v1.21.0-rc.5/rc.6 - Story Chapter 2 Redux

[Dorf]

26 minutes ago, alberto_ascani said:

The problem is explicitly stated and refers to other posts in the forum. In any case, looking at the screenshots, it doesn't seem that difficult to deduce that those lines separating the fields are a problem. Furthermore, in previous versions it doesn't seem to have been so pronounced; in fact, in 1.19, it seems to me that biomes were generated much more carefully and spontaneously. That said, the fact that the problem is persistent doesn't mean it shouldn't be reported again.

Terrain generation has always been a bit wonky. 90% beautiful but 10% weird generation. I'm happy for that to be left on the backburner for now as it is likely a massive undertaking with wide-reaching consequences if they start making big changes to it. I don't support causing a major delay to the stable release for this as it has already been a long wait and I imagine modders are pulling their teeth out waiting to update their mods only to get hit with yet another candidate release. I've been holding off for a long time now to start a new game and honestly just want to get back into the game. Too many prime weekends have passed me by already.

[Maelstrom]

1 hour ago, Krougal said:

Maybe that's why we're making a stink about it. It is a higher priority for some of us.

Mind you I didn't say it wasn't an issue for me.   Even worse than that straight line edge is a very definitive circular arc

[Krougal]

4 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Mind you I didn't say it wasn't an issue for me.   Even worse than that straight line edge is a very definitive circular arc

I know, you just made a good point about priorities.

I admit the ugly straight line is not really what bothers me either, as I consider it just a symptom of bad worldgen.

It is no joke or exaggeration that frustration with worldgen made me set this game aside for months.

I still don't know if anything was changed for the better with 1.21 or RNGesus just took pity on me and handed me the winning lottery ticket.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Edited August 18, 2025 by Krougal

[Echo Weaver]

Have you guys tried one of the worldgen overhaul mods? The ones that look popular on the mod database is Terra Prety and Vanilla+. Do either of those help with worldgen issues like this?

[alberto_ascani]

13 minutes ago, Echo Weaver said:

Avete mai provato una delle mod di revisione della generazione del mondo? Quelle che sembrano popolari nel database delle mod sono Terra Prety e Vanilla+. Qualcuna di queste aiuta con problemi di generazione del mondo come questo?

Hi dear, I tried them and they are quite good, but the problem with the gravel persists and I would like to wait a moment for them to update them for the new generation (it seems to me that they propose too many standard biomes)

[Krougal]

20 minutes ago, Echo Weaver said:

Have you guys tried one of the worldgen overhaul mods? The ones that look popular on the mod database is Terra Prety and Vanilla+. Do either of those help with worldgen issues like this?

I have used pretty much all of them. Vanilla+ more early on, and actually I probably liked it better.

I've used Terra Prety quite a bit too but wasn't thrilled with it.

Most people who make worldgen mods want bigger more realistic looking mountains and recommend playing with the worldheight maxed out, and that is just not for me.

I think voxel game devs tend to restrain themselves because when the game lags to shit it makes them look bad, and lots of blocks tend to add to that. I like to keep my view distance as high as possible and my framerate constant. I prefer smaller tweaks than large sweeping changes.

My main gripes are also the typical lack of variety in rock strata. Large areas of sameness do nothing for me.

While I love mountains IRL (I'll be in beautiful Bulgaria for the next 3 weeks in fact, where there is a saying; pansies grow in the valleys, men grow in the mountains), IG I really have nothing good to say about them. Bad performance. Pain to traverse with none of the feeling of accomplishment you get IRL. Lack of ore.

Yes, you heard right, you're all getting a 3 week break from me.

[alberto_ascani]

Come on people, what is this stuff, 4-5 different fields, mixed with straight lines...

[Fistandantilus]

On 8/16/2025 at 10:58 AM, Akari_Enderwolf said:

This seems like an odd decision to do. I feel like they should at a minimum have a 10% chance to drop food, with a variance of up to dropping 2 raw fish, rather than no chance at all to drop anything.

That would keep them as a less than ideal source of food compared to other fish and animals, without removing drops from them entirely.

• "Tweak: Reduced reef fish flee radius so you can see them closer.  Drops reduced to 0, since they're much easier to kill." 

FULLY AGREED, as I am for all fishing and aquatic styles of self sustainability, this is a huge letdown to me as it indicates the Devs are against that thinking. How is a game based on realism to this extent going to ignore human history regarding our dependance on the ocean? that's extremely non-congruent. Sad sigh. 

[Ginnunga]

15 hours ago, alberto_ascani said:

Come on people, what is this stuff, 4-5 different fields, mixed with straight lines...

While I understand your gripes with the straight lines, and sometimes frustrating world gen.

I fail to see the issue with the multiple fields, the only field that seems out of place here is the one the trader is on. All the other look natural and create interesting intersection of multiple rock types.

The straight lines in this screenshot are very localised to the bottom centre of the screenshot, and most of them aren't perfectly straight, making it seem more like nitpicking than pointing out poor/faulty generation. 

Generally speaking I do agree it is possible to come across large straight lines in gravel/sand biomes, but most of the ones I saw where small straight lines that were 'acceptable', keeping in mind that sometimes 'better/perfect is the enemy of good'. Especially with generating worlds, adding more layers to the generation can ruin it further, or be much more cost intensive which would be another problem, or work out, but it's tough to know what the result would be without investing time.

I do think that during world gen, rock strata should overlap and not be distinct biomes, creating regions of mixed rock/gravel/sand. It might fix the problem of straight lines and I feel it would be more 'natural' to see biomes blend with each other rather than have distinct boundaries.

[alberto_ascani]

3 hours ago, Ginnunga said:

Anche se capisco le tue lamentele riguardo alle linee rette e alla generazione del mondo a volte frustrante.

Non riesco a vedere il problema con i campi multipli, l'unico campo che sembra fuori posto qui è quello su cui si trova il commerciante. Tutti gli altri sembrano naturali e creano un'interessante intersezione di più tipi di roccia.

Le linee rette in questo screenshot sono molto localizzate nella parte centrale inferiore dello screenshot e la maggior parte di esse non sono perfettamente dritte, il che fa sembrare più un cavillo che un'indicazione di una generazione scadente/difettosa. 

In generale, sono d'accordo sul fatto che sia possibile imbattersi in ampie linee rette nei biomi di ghiaia/sabbia, ma la maggior parte di quelli che ho visto erano piccole linee rette "accettabili", tenendo presente che a volte "meglio/perfetto è nemico del buono". Soprattutto con la generazione di mondi, aggiungere più livelli alla generazione può rovinarla ulteriormente, o essere molto più costoso, il che rappresenterebbe un altro problema, o potrebbe funzionare, ma è difficile prevedere quale sarebbe il risultato senza investire tempo.

Penso che durante la generazione del mondo, gli strati rocciosi dovrebbero sovrapporsi e non essere distinti in biomi, creando regioni miste di roccia/ghiaia/sabbia. Potrebbe risolvere il problema delle linee rette e ritengo che sarebbe più "naturale" vedere i biomi fondersi tra loro piuttosto che avere confini distinti.

No, sorry, but the lines I showed are hundreds of blocks long, and straight lines are a problem, circular ones are. I also don't know if you realize how many there are and how extensive they are on the map, lol. It honestly seems to me that you haven't done generation tests. Also, if in that specific case you don't believe that different sands or gravels should intersect every few blocks, creating a sort of carnival costume on the map, well, okay bro. Also, it might be acceptable but not compared to the previous generation of the world. If this remains the case, I'll wait for the next versions before returning. Nobody is looking for perfection but something coherent and immersive

[Raiback]

super!

[Akari_Enderwolf]

15 hours ago, Fistandantilus said:

• "Tweak: Reduced reef fish flee radius so you can see them closer.  Drops reduced to 0, since they're much easier to kill." 

FULLY AGREED, as I am for all fishing and aquatic styles of self sustainability, this is a huge letdown to me as it indicates the Devs are against that thinking. How is a game based on realism to this extent going to ignore human history regarding our dependance on the ocean? that's extremely non-congruent. Sad sigh. 

I already added the drops back with my mod, 20% instead of the 10 I said here originally. If people want it I might make the drop% for the raw fish configurable in a future update, from 0-100%.

[Akari_Enderwolf]

2 hours ago, alberto_ascani said:

No, sorry, but the lines I showed are hundreds of blocks long, and straight lines are a problem, circular ones are. I also don't know if you realize how many there are and how extensive they are on the map, lol. It honestly seems to me that you haven't done generation tests. Also, if in that specific case you don't believe that different sands or gravels should intersect every few blocks, creating a sort of carnival costume on the map, well, okay bro. Also, it might be acceptable but not compared to the previous generation of the world. If this remains the case, I'll wait for the next versions before returning. Nobody is looking for perfection but something coherent and immersive

the picture just looks like a painted desert to me. the only major straight lines I see are, like they said, the bottom middle of the image.

[alberto_ascani]

13 minutes ago, Akari_Enderwolf said:

the picture just looks like a painted desert to me. the only major straight lines I see are, like they said, the bottom middle of the image.

It's really hard to talk like this, though. When you want to extrapolate something so as not to hear the general criticism. The post refers to a series of comments and images by me and other users. Also, I repeat: "if in that specific case you don't believe that different sands or gravels should intersect every few blocks, creating a sort of carnival costume on the map, well, okay bro. Also, it might be acceptable but not compared to the previous generation of the world. If this remains the case, I'll wait for the next versions before returning. Nobody is looking for perfection but something coherent and immersive"

P.S.
Often there are straight lines but also circles or ovals that are the same as straight lines

[Akari_Enderwolf]

38 minutes ago, alberto_ascani said:

It's really hard to talk like this, though. When you want to extrapolate something so as not to hear the general criticism. The post refers to a series of comments and images by me and other users. Also, I repeat: "if in that specific case you don't believe that different sands or gravels should intersect every few blocks, creating a sort of carnival costume on the map, well, okay bro. Also, it might be acceptable but not compared to the previous generation of the world. If this remains the case, I'll wait for the next versions before returning. Nobody is looking for perfection but something coherent and immersive"

P.S.
Often there are straight lines but also circles or ovals that are the same as straight lines

It's not that hard for me to talk like that though? Legit that just looks like a painted desert to me other than that one square area, plus I actually like the mountain in an earlier picture in the thread. That's just how the rock strata generates. There are plenty of other things I think could be improved in the worldgen, like adding Rivers and Waterfalls and stuff, which I think would go a long way toward making it better as a whole.

[Krougal]

8 minutes ago, Akari_Enderwolf said:

It's not that hard for me to talk like that though? Legit that just looks like a painted desert to me other than that one square area, plus I actually like the mountain in an earlier picture in the thread. That's just how the rock strata generates. There are plenty of other things I think could be improved in the worldgen, like adding Rivers and Waterfalls and stuff, which I think would go a long way toward making it better as a whole.

Alberto is translating to and from Italian and some of it might be getting lost in translation.

[alberto_ascani]

47 minutes ago, Akari_Enderwolf said:

Non è poi così difficile per me parlare così? A dire il vero, a parte quell'area quadrata, mi sembra solo un deserto dipinto, e in più mi piace la montagna in un'immagine precedente nel thread. È così che si generano gli strati rocciosi. Ci sono molte altre cose che penso potrebbero essere migliorate nella generazione del mondo, come l'aggiunta di fiumi e cascate e cose del genere, che credo contribuirebbero notevolmente a renderlo migliore nel complesso.

Sorry it's true some things make sense in my language and less in English. I've already expressed my criticisms, and as for the mountain, the criticism was the number, not so much the aesthetics. There are some spots where these "stalagmites" spawn close together, and it's cool, but they often spawn 100 blocks apart, and it becomes too much. For the rest, I completely agree, but this thread was about criticisms of the previous generation, not suggestions for improvement in general.

Edited August 19, 2025 by alberto_ascani
Errors

[alberto_ascani]

39 minutes ago, Krougal said:

Alberto is translating to and from Italian and some of it might be getting lost in translation.

I generally try not to translate but literally some things make sense in Italian and not in English hahahhha

[PandaBearJelly]

On 8/18/2025 at 8:50 AM, alberto_ascani said:

No, I'm sorry, but I disagree. If you don't notice a problem, there's a problem. The gravel shouldn't be so invasive, but that's a matter of taste. The problem is how it integrates and the transitions from one area to another, cut with a ruler. This is OBJECTIVELY a problem, unless God created the world during a technical drawing course.

 

This is objectively not objective lol. While I would agree it could be more organic, your issue might just be that you're looking at your map too much. When you're traversing at ground level, it's pretty difficult to see the pattern. Again, I'm all for them adjusting this, but it's hardly a game-breaking issue. 

Edited August 19, 2025 by PandaBearJelly

[PandaBearJelly]

On 8/18/2025 at 2:07 PM, alberto_ascani said:

Come on people, what is this stuff, 4-5 different fields, mixed with straight lines...

I'll also add that different types of lithologic boundaries occur naturally all around the planet. It's not rare. Again, the game could improve things a touch but it's not really that far off. Here are some quick snapshots of Utah for example.

Edited August 19, 2025 by PandaBearJelly

[Akari_Enderwolf]

2 hours ago, Krougal said:

Alberto is translating to and from Italian and some of it might be getting lost in translation.

ah, I did not realize that. Sorry @alberto_ascani if anything I said came off aggressive or confusing, as I know translation stuff isn't always accurate.

[alberto_ascani]

46 minutes ago, PandaBearJelly said:

I'll also add that different types of lithologic boundaries occur naturally all around the planet. It's not rare. Again, the game could improve things a touch but it's not really that far off. Here are some quick snapshots of Utah for example.

I'm reposting a previous thread: "Yes, exactly, it's not just a question of gameplay but also aesthetics. There are too many of them, and too often, not even that big. They're unattractive and make gameplay frustrating in terms of establishing a foundation. The fact that biomes like that exist in the world, which aren't exactly like that, honestly doesn't interest me at all. It's a game, not real life. The "realism" I'm talking about is related to how things integrate with each other—e.g., the straight lines separating gravel biomes. Extreme realism is only a value for those who have no idea how a game is developed. So, why is it set up so that 97.5% of the world is land and not that 71% or more is water?"
You people really mistake video game realism for real life realism lol

[alberto_ascani]

1 hour ago, PandaBearJelly said:

This is objectively not objective lol. While I would agree it could be more organic, your issue might just be that you're looking at your map too much. When you're traversing at ground level, it's pretty difficult to see the pattern. Again, I'm all for them adjusting this, but it's hardly a game-breaking issue. 

Yes, it's objective with respect to the aesthetic pact the developers have decided to give the game. I'm a little tired of repeating myself. No one wants perfection or says it's the game's problem, but it seriously compromises the previous generation and severely undermines the most beautiful component of Vintage Story: the aesthetics of the bases. I've repeated dozens of times that the problem isn't the biome or the single thing, but how many there are within a short distance. I repeat, this is objective with respect to the aesthetic coherence of the game. Then again, obviously everyone has their own tastes, and that would be a shame.

[alberto_ascani]

22 minutes ago, Akari_Enderwolf said:

ah, I did not realize that. Sorry @alberto_ascani if anything I said came off aggressive or confusing, as I know translation stuff isn't always accurate.

No problem, I think it's all clear. I'm just saying the same thing because I try to reply to everyone but no one recovers the threads above hahahahah I'm a little tired

[alberto_ascani]

On 18/08/2025 at 21:34, Echo Weaver said:

Avete mai provato una delle mod di revisione della generazione del mondo? Quelle che sembrano popolari nel database delle mod sono Terra Prety e Vanilla+. Qualcuna di queste aiuta con problemi di generazione del mondo come questo?

Yes friend and unfortunately not the problems related to the new generation