Please change default world settings, add more water to it, we have sailboats, lets use it

[Eldhelion]

i'm brand new to vintage story (170h) and watching some new players on youtube, and i have to say, with the amount of travel required to go to lore places, the mount is ok but far from good.

Since sailboats are a thing, it would be nice if the default world gen - that most brand news player will probably use - had more water (ocean).

I'm adept of forever world style of play, and VS slow pace sorta leans into it, having a usefull tool (sailboat) to lesser some pain but being unable to use it is just salt in the wound

 

 

[Lugh Crow-Slave]

When they are fully implemented I 100% agree. Currently traveling over water doesn't really "feel" good. So I can see why default gen would avoid it. 

[LadyWYT]

Welcome to the forums! To my knowledge, default world settings are getting adjusted in 1.21 to account for oceans, since there's now actually content to be had for such large bodies of water. Otherwise, I agree with what @Lugh Crow-Slave already noted--aquatic content is still lacking, and needs more refinement before too many adjustments happen. Otherwise, players will end up with a lot of water but nothing to really do with it, which isn't very fun.

[Katherine K]

8 hours ago, Lugh Crow-Slave said:

When they are fully implemented I 100% agree. Currently traveling over water doesn't really "feel" good. So I can see why default gen would avoid it. 

Currently, there isn't really enough change from one body of land to another. I feel like you have to tune the biome/geology density as well for the world to be enjoyable with more water in it, but also a good balance of these seems very close. Maybe some of the fine changes in 1.21 will get us there.

[Wahazar]

I don't understand argumt "oceans are empty, thus not implemented by default" - main purpose of oceans is to travel on top of them, reef snorkeling is just minor addition.

[Lugh Crow-Slave]

1 hour ago, Wahazar said:

I don't understand argumt "oceans are empty, thus not implemented by default" - main purpose of oceans is to travel on top of them, reef snorkeling is just minor addition.

That's because you're not understanding the entire argument. It's not just that they are empty it's that traveling them doesn't feel good. 

 

It's just holding w for an extended time. Nether the oceans nor the methods to traverse them are fully implemented yet. 

Edited August 1, 2025 by Lugh Crow-Slave

[LadyWYT]

3 hours ago, Wahazar said:

I don't understand argumt "oceans are empty, thus not implemented by default" - main purpose of oceans is to travel on top of them, reef snorkeling is just minor addition.

I mean, I remember barren oceans from the other block game. No fish, no coral, no seaweed, just water. Nothing but water. Traveling them was very easy given there was no terrain or monsters to serve as obstacles, but it wasn't fun(and not just because the early boats were terrible). The aquatic update changed all that by adding seaweed, coral, plenty of fish, dolphins, shipwrecks, and the guardians/ocean temples, along with improved boats. Not only did boats become much more usable, but there was also something to see out in all that water when traveling, and goodies to look for if one is inclined to explore.

Similar case with oceans and large bodies of water in Vintage Story. Once there is some actual life to the water, and a proper fishing system or some sort of curiosity to find(sunken treasure, ruins, etc), or even a way to really explore underwater...I don't expect water travel to be very exciting at all. It's simply an easy way to get from point A to point B, but without anything interesting to look at.

[Katherine K]

9 hours ago, Lugh Crow-Slave said:

It's just holding w for an extended time. Nether the oceans nor the methods to traverse them are fully implemented yet. 

It does sound like 1.21 update changes it so that you don't have to hold w anymore. That doesn't solve the problem of there not being much to do, but not having to hold a key is an improvement, letting you spend the time with the map, watching land you're passing, or even crafting on the voyage a lot more manageable.

Adding wind direction and needing to adjust the rigging for the course you've selected is probably going to make things a bit more exciting, but for longer voyages, if the wind changes so often that you have to constantly adjust for it, it'll get annoying. And otherwise, it's still put a boat on the course and find a way to pass the time. And there's still only so much you *could* do.

But these problems are there regardless of where you're going over a long distance. I'd argue that over land, it's much worse. Having large, open bodies of water gives you options.

[Krougal]

I still haven't seen the ocean, 2.5% doesn't sound like a lot, although I guess with the feature size being large it means when there is 1 it is big, admittedly I really still haven't got a good idea of how the land generation options really work or interact with each other.

Having spent quite a bit of time sailing in the real world, that does pretty much sum up the experience. You either go where the wind takes you and just kinda chill or you want to go a particular direction and you tack constantly, which does get annoying.

All things considered, I would much rather be able to sail to go long distances than try to hoof it, especially over rough terrain, but even forests are annoying AF to traverse with all the bushes.

Edited August 1, 2025 by Krougal

[Katherine K]

I was reading up on the temporal storm suggestions and I still had the sailing context in my head. And I had some ideas.

There being things in the water might really be the ticket here to make sailing engaging. It'd fit the mood extremely well, and will give the player something to do. But it has to be done right. Simply having things spawn and be like random mine fields you either run into randomly or have to constantly avoid would be awful. What I'm picturing is more like weather. Something you can see looming on the horizon like an approaching storm. Heck, it could be a literal storm, but worse.

I'm sort of seeing this as composed of two parts. One is just a new kind of enemy that lives in the water and attacks you whether you're swimming, rafting, or sailing. Perhaps, with more options to outrun it when sailing. (If wind direction becomes a factor, maybe you can only sail fast enough to escape in certain directions.) The crucial part is spawn conditions. It should show up only during a temporal storm.

The second part is these moving storms in the ocean. They could be like a weather phenomenon, but it might be more interesting to have another entity be at its center. This could be a leviathan or a ghost ship from the rust world. Honestly, the nature of the entity doesn't matter too much for this discussion. What would matter is that it can then respond to player and potentially give chase. I don't think it needs to be difficult to outrun it - just the fact that it can move to cut off the player if the player gets close enough is what matters here. The entity would be surrounded with darkness, thunder clouds above, stormy weather, and temporal storm conditions. Meaning, yes, you have to now worry about the water enemies popping out from any direction.

So what this does is add an element of planning as you're sailing. When you see a thunder cloud on the horizon, you have to ask yourself, do you want to risk it being just a regular weather or do you want to take a scenic route that avoids it all together? And if you decided to get closer, and you realize it's probably the bad kind of a storm, do you want to turn around now? Take a wide arc and hope it's going in a different direction? Or try to sneak by and hope it doesn't give chase, cutting you off? (Honestly, having the entity have a chance to notice you increase with boat's speed would be great here. Cutting sail to quarter, and hoping you can just make it would be amazing.)

With the right level of risk, the density of these storm entities, and ability to anticipate where it's going to go, this can be just the right level of engagement for long voyages. You still mostly point the boat in a direction and wait, but now you're watching the horizon, referencing the map, and maybe even looking for clues in the water if it's night and that's all you can see...

[Krougal]

Release the Kraken!

Yeah, @Katherine K I like those ideas.

[Eldhelion]

honestly, i don't want something to do, i want to get to the hypothetical there.

holding W may not be fun, but neither is long, and i mean long, distance travel, having to parkour up and down mountains, or having to increase the distance by going around mountain ranges meanwhile having to avoid, or fight wolves and bears.

sure an obstable here and there is fine, but i'm not asking to increase the scope of the game, nor for a solution  that will only arrive in 5 years.

the game already have everything it need, world settings and boats, and boats should not be locked away from new players that didnt knew better to change world settings before putting 300h into the game

[Krougal]

The oceans aren't really empty either, some of the best mining in this game is to be found under large lakes and oceans. 

1 hour ago, Eldhelion said:

honestly, i don't want something to do, i want to get to the hypothetical there.

holding W may not be fun, but neither is long, and i mean long, distance travel, having to parkour up and down mountains, or having to increase the distance by going around mountain ranges meanwhile having to avoid, or fight wolves and bears.

sure an obstable here and there is fine, but i'm not asking to increase the scope of the game, nor for a solution  that will only arrive in 5 years.

the game already have everything it need, world settings and boats, and boats should not be locked away from new players that didnt knew better to change world settings before putting 300h into the game

Well, in theory if you change your world gen settings, it should take effect on new chunks.

Now if you are using terrain gen mods and swapping them out, I can tell you from experience, you are not gonna like the results.

The transitions shouldn't be too bad between vanilla terrain gen changes.

 

[Cerehelm]

 

On 1.08.2025 at 02:13, LadyWYT said:

Witamy na forum! O ile wiem, domyślne ustawienia świata zostaną dostosowane w wersji 1.21, aby uwzględnić oceany, ponieważ teraz jest dostępna zawartość dla tak dużych zbiorników wodnych. Poza tym zgadzam się z tym, co…@Lugh Crow-Slave Jak już wspomniano – zawartość wodna wciąż pozostawia wiele do życzenia i wymaga dopracowania, zanim wprowadzi się zbyt wiele zmian. W przeciwnym razie gracze będą mieli mnóstwo wody, ale nie będą mieli z nią nic do roboty, co nie jest zbyt przyjemne.

Do mountains serve any purpose in this game? They're just obstacles and provide scenery. Walking over them is very tiring. More so than sailing.... Despite this, mountains are in the game... Oceans and large lakes don't have to serve any purpose—they'll also be obstacles to cross and elements of the beautiful landscape outside. They'll, however, add variety to maps that currently have bushes, hills, more bushes, more hills... Because it's not even about having "plenty" of water—there's almost none of it.

[LadyWYT]

28 minutes ago, Cerehelm said:

Do mountains serve any purpose in this game? They're just obstacles and provide scenery.

There are different flora and fauna you can find on mountaintops, as well as glaciers. Mountains are also required terrain for the first story location.

[Krougal]

5 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

There are different flora and fauna you can find on mountaintops, as well as glaciers. Mountains are also required terrain for the first story location.

I do wish they contained ore. Although I did find a halite column running up one in my current game. I was stunned to just run across surface halite, and I wouldn't have found it if I wasn't out playing with the propick looking for tin.

Needs to be gold in them thar hills!

Edited August 11, 2025 by Krougal

[LadyWYT]

1 hour ago, Krougal said:

I do wish they contained ore. Although I did find a halite column running up one in my current game. I was stunned to just run across surface halite, and I wouldn't have found it if I wasn't out playing with the propick looking for tin.

Needs to be gold in them thar hills!

Sometimes they do--it's easier to see exposed ore on the cliff faces. I've had fairly good luck getting decently high ore readings when prospecting around mountains as well. Sometimes you have to search around the base a little to find the sweet spot, but mountains do seem to be good places to prospect.

[Krougal]

32 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

Sometimes they do--it's easier to see exposed ore on the cliff faces. I've had fairly good luck getting decently high ore readings when prospecting around mountains as well. Sometimes you have to search around the base a little to find the sweet spot, but mountains do seem to be good places to prospect.

I guess it's random. I haven't much luck with them in the past, even with the x-ray.

[Facethief]

I don’t usually see much ore on mountains aside from the occasional surface copper, but I also don’t really bother prospecting in mountains. From what I understand of ore generation, they seem to just be more rock to dig through.

[Katherine K]

It looks like generation of most ore veins is based on the Y-level, rather than depth from the surface. While the shape of the vein itself can be based on the shape of the surface. I imagine, extreme height variations could push a portion of the vein that started generating at an appropriate Y-level to be partially above the sea level, but it has to be a fairly large, unusually high vein with very sharp variation in terrain. That's pretty unlikely. Especially, if you're interested in rarer, deeper ores. I haven't encountered anything that normally generates at lower Y-levels this way.

In contrast, yeah, because surface variations result in distortions of the vein, and many veins naturally generate as a disk by default, if you hit one in the flat area, you just dig out the vein horizontally, having to dig through hardly any empty rock. Whereas in the mountains, the vein will keep shifting up and down from you, often requiring you to get through a lot more rock to get to it. And you end up creating more conditions for cave-ins (if you have these enabled) and unlit areas for monsters to spawn.

I generally go where the prospecting pick takes me, but I do much prefer digging in the flatter areas for the above reasons.

[Krougal]

5 hours ago, Katherine K said:

It looks like generation of most ore veins is based on the Y-level, rather than depth from the surface. While the shape of the vein itself can be based on the shape of the surface. I imagine, extreme height variations could push a portion of the vein that started generating at an appropriate Y-level to be partially above the sea level, but it has to be a fairly large, unusually high vein with very sharp variation in terrain. That's pretty unlikely. Especially, if you're interested in rarer, deeper ores. I haven't encountered anything that normally generates at lower Y-levels this way.

In contrast, yeah, because surface variations result in distortions of the vein, and many veins naturally generate as a disk by default, if you hit one in the flat area, you just dig out the vein horizontally, having to dig through hardly any empty rock. Whereas in the mountains, the vein will keep shifting up and down from you, often requiring you to get through a lot more rock to get to it. And you end up creating more conditions for cave-ins (if you have these enabled) and unlit areas for monsters to spawn.

I generally go where the prospecting pick takes me, but I do much prefer digging in the flatter areas for the above reasons.

Yeah, they should add veins for mountains, like MC wound up doing at some point. The existing gen is left alone and you make new entries for the high altitudes.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

58 minutes ago, Krougal said:

Yeah, they should add veins for mountains, like MC wound up doing at some point. The existing gen is left alone and you make new entries for the high altitudes.

that actually sounds dope... mountainous ore veins... and it gives you a reason to explore the mountains

[Katherine K]

5 hours ago, Krougal said:

The existing gen is left alone and you make new entries for the high altitudes.

That or double down on the idea of geological formation and strata, and simply base it on height from the surface. Seems like if land was brought up by geological activity, so would mineral deposits. Though, to be fair, I don't know enough geology to be certain about this. My picture of how the mountains form might be a bit too naive.

[Krougal]

14 minutes ago, Katherine K said:

That or double down on the idea of geological formation and strata, and simply base it on height from the surface. Seems like if land was brought up by geological activity, so would mineral deposits. Though, to be fair, I don't know enough geology to be certain about this. My picture of how the mountains form might be a bit too naive.

Well as it is now, there are multiple sets of entries for generation for some ores, shallow and deep.

So this would be a third set. I think it would be accurate, or at least as accurate as the game is now.

I don't know enough about geology to be certain how any of it works either, so I'm in the same boat as you.