Crylum

@Seyko Yes, having a bundle of interconnected water mechanics was also my initial goal as well. I had only spilt the topics into separate threada make it easier to people (and myself) to keeping track on new suggestions and feedback. If we are aiming to implement the mechnics you had discribed, than yes a completely rework the water mechanics would be necessary. This will of cause be a lot of work for the devs, therefore I believe our suggestion need to be very precise and thought out to justify the effort. My initial plan was to create a "supplementary water system" adding additionial function to the game but keeping the old mechanics to reduce implemenation effort. That said, neither "system" we both suggested is superior than the other (well unless we go full into realism, than clearly yours is the best option, no discussion). It is like you said: More or less, yes. Of cause there is guarantee that the dev will implement any of the ideas we suggested, simular to the they had point out in thier roadmap. Alternatively we could also join the discord channels (I am not sure, if posting in the forum or discord is better). For sure, there is always the option that we or someone else may create a mod based on the requirement/idea we posted. @Thorfinn had tested a small part of the wier mechanics I had described and found edge cases, which was very helpful to me to refine the overall concept. The original problem I wanted to solve was to create a hub thread which joins all the many different ideas, posts and discussions into one place. I think if enough people keep discussing about this it may draw attention of the devs. But in the end, no matter what we come up with and no matter how smart it may seem, everything we post here are only suggestions. We need to accept and respect the creative vision of @Tyron and the dev team, even if that means that our suggestion are never added to the game.

@JYAR Terraria was one of the initial inspirations for the Extending water mechanics - Wiers & Irrigation furrows/ditches thread. That and the fact that the place where I live has weirs and drainage canal (valley gets flooded pretty much every time is rains). Good call with the block layering could be an way to implement is, also is would may implementing my water tower idea possible

@Seyko Well, the game has a simplified mechanic with the different regional rainfall. Your idea is more realistic for sure, but will (most likely) required rewriting parts of the code. I get the idea, it would make watering crops easier as you no longer have to make sure to place a water source every two block for "optimal" (75%) irrigation. Water slowly moving to neighbor block could be interesting, espesically if we would like to add ground water that the player can tap (for wells maybe?) I am only a bit worried about game performance and the amount of generate world data, which needs to be store somehow, if you exit the game. If my information are correct, a chunk is 32x32x32 = 32768 blocks. The default world height is 256 block, therefore 256 / 32 = 8 chunks per chunk column. 8 chunks * 32768 = 262144 blocks. Ok to be fair, "air blocks" would not need to store this info, meaning that the actual amount of block data would be lower. Also you could limit the depth the water can penetrat to reduce the amount of data even more (let's say only the dirt layer and 2-3 layers blow or 1-2 chunks). But personally I would leave this evaluation to the devs or someone more experienced in how the engine works. I am only making guesses/suggestions. There is a mod for rivers: https://mods.vintagestory.at/rivergen . But pretty sure that the dev will eventually add river, water wheel etc. in some update in the future. It might be possible that this mechanics already exist in the game (but I could be mistaken). I have not yet traveled far enough to reach the warm/hot bioms, to test this. Anyway, the game already has an water "evaporation system" for farmland block, so adjusting this mechnic based on climate/biome should be a simple change. See RiverGen Good idea, will add you suggestion to the sub-thread regarding sailboat & canals. The only thing we need to be careful is not to create an infinite water setup, as this can potentially open a way for exploits and griefing.

@Echo Weaver Yes, unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an alternative to the “move water source block with bucket” method right now. I've been researching the forum and talking to other Vintarians to find out what their opinions are on this subject and I created an overview thread that refers to related topics and ideas from the community, in case you want to check it out But in case of you idea "digging a well" please see this

Having a Draisine would be good, if the player want to drive around and to push minecarts arround, unless you can use animal to pull it (donkeys are used in coal mine in some countries till today). And for anyone does not want to let their donkey worked for themself, we could used a windmill/waterwheel power pulley system which slowly pulls up, the cart, like @Kiptrix had mentioned: Also the slope the cart needs to drive up should not be to steep

@Kiptrix @Asreal Greetings from 2025, I guess I am a bit late to the party. Both the chain and rope system are really well though out. I had posted a simular idea here Also the hinge idea would be great for anyone trying to build mega scale build, where the in game large doors would be to small to fit into the build. The retractable drawbridge fits the ancient / medial inspired design of the game pretty well I think.

At the beginning I was always wonder why my guy was consuming food like a black hole. It took me a bit to figure out by myself. The game clearly states it in you character menu, but new player are simple unaware of it. Once you know it, you can deal with it, but just imagine this in real life, you standing at the bus/train stop, you grap your phone to check the time and Boom! You lost 10 kg, two seconds later. You collapse, instant death caused by starvation. (Of course it's not that bad in the game, I exaggerated a little)

I though about this idea and think the flywheel is not really a thing used in ancient time, more industial revolution. They have used spinning wheels for pottery though, so maybe clay could somewhat automate clay forming? First idea I had was to add ways to store windmill power. Let's say you have some kind of heavy weight, which get lifted if the windmill is spinning, via and pulley and rope winding mechanism. It will eventually reach the top of the mechanism and if wind is low, you can release the weight, which get pulled down by gravity, releasing the energy back into the system (simular to a grandfather clock) Second idea, have an Archimede's screw which "pumps" water upwards and store it some reservoir/water town. Water can that be released to power an water wheel

@idiomcritter yeah, would be good to get some warning signal before the catastrophe strikes

For context This thread discusses the introductions of pipes for water transport. Please also see: related water mechnics ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Problem Transporting large amounts of water from point A to B (without the bucket). How would you do that? You may be thinking about building and aqueduct or ditches to dedirect water but due to the rather short flow range of water this can become a bit complicated (or totally impossible) ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Idea Reusing the already existing copper chute as pipes? (suggested by @Never Jhonsen) for medium range transport Or adding lead pipes to the game (as they where used in ancient times, also suggested by @Never Jhonsen), which could give lead an new function steam power in game Design and concepts * lead pipe variants * build idea, house with rain gutter, pipes and water collector * water town providing water to pipe system. water in the tank will slowly decrease to water crops. Play can (dis) connect parts of the pipe network by opening/closing valves (see wooden handle bar) ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ How it works to be dicussed, open for suggestions Ideas rain gutter and water collection barrel rain gutter catches rain, which can then be used to water your crops player can pick up water for the barret and add it to the water tower pipes connect to spring to fill up water tower two different types of pipe: transport pipe and irrigation pipes ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Feedback New ideas, suggestion? Just let me know! ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ That's all for now! Best, Crylum

@Tyron Hi, I was a bit hesitant at first to write you directly, as I am sure you and the other devs are quite busy working on the game and I did not want to waste you time. I just want to see what devs think of my suggestions. Like I had stated above, the goal was to create an extension of the default water mechanics (without breaking the old), Ideally all small additions should interconnected with each other and other water features (maybe the water wheel etc.). Best, Crylum

For context Thread discussed the idea of introducting aqueducts to the game Please also see: water mechnics main thread (HUB) - related water mechnics ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Problem Transporting water (without the bucket) over long distances is almost impossible in the currenty base game, unless you want to spent tons of time running back and forth. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Idea Allow players to build aqueduct Aqueducts will preferably use the same new water mechanics as descriped in this post > How it works @majestik suggested: adding reservoirs like cisterns to be able to store water. Like the real life aqueduct where will be use for long distance transport of water and may conncet to other water system like reservoirs, pipes or to feed water to you farm irrigation ditches * Initial aqueduct canal design ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Requirements / Limitation to not introduce even more complicated mechanic, I would suggest that we stick to the new water mechanic, @Thorfinn I and discussed this post > How it works 1x1x1 block, the inner wall is "U"- shaped A aqueduct canal section can only be 42 block long, after that you need to reduct the height of the follow up aqueduct by 1. You will be able to branch of/turn in 90°, creating intersections ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Technology minestones needed Some of the material the player need to create the inner wall lining of the aqueduct can only be acquired once they are able to make copper tool and quern. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ What material can be used to build the Aqueduct? Material 1 - Screed (plaster) The romans used opus signinum, a kind of waterproof screed Screed is mainly made from pulverized lime, sand and marl (the romans also used crushed pottery or bricks). We do not have screed in the game, but plaster which comes close enough, so we could just use it instead. Problems: Based on the VS wiki plaster can be made form chalk or limestone + any type of sand, but if chalk or limestone is not available in your region, option 1 is completely out of the picture. Original souce here | Dumb side note: It is kind of a bummer that the company did not use the name Need for screed underground. Other company name suggestion: Assassin's screed or Mortar Kombat (or Mörtel Kombat, for all german speaking folks) ________________________________________________________________________ Material 2 - Inner lining made from fired and glazed clay Player can form an aqueduct wall lining/canal block using any type of clay. This block need to be fired, then glaze need to be applied and the block has to be fired a second time to make is waterproof. Glaze can be create in a barrel by mixxing water and *concept block: left - plaster | mid - red glazed fired clay | right - blue glazed fired clay Based on what our AI overlords say, a ceramic glaze ... "consists mainly of finely ground quartz sand, to which various minerals and oxides are added depending on the type of glaze. This mixture is then processed with water to form a slurry and applied to the ceramic." Possible glaze ingredients Wikipedia states that common traditional glazes are made from: potash, feldspar, lead, salt, tin and lime [Yes, but] Lime: a good option, but only if available (has same problem as mentioned in Material 1) [Yes, but] Quarz: real life glazes use it, quarz is quite common, can be found while panning (ok, this would be very inefficient), Problem: cannot be crushed by quern [Yes, but] Stone/Sand: I only did some quick research so this statement may be incorrect: Most stones seem to contain some amount of quarz - option is cheap, however a bit unrealistic [Maybe] Potash: is not in the game, so currently not an option, but technically easy to get [Maybe] Salt: only if available [Mabye] Lead: has not many uses right now, so could be an option [No] Tin: player will definitely spend their tin on tools instead of glaze [No] Feldspar: is not in the game, so currently not an option Glaze alternatives (not realistic) beeswax, resin, fat Reason to have this option Lime and chalk may not be available in your region Lime is important for leather making, therefore player will most likely priotize this and not spent any lime for aqueduct constuction. Pottery becomes more or less irrelevant player has access to metal, to would give clay an new use Problems: Having to fired the block two times and creating glaze can be a long of effort, depending on the aquedct length ________________________________________________________________________ Material 3 - Use raw clay This would be the simple option, as clay is cheap and plentyful, but not very realistic ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Problem/Open questions What is the max lenght an aqueduct can have? 42 blocks, like inital suggested? Trying to be close to real life, ancient roman aqueduct had a gradient/slope of between 0.15% and 0.3% using in game water slope = run / rise -> 6 blocks / (7/8) of a block -> 6 meter / 0.875 meter ~ 6,8571 ~ 6.86% Should the aqueduct have static or flowing water? How long can one section of the aqueduct be until you have to lower it by one block (we are simulation the "slope", because water want to flow down hill) How to detect if water in aqueduct canal got dammed up or broken? Check every block @Crylum add better explanation here, see comments Check every chunk @Crylum add better explanation here, see comments How to handle aqueducts in unloaded chunks? Can the water inside the canal freeze? ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Feedback New ideas, suggestion? Just let me know in the comments below! ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ That's all for now! Best, Crylum

For context Please also see: related water mechnics I am aware that we already have hot springs in the game but I would like to add a small variety of new water sources ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Idea 1: Ground water I believe adding a dedicated water layer covering the whole map would be to annoying, therefore I would suggest having "bean shaped" water deposits inside or a couple of blocks below the dirt (simular to how some ore are generated), which can be tapped. You will be able to find them by just wandering around and drilling down. Also you will be able to create a well simular of the shown in Hydrate or Diedrate - https://mods.vintagestory.at/hydrateordiedrate (see well image) * ground water is pushed up * side view: dirt blocks replaced by glass to show water below ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Idea 2: Ground water At higher altitudes, like mountain springs will be generated (while testing in game I readly found this, but I was not sure if this was coincidence or if spring are already a feature) This water soucre can ideally be use in combination of the new aqueduct feature (thread for this still need to be create, will follow soon) ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Feedback New ideas, suggestion? Just let me know! ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ That's all for now! Best, Crylum

@Thorfinn Yeah, I am also still trying to figure out a good solution. So one block, hmm. Say, does the wier block need to be exactly one block? Or can is be something like the doors (2 high)? Or can the model exceed it. like shown below?

For Context This thread will mainly be used to discuss and organize ideas and feedback related to the (new) water mechanics features other Vintarians have posted. Keeping track of multiple different topics/features in one thread gets a bit messy, therefore I decided to split everything into destinct posts (see listed Topics below). ______________________________________________________ Feedback For feeback related to the already existing topcis below, please add your comments inside the dedicated thread. You want to add a new topic/features/ideas or you are unsure where to add it? Just add your idea in the comment section below. Or just send me the link to the existing page, so that I can add it in the section other threads discussing this. ______________________________________________________ Limitations for suggestions: You idea should preferably... have something to do with water mechanics. be in line with the lore of the game be somewhat grounded in realism (no inifinite setups - simpsons quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuxbMfKO9Pg) ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Story Have you every found great localion, where you wanted to build but there were no rivers, lake or oceans close by? Tired of walking hunderts of blocks to fetch larger quantities of water and transport them back? Want to driving around with you new sail boot but most water bodies are disconnected from each other? Farmland are not irrigated because it does not rain enough in you region? Well, good luck trying to find a high up water source to redirect water to you base using the old stair method Many Vintarian had pointed out that you can enable the option to allow transporting of water source block via buckets. End of story! Well.... moving one cubic meter of water in an 10 liter bucket? Does not sound very realistic. Also many agreed that Water source blocks shouldn’t be moveable. I would like to suggest an alternative solution to the bucket, allow player to erect aqueducts and build sail boat canals, dig irrigation ditches and like the games says, let them "relive the advent of human civilization" by harvesting the power of ancient (water) technologies. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Topics/threads SIMPLE try to stay as close to the current in game water mechanics, only chaning existing mechnics or adding new functions if really neccessary COMPLEX aims to completely replace the current in game water mechanic with a more realistic water physics Originally only the SIMPLE topics (suggested by @Crylum) where planned to be combined into a bundle of interconnected features. That said, we are looking for ways to potentially join both simple and COMPLEX topics into one overarching concept. Link │ Complexity │ Description Extending water mechanics - Wiers & Irrigation furrows/ditches │ SIMPLE │ • partially tested in game _______________ Improving sailboat usability - Canals, sluices and boat lifts │ SIMPLE │ • initial concept done Long distance water transport - Aqueduct and reservoirs │ SIMPLE │ • Existing mods: https://mods.vintagestory.at/hardcorewater Medium range water transport (Late game) - Pipes and valves │ SIMPLE │ • initial concept done Erosion mechcanics │ TBD │ • coming soon, open for suggestion Reservoirs: Water tower, Cistern etc. │ TBD │ • coming soon, open for suggestion Tweak/problems with current water mechanic │ TBD │ • coming soon, open for suggestion Developing "Advanced Hydrodynamics" │ COMPLEX │ • suggest by @Seyko and community members on discord chat Idea is to have more realistic water physics and naturall water cycle. All water sources, like lakes, ponds etc. will have an finite amount of water. Only naturall occuring water sources like springs and "renewable". Water will be able to flow freely, fill holes in the ground or flood caves Rain will slowly refill bodies of water, ground water, barrels, buckets and other reservoirs Too much rain can cause flooding and maybe even erosion of dirt, gravel and sand (river may transform the landscape). Oceans are infinite source of water due to performance and the fact that salt water cannot be used for crop irrigations or cooking Dams to power a water wheel and in case the player has a surplus in windmill power they could use pumps to move water up the dam to store it for later use Possible mod integration: Hydrate or Diedrate ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Other threads discussing this or suggestions by the community (not listed under section Topics/threads) New water mechancis - community suggestions ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Standalone mods related to water mechanics Waterfall - https://mods.vintagestory.at/waterfall Rivergen - https://mods.vintagestory.at/rivergen Hardcore Water - https://mods.vintagestory.at/hardcorewater Hydrate or Diedrate - https://mods.vintagestory.at/hydrateordiedrate ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ That's all for now! Best, Crylum

But silly jokes aside, what about introducing a flywheel, which stores surplus of power for later use?

@traugdor source: maximum speeeeeed!

@Nootman about the furrow/ditch irrigation, I have been working on a simular ideas over the fast day, you can check it out here, if you are interested: I 100%ly agree. A 10 liter bucket should not be able to move 1 cubic meter of water in one go. We may need to limit the max length of the furrow/ditches. Filling up very long furrow network can potentially hurt the performaces every time you add/remove water (managing water level and moisture). I have been thinking about this as well. In my post, we had discussed the use of (adjustable) weir to give the player full control over, how much and where water streams should be redirected. We may be able to add you "over watering" mechanic to it. It would make farming a bit more tricky but it would also increase the importance of the weir block/object and add irrigation managment to the game. The currenty farming is more loke set (up) and forget. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Overall I like you suggested ideas!

@Thorfinn Sorry, my bad I forgot to change 49 to 42 blocks, in the intial post. I have tested docents of differnt layouts, water level (bump the base extensibility to 8, like you had suggested) and many more things and noticed that 7 block max range is not ideal (I can send you screenshots of all I tested but this may be overkill and not very interesting). I would like the max water range to be consistant with flowing water range of 6 blocks (base game). This means, we have 7 water levels time 6 block equals 42. The S(ource) block would be the 43th. Also in the base game this is the most optional farm/moisture setup Due to the way our weirs work, we need to aim for something like this: Really like your idea that we treated the S as infinite, as is fixes some problems I had while design possible ditch layouts I fully support this decision, the hydration system should stay as it is. We need to find a way to make the weir compatible with the existing in game mechanics and not the other way around. My aim was to have something, which can be seamless integrated and does not require you (or someone) having to re-writing of half the source code. Sure, having it like " - - + - - " instead of " - - - - -" should definitly be allowed. We would get this: I think that the layout in the image above, may no be 100% like you invisioned it, but I now get your overall idea with the notches etc. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Anyway, I would like to suggest a small addition to the current way weirs are working, if you are fine with that. As I mentioned I did some research on weir type and how they work. I would like to have two versions, 1st an height adjustable weir and 2nd a siphon weir. * reference: sliding weir - height adjustable| in game, chiseled design idea * siphon weir, how it works in RL ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ How the old ditch setup would work Setup requirements: Max. ditch length is now 6 blocks Only straight ditches (do not worry, I have not forgot about you "- - + - -" idea and the moisture level problem you mentioned, just bare with it for now.) make S infinite, all 4 ditches connceted to is are filled up to the same level as S water level at the weir is still calculated by floor(water level / number of weir). Example: floor(7/3) = 2 Resulting ditch layout: Problem: we have 9 blocks in the center, which will not get irrigated to 75%. Layout it tileable _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ How the new ditch setup would work (using both new weir types, water level at weirs is automtically calculated and not adjustable by player) Setup requirements: Max. ditch length 6 again only straight ditches again S infinite, all 4 ditches, same level as S orange lines = AW (adjustable weir) purple lines = SW (siphon weir) How do both weir work AWs reuse floor(water level / number of weir) SWs can be placed anywhere along the ditch but in the example below, I have placed them at the most optional position (at least I think) unlike AWs they do not extend the water flow at all. once water passes it, not matter which input water level the SWs had recieved water will fall back to the base game water mechanic -> flowing water, max. range 6, with water level slope. OR water gets reduce form x to the lowest (level 1) @Thorfinn which option would you prefere? Water coming out of the SWs cannot be extended. SW do not consum any water, as they are more like "overflow protections" and we just assume that enough water have recently spilled over and that the water in the ditch has not vaporized yet. Resulting ditch layout: light blue with roman numbers = default water after SW _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ How the new ditch setup would work (both weir, but now the water level running though the AWs can be adjusted be the player) @Thorfinn This is just an idea. I would be happy to hear your opinion if this would makes sense gameplay wise and more important, can this even be implemented? Setup requirements: same as shown above Player can now interact with the AWs and manually set the water level, which passes the weir. How do both weir work Water level 7 coming from S two AWs with height level 3 one SW for overflow protection (level 1 or any amount of overflow let) Gameplay mechanic (optional) unlike the old way to calculate the water level - floor(water level / number of weir) - Floor (7/3) = 2 player can decide how much water should run in each direction. No longer floor(water level / number of weir) - Floor (7/3) = 2 but you could split the water stream in: 4 and 3 or 3 and 3 + 1 overflowing in to the SW player needs to be mindful of the water level, if no SW (overflow proection is used) field could be flooded, destroying crop

For context This thread discusses new ideas (modification, improvemts, additions) of the current in game water mechanics. Please also see: related water mechnics ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Problem Depending on where players build their base, they may run into the problem that there are not water bodies close by, which can make setting up a farm difficult. Sure, there is a world setting to enable transport water via bucket, but for anyone, who prefer to keep it more realistic, there are currently no alternative options to transport water. Further more even, if you have access to a water source the limited flow range of 6 block can make it tricky to set up bigger fields (without using the bucket of cause). ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Investigation Like already state above, water only flow 6 block (7 if you count the water source block). Looking at the water source block in game you can see that the water level is a bit lover that the the regular full blocks. A block has a height of 16 bits (I used the chisel tool with the smallest size to count it). The S(ource) water block is filled up to 14/16 ~ 7/8, therefore we have 7 different water levels in the game (or 8 level if you count "no water" as well). Suggestion: Wiers & irrigation trenches Adding a new mechanic/block which can extend the max flow range, without breaking/reworking the existing water mechanics. *design: work in progress: wooden weirs, placeable by player * design concept for reinforcement weir with water level control (only decorativ), Darker wood = wet, Lighter wood = try Requirements / Limitations irrigation trenches can be 1 (deep) by 1 (width) by 1-49 (long) 49 block because 7 water level by 7 blocks seamless integration with existing water mechanic ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ How it works Is a createable block which can be place inside flowing water to dam up the water level to the same higth as the source block to extend the water flow range Starting at the source block (water level 7), each following block will stay at the same water level, until it reaches a weir. Once the water passes the weir the water level will decrease by 1, creating a pseudo water soucre behind the wier (this can be reapeat until level reached 1). Weir should preferably be place at the 7th block (counting the source block) to maximize range. But it should be allowed to place them anywhere between block 1-6th block * without weir, base game * with weir - concept dummy ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Open question and problems New system would be way to OP! (see post) * If you allow branching of directly after the weir @Thorfinn Yes, I agree that is way too much. And for anyone asking, yes of cause I create an image for this: cyan = water green = 75% moisture yellow = 50% moisture red = 25% moisture dark red = out of bound pink = none flowing water source block (in the center) orange lines = weirs As you can see, pure insanity and quite unrealistic, one block (cubic meter) can supply all this farm blocks. Therefore I would suggest that wiers should not be able to branch, so basically you will have a straigth line or snake line: Alternatively, if branching should be allow, reducing the water level by the amount of trenches connected. Instead of decreasing the water level by -1, in this exmple, level will be calculated using floor( 7 / 3 ) = 2 ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ That all I have so far!

@Oto Nokyo I would suggest a compromise. The Devs could maybe offer a new world/survival settings, which increases the likelihood of NPCs, ruines, settlements or traders spawning. (new preset idea: Adventure/settlement mode maybe). The default for this setting should be false, to stay lore consistant. Basically the new preset will be the opposite of the homo sapiens preset (disabled lore content). It may not even need much implementation effort only some adjustments in the spawn probability config (but this is more a question of the VS devs)

For context This thread includes a first concept draft on how traveling with sailboats could be improved upon by making it possible for the player to construct canals, sluices and boat lifts. Please also see: related water mechnics ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Problem Most larger water bodies in the current world gen are rarely interconnected (unless you adjust the world gen setting at the beginning) and like @7embre mentioned: ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Suggestion 1: Canals Requirement: Canal wall and floor will look like horizontally stretched U (see image below) Build area has to at least 2 (deep) by 6 (wide) blocks by 12 (long) * Has to be build in a straight line* Two sluice door need to be placed at the start and end of the canal* Common building material for canals in real life are compacted dirt, brick and concrete. Two of them we already have in the game, so no need for introducing new canal blocks, like I initial had planned. But I am pretty sure player would like to have more option, so I would say all solid blocks should be supported block (with some exceptions maybe)* *I will explain later why, I came up with these limitations, please see: Why all this limitations/requirements? (at the bottom of the comment) How it works: 1. Obviously you need to find a localtion 2. Prepare the building site (please keep size requirement in mind) 3. Place sluice door on both sides (make sure they are closed to keep the water out and that they aligned). I used the 2 by 2 door as a demonstration dummy, the sluice will need to be added as a new creatable item. Either made from wood or metal (Only the ones who are strong enough?) * closed sluice door * sluice door alignment 4. Excavate the entire canal - If case, you accidently open the sluice the water will flow inside using the base game water flow mechanic. It will not create an infinite water source. 5. Add canal wall and floor 6. Sluice need to be synced up (not sure how to do it, I am open for suggestions). This is importent to automatically fill up the canal. Once they are synced the sluice can be open (maybe by a level with gear box,/ pully system?), water will flow in an create pseudo water source block. If any of the sluice gets destroyed the pseudo water source will be removed (canal drys out). Adjacent water block will be able to flow into the canal but only using the base game water mechanic (flow limit of 6 blocks). 7. Have fun, prehaps add some light to make it easier to find you canals in the dark. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Suggestion 2: Sluice Connect two water bodies with different water level The overall setup stay the same, however the canal need to be way deeper Legend: blue = water brown = ground grey = canal wall and floor orange = sluice door * Inner canal chamber get filled. Use lever or some mechanic to in- or decreas water level * Lower sluice would not open unitl water is lowered ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Why all this limitations/requirements? Build area has to be 2 (deep) by 6 (wide) blocks: The sail boat needs at least 4 block (wide) and 1 block (deep) and 10 blocks (long) to function Has to be a straight line and Two sluice need to be placed at the start and end of the canal The game needs to have a way to determine if the canal/sluice it build correctly or not (without any holes) technical a canal should not need sluices, only of the initial setup, but I would like to keep it, as I wanted to prevent any abuse of the new water mechanics (no player made inifite water sources). If the sluice or any of the wall block are broken, the game should fall back to a "save state" -> canal dry out Syncing both sluice to another makes sure that both canal openings are aligned and connect to a none flowing water source block. System will than need to run a final check and fill the canal with water. In case of the sluice, it may fill the chamber to the lowest of the two water level as default Supported block: all solid block I would like to give the player the option color match the canals and sluice to already existing build or local terrain No stair or slaps or any other which you would not work in real life. A water tight building cannot be build out of loose gravel, sand etc. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Open question, problems to be solved Sluice should have some kind of drain (for lowering water level) and some water inlet block and control system Can/should the water in the canal/sluice freeze? Max. canal length @Crylum figure out the min length a sluice need to have to fit one sailboat. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ That all I have so far!

@Zane Mordien Thanks for confirming that! I have added your feedback my post.

@Ezekiel Rauch I think the dev, where wise to just stick with the "give player crop and seed" mechanic, as there are a lot of propagation types out there. .@Facethief Thanks for your input. I have compiled a list of the (wild) crop and other plant base option, sorted by real live propagation methode (may include errors, please review) @Ezekiel Rauch I also added the plant you mentioned in your initial post ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Farming crops Crop = Seed, can be replant directly: Grains:Flax, Spelt, Rice, Rye, Amaranth and Sunflower Onion Soybean Peanut Crop ≠ Seed, crop produces its own seed: Turnip Parsnip Carrot Soybean Pumpkin Bell Pepper Special cases: could technically be placed in the Crop = Seed Cassava (stem cutting) Bell Pepper (stem cutting) Pineapple (using suckers, slipsor the crown of the fruit.) Cabbage (Using the rooting the base of a harvested head) ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Wild crops > Roots (shoots to grill and I'm ready to kill) Special cases: seed dispersal and rhizome division Cattail Papyrus Bambus Tule Note: Cannot be propagated in game! ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Wild crops > Mushrooms Special cases: through spores ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Trees (fruits): Crop ≠ Seed, tree product seed Special cases: it seems that most fruit tree are propagated by grafting ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Berry Bushes Special cases: cuttings and self division ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Flowers Special cases: via seeds, cuttings, division, runners/stolons Note: Cannot be propagated in game! ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Other (mentioned by @Ezekiel Rauch) Edible in real life, not in game or not obtainable Fern Sprouts (via spores) Inner Bark (non-renewable, need to plant tree > @Ezekiel Rauch can you eat from all tree or only specific once? Only certain once, right?) Leaves (non-renewable, only certain once, right?)) Cactus (artially-edible in real life) Water Lily Root (division of rhizomes) Flowers (only Half-way) Herbs (could be used in cooking or medicin(Bandages) or other new heal mechanics/ status effect, if they get added) Seeds (not sure if it would make sense to eat you seed, if you want to build a farm. But as emergency food, sure.)

@LadyWYT In the first moment I though, you are "shitting" me. But 30s of google search resulted in: https://mods.vintagestory.at/naturescall and https://mods.vintagestory.at/scatatastrophe Sigh… the Internet is a weird place. @Facethief So, I take my argument back, as evidently you can technically follow natures call. Also, I had another look at my Minecraft example: Give you seed upon harvest: wheat, beetroot Seeds need to be extracted: melon, pumpkin Can use the crop to replant: mushrooms, berries, carrot, potatp, warts, cocoa beans, sugar cane, bamboo, cactus, seaweed Can be propagated using bone meal/ fertilizer: flowers *my list may not be complete as I did not check the latest versions @Facethief Anyway, it seems that I was only partially right (at least for the grains). If Minecraft has three separate farming mechanics is may not be as difficult to implement/maintain as I initially though. @Facethief Maybe we could add a list of all the crop in Vintage Story here and figure out in which of the three category is belong (or maybe there are more).