NastyFlytrap

Okay but most of those things have nice explanations in the handbook, which this proposed rework sorely needs, otherwise i feel it would make sense only to us, the ones 'in the know', which, yes, most of us, the main community, have a good, wide general knowledge of everything in this world, but there are still people out there who are more mainstream and not that familiar with niche fields like metallurgy. If there was a nice handbook guide for this, then thats good enough. Something to match what we already have.

Okay, so its just an opinion on the wording of his mechanics. Alright, this i like. That being said, as someone who is mostly familiar with metallurgy, the idea of the player intuitively figuring it out would work out for me, but would it go like that for someone who knows nothing about metallic alloys, metalworking, material science, etc?

Okay, so, in your opinion, what does Hardness and Brittleness mean in terms of game mechanics?

I-, well, yeah, as far as i understand the original suggestion said something like this but the original suggestion gave it some depth, like different stats depending on how perfectly you get the temperature and the quenching times right, etc, while to me, yours just sounded like a 'you did quench? Here's a flat bonus', kinda mechanic which is too simplistic. I want it to have depth. I really liked the idea of the player having to estimate the temperature from the colour of it, like a real blacksmith, and depending how close you get to the sweet spot your stats get better or worse.

Alright, so, how would the system work exactly? The player gets one quench and temper to get bonuses and thats all? Just one flat bonus at the end of it all? Unless they want to redo it but then it erases everything and starts from scratch so it doesnt really make a difference. I dont know how the actual practical gameplay steps would look like.

I dont know. Maybe i'm just misinterpreting what he wrote but this sounds like a 'quench temper then requench retemper' ad infinitum system, until your tool is either broken or you have enough to your liking.

I still stand by the view that the current implementation is not fun and yours would be much better.

Honestly, with an analogue system where instead of it being flat bonuses and negatives for doing the steps, it giving more or less benefit depending on how close to the correct temperature zone you were with your process sounds exactly like the semi-realistic mechanics this game is going for. I want this to be the system in the game now.

This. I'm here for a good time. This game shouldnt have mechanics that subconsciously play with the functions of your brain to do something you'd choose to not do if your monkey brain didnt make you do it.

Honestly, the ideal solution here, for a semi-realistic feel, which Vintage Story is intending to aim towards, would be to make a system where you can quench and temper and you have to balance how much you want of one, at the cost of reducing the other. This system would have a cap of 100% you can freely split between quenching and tampering for downsides and upsides. Normalizing would just be the base for both of these to operate on.

I still hate the idea of 'roll a dice X number of times and if you get unlucky you have to make a fresh tool'. That is peak gacha game BS and has no place in this game. Also, i really dont think the current system of doing it over and over is realistic. OP said it right.

This is a valid point. Even if we dont go with these ways, i do agree that it just needs a rework completely, and in all honesty, while i am ambivalent towards the actual changes suggested by this post, i support the ideas of less repetition, it losing everything if you heat it too much since it softens up, making the whole mechanic have more depth, and doing that with more skill and knowhow, although im not sure how you'd do that last one, but i like it as an idea.

I mean, we could just.... Tag them. A bit rude, but certainly effective.

Yes and now is the perfect time to work on it some more before they move on to other things and it stays like this for three years until it gets reworked. Meh. Never cared for the class system and taking that ability away from the player now would just be rude. That being said, i am all for more diegetic methods and systems.

I agree with this. The way quenching and tempering is implemented is anti-fun. I dont like it and it needs to go. I'm all for quenching and tampering but not like this and you lay out some good ways to do it.