Atlatls and Javelins

[Benjeeh]

Personally I don't use bows or swords because I like spears and tend to use them when there is the option. I often find myself carrying 2-3 spears and then sprinting a circle around my enemy to grab the thrown ones.

I was thinking of the spear being more of an alternative to the sword as melee weapons (spear has more reach and is slower than the sword).
Adding Javelins and Atlatls to be the alternative to the Bows (Javelins thrown by hand have the lowest range; Atlatls use the Javelins as ammo and give an intermediate range).
Javelins would also have higher damage than the Bows; this wouldn't change whether using an Atlatl or not.

Javelins could be stacked up to a small amount; possibly 8 and are throwable much like the spear is now.
When crafting Javelin tips they would be made in either 2 or 4 (a divisible number of the stack amount preferably), much like making arrows 6 or 9 at a time.

Atlatls could be made with hammer and chisel and a log. Possibly having ornate versions like the spear.
Early on crude atlatls could be carved from a log with a knife, as a class specific weapon much like the Hunter's crude bow
Javelin tips would be a new Knapping recipe as well as new smithing recipe and then crafted with a stick to make javelins.

[Dude7ox]

I think this type of weapon is too specific to be included in the vanilla game. But no one stops you from making a mod

[Benjeeh]

12 minutes ago, Eugene Fox said:

I think this type of weapon is too specific to be included in the vanilla game. But no one stops you from making a mod

Just wondering how this is more specific than bows and arrows?
As for making a mod I generally don't mod games.

[Dude7ox]

3 minutes ago, Benjeeh said:

Just wondering how this is more specific than bows and arrows?
As for making a mod I generally don't mod games.

Uhhh.... bow and arrows is the most common weapon\tool (alongside with the spear actually). It is the most common (again) and most recognisable long range weapon.
I really don't see a point in adding Atlatls (first time i hear about this honestly) as an alternative to the bows because... why? Arrows in the current state of the game fall faster than the cannonball, and adding another arrow which is chonkier and heavier doesn't make much sense because, again, you have spears, which in fact are not an alterntaive to the swords, they are spears.

You generally don't mod games but ask for a feature only you want to be added in vanilla instead of making a mod, rightio

[Benjeeh]

3 minutes ago, Eugene Fox said:

Uhhh.... bow and arrows is the most common weapon\tool (alongside with the spear actually). It is the most common (again) and most recognisable long range weapon.
I really don't see a point in adding Atlatls (first time i hear about this honestly) as an alternative to the bows because... why? Arrows in the current state of the game fall faster than the cannonball, and adding another arrow which is chonkier and heavier doesn't make much sense because, again, you have spears, which in fact are not an alterntaive to the swords, they are spears.

You generally don't mod games but ask for a feature only you want to be added in vanilla instead of making a mod, rightio

Well for starters, it's a suggestion something for other players to look at and consider as an idea.
My suggestion wasn't for swords and spears to be the same more so as alternatives to each other offering differences. Most games offer a variety of weapons with slightly different play styles for players to pick from; bows and spears as you say might be the most widely used tools, however I can also count the number of games I've played that have spears in them on one hand. As for arrows in the current state could they not be changed to better their performance? Again I haven't used a bow in game but if they drop as fast as you say sounds like something that should change. But I get it you don't like my idea but this is also a suggestion for the suggestion forum.

[Dude7ox]

3 minutes ago, Benjeeh said:

Well for starters, it's a suggestion something for other players to look at and consider as an idea.
My suggestion wasn't for swords and spears to be the same more so as alternatives to each other offering differences. Most games offer a variety of weapons with slightly different play styles for players to pick from; bows and spears as you say might be the most widely used tools, however I can also count the number of games I've played that have spears in them on one hand. As for arrows in the current state could they not be changed to better their performance? Again I haven't used a bow in game but if they drop as fast as you say sounds like something that should change. But I get it you don't like my idea but this is also a suggestion for the suggestion forum.

Well i'm on the other hand trying to discuss why that may not be the best suggestion. But yes, you are indeed have all the rights to write suggestions, and i want to apologise if i was harsh or rude in any way. That is mostly because English is not my native language (as you obviously already noticed i assume), and sometimes i can't properly explain my opinion

[Taminogi]

I actually think this is a great idea for the vanilla game! As another fellow strictly vanilla player it's always great for a game to give more alternative types of weapons/ammo. Atlatls specifically I rarely get to see in other games which would make the game even more unique than it already is. My friends and I have all had a good talk about this and we all agree that people just starting out with the game would be surprised with this being an option.

I look forward to seeing more suggestions 

A yes from me

[Doctorgeo7]

Javelins would be a good addition to the game. I almost exclusively use using spears for throwing, especially since they last longer than arrows. If you are up to try a mod, there is the WeaponPack mod (https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/445) that adds Throwing Spears and Heavy Spear as dedicated throwing or melee variants of the spear.

[Fredrik Blomquist]

Personally i think making the default spear a jawelin and adding a real spear instead. I usually don't throw my spears and it feels strange that they only do half damage when stabbing when it should be the other way around. When defending from a wolf throwing away your spear at it should be the last thing you should do. But to change this i think they need to make two different spears - one jawelin and one spear or pike.

[Fredrik Blomquist]

Atlaltls should be mostly for increasing the range of the jawelin. Don't mind one in the game, but i think there is a lot i would like to see before that.

[Philtre]

10 hours ago, Fredrik Blomquist said:

 When defending from a wolf throwing away your spear at it should be the last thing you should do.

Make a bunch of spears and take the beastie out at range (it takes 3-4 thrown spears to kill a wolf). Dealing with a threat before it gets close enough to bite you is always a good idea. Most real-world primitive spears were in fact intended to be thrown.

[Fredrik Blomquist]

1 hour ago, Philtre said:

Make a bunch of spears and take the beastie out at range (it takes 3-4 thrown spears to kill a wolf). Dealing with a threat before it gets close enough to bite you is always a good idea. Most real-world primitive spears were in fact intended to be thrown.

A lot of primitive hunting spears where intended to be thrown. And hunting spears mainly been used by people that don't use bow. Spears for bear hunting is a late exeption thats not that primitive, and they are for defence and not meant to be thrown. Military spears are usually not meant to be thrown, and when they are, they usually make different kind of spears for throwing and for using in hand to hand combat. And if you are defending, you don't throw your spear. Of course, IRL a wolf would probably never attack a grown human armed with a spear. Possibly if the person was wounded, and only in a pack when they can surround the person.

A spear does much more damage hand held. The reason for throwing them is the range, there is not a lot of animals humans can outrun and they are usually hard to sneak up upon. But if you are defending throwing them is not a good idea.

I know you can kill wolfes pretty easy at range with lots of spears. I just never learned it propery, because it didn't feel immersive to use spears that way. Perhaps it's even less immersive to jump into water and kill them swimming, but never mind. You can always trap them in pits instead and kill them that way. And i find all these spears take up a lot of inventory space.

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Fredrik Blomquist

[Benjeeh]

On 1/26/2022 at 1:32 PM, Philtre said:

Make a bunch of spears and take the beastie out at range (it takes 3-4 thrown spears to kill a wolf). Dealing with a threat before it gets close enough to bite you is always a good idea. Most real-world primitive spears were in fact intended to be thrown.

this is the main reason i suggested javelins, I find quite often I run out of inventory space if I go off looking for resources something that can stack to a small amount instead of taking up 3 or 4 inventory slots

[Pallanza]

Splitting the current in-game spear into a dedicated melee spear item and a javelin item would be nice. Spears would provide better range than swords, at the cost of lower DPS. Javelins could stack up to 4 per inventory slot, providing a high burst damage, but low ammo count alternative to archery. And it would round out the primitive ranged weapon trifecta of arrows, slings and throwing spears. Slings in this case would be the medium ground, offering longer range and easier ammo production but lower burst damage than javelins, and worse DPS than arrows.