives More important than introducing new methods of transportation is creating situations where they naturally become worthwhile. Extensive ore deposits, regions separated by massive chasms, exceptionally deep mines, or resources located beneath the ocean floor are all examples where building infrastructure stops being an aesthetic choice and becomes a practical necessity. The goal is for the world itself to encourage players to construct bridges, platforms, stairways, lighting systems, railways, elevators, camps, and permanent exploration routes. As a result, these structures cease to be occasional constructions and instead become a natural consequence of underground exploration. Contribution to the gameplay experience This proposal seeks to transform mining into an ongoing process of occupying and mastering the underground. Players would no longer simply enter a cave, extract its resources, and leave. Instead, they would learn its routes, adapt the terrain to their needs, and build infrastructure that supports future expeditions. The larger a mine becomes, the less it feels like a natural cave and the more it tells the story of human presence within that environment. This transformation reinforces the feeling of progression without diminishing the hostility of the underground. On the contrary, it emphasizes that every bridge, every rail line, and every platform exists because the environment was never easy to traverse. Conceptual example images: https://createmod.com/api/files/schematics/bsyi1nx9dfdvx46/elevator1_u6g46kmhul_512177xmfp.jpg https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/create_mod/images/2/25/Elevator_Pulley.png/revision/latest?cb=20230522011516 https://i.ytimg.com/vi/veiX0o3_brc/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/vwebp/1200x/12/9a/97/129a9739fe271088274ce4bcb6552ae9.webp Final Remarks Quote Final Remarks While developing this proposal, I realized that it is not just about caves or mining. It explores a particular gameplay fantasy that, in my view, still has tremendous room for growth. Many games feature mining as one of their core mechanics, but each interprets it differently. Minecraft prioritizes creative freedom and accessibility. Over the years, its caves have evolved toward larger, more visually impressive landscapes, reducing some of the sense of confinement, silence, and vulnerability that characterized earlier versions. Terraria and Core Keeper both use mining as a core progression system, but within a framework that is clearly centered on action RPG gameplay, where combat and boss encounters naturally take center stage. Stardew Valley treats mining as a complementary activity within a much broader experience focused on farming and everyday life. None of these approaches is wrong. Each game successfully achieves the experience it sets out to create. However, I believe there is still a mining fantasy that remains relatively unexplored: one centered less on combat and more on geology; less on constant rewards and more on discovery. Less on visual spectacle, and more on atmosphere. A place where silence, darkness, depth, engineering, and player-built infrastructure are the defining elements of the experience. In my opinion, very few games have as much potential to occupy that space as Vintage Story. Its cave-in system, geological diversity, wide variety of rock types and ores, underground depth, lighting, survival mechanics, mechanical systems, and distinctive art direction already provide an exceptionally strong foundation for it. For that reason, this proposal is not intended to turn Vintage Story into a different game. Quite the opposite. Its purpose is to strengthen qualities that are already part of the game's identity and that, in my view, still have tremendous potential for further development. I have followed the evolution of the underground since the beginning of Early Access, and I have always felt that this environment could play an even more important role in the overall gameplay experience. I've often thought of Vintage Story's underground as a high-performance sports car sitting in a garage: its potential is obvious, but it has yet to be fully realized. That perception is what ultimately motivated me to write this document. I would also like to thank the entire development team for the remarkable work they have done so far, and apologize for the simplicity of the conceptual illustrations included in this proposal. Unfortunately, I do not have the artistic skills to better illustrate some of these ideas, so I chose to rely on simple diagrams and visual references solely to make the concepts easier to understand. I hope this proposal can help unlock some of that potential. Proposal Intent This proposal presents a design direction. The examples included throughout the document are intended solely to illustrate possible implementation approaches and should not be interpreted as definitive solutions. Any eventual implementation would naturally depend on the vision and design decisions of the development team. Living Document This document should not be considered a final version. Its purpose is to gather ideas, feedback, and contributions from the community so that the proposal can continue evolving over time. Whenever a suggestion helps reinforce the design philosophy presented in this document, it may be incorporated into future revisions. Edited Saturday at 02:54 PM by Marlim 3
Cedric the Silent Posted Saturday at 01:27 AM Report Posted Saturday at 01:27 AM Like your ideas but if I may suggest under your cave dangers section consider adding hypothermia risk when in sections of caves with a sources of ground water as the moisture in the enclosed air leads to cold and damp environment, other risk being pockets of deadly gasses such as carbon dioxide, and being overexposed to diseased filled rats, bats and or risk fungal infections from inhaling fungus spores. 1
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