Structural Stability For Everything (Optional Obviously)

[EndlessOats]

Cave ins and dirt gravity are a really cool mechanic. I like to play with both of those on pretty much no matter what. I like the realism and restriction it brings, making building and caving a lot tougher, especially early game. This makes accomplishing hard goals and creating large structures a lot more rewarding than in any other builder game for me, but it's a bit lacking. The idea that I can just have my whole house float a few blocks off the ground to make me entirely immune to drifters makes the fun go out a little bit.

I think we should take stability mechanics one step further. Building blocks such as packed dirt, all stone masonry, bricks, and pretty much any other full or half block should have a stability contribution, similar to raw stone in relation to cave ins. For chiseled and furniture/ruin blocks you can either give them a stability contribution dependent on the total amount of voxels in them (which may be performance intensive) or go the other route and basically count anything with more than a slab's worth of material a full block and anything less a slab, and assign values based on material. What's better is this system already exists in the game, just needs expanded to other blocks and tweaked per material.

The real reason I want this change is a feeling of accomplishment after successfully engineering a large structure. Players will feel much more gratified knowing they created something difficult not just because of resource grind, but because they actually had to think about and design the structure with given materials. Pyramids and great Roman structures aren't just cool cause "wow lots of rocks", it's because of the absolutely monumental amount of logistics and impressive design which went into them. I'd like at least the option to feel this and I imagine may other do as well.

This game rocks honestly

[Thorfinn]

Loving it! Depending on the extent you intend, could be a huge challenge.

A very simplified version is offered in the game Going Medieval. But that model would have to be altered drastically to prevent all the caverns from instantly collapsing pits all over the place. Something like arches or coffered ceilings would have to be implemented to restore stability due to lateral forces. And now you are talking a lot of CPU because of how many caverns there are.

I suspect beams are intended to eventually be serious structural elements. A simple model with moments and reactions and loading would work fine for the typical medieval applications, but the current implementation of beams might require a more robust finite element analysis. Maybe with a toned down beam implementation?

The big problem comes from things like flying buttresses. Those effects are not simply weight-based.

A huge downside is that the fantastic floating sky islands are no more. Lots of interesting terrain collapses.

Maybe a compromise -- player constructions (including excavations) have to comply with FEA, but not "natural" formations? 

[EDIT]

All that said, great mod material, since as you imply, not everyone is going to like that. I'd prefer if the mods spent time on things more attuned to their vision for the game, and, secondarily, to what most players want, and leave the more niche to the mod community.

Edited September 26 by Thorfinn

[Brady_The]

This is not right on topic (which is a great suggestion in itself), but because dirt gravity was mentioned it's not entirely off-topic either.

I'd really like to see the existing stability mechanic enhanced. I find it very bothersome that the smallest rabbit or the tiniest flower picking can result in huge land slides. Natures' support beams are roots. My suggestion would be the following:

Sand - lowest base stability

Gravel - higher base stability

Dirt - highest base stability

Crops (be it planted or spawned) don't add stability.

Grass (including cattails, tule and the like) has the lowest stability rating and will only prevent small shifting (eg one block height difference). One block (self) radius. Removing grass completely will destroy roots.

Bushes (including berry (maybe a good time to replace "leaf bushes" with its own block?)) offer a greater stability, due to stronger roots. Maximum of 9 block radius, maximum of 2 blocks depth - shape and amount of "rooted blocks" within the parameters randomized?

Trees offer the greatest stability. Radius and depth depending on root type (shallow-rooted vs deep-rooted), but should be enormous in comparison. Same randomisation as bushes?

(Support beams would work on dirt as well?)

This would cut down on annoying block shifting which shouldn't really happen in the first place, the resulting floating trees, etc. This also would allow a player to stabilize their own surroundings, making the building and (in some capacity) landscaping much more enjoyable.

Edited September 26 by Brady_The

[EndlessOats]

18 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

Loving it! Depending on the extent you intend, could be a huge challenge.

A very simplified version is offered in the game Going Medieval. But that model would have to be altered drastically to prevent all the caverns from instantly collapsing pits all over the place. Something like arches or coffered ceilings would have to be implemented to restore stability due to lateral forces. And now you are talking a lot of CPU because of how many caverns there are.

I suspect beams are intended to eventually be serious structural elements. A simple model with moments and reactions and loading would work fine for the typical medieval applications, but the current implementation of beams might require a more robust finite element analysis. Maybe with a toned down beam implementation?

The big problem comes from things like flying buttresses. Those effects are not simply weight-based.

A huge downside is that the fantastic floating sky islands are no more. Lots of interesting terrain collapses.

Maybe a compromise -- player constructions (including excavations) have to comply with FEA, but not "natural" formations? 

[EDIT]

All that said, great mod material, since as you imply, not everyone is going to like that. I'd prefer if the mods spent time on things more attuned to their vision for the game, and, secondarily, to what most players want, and leave the more niche to the mod community.

Actually, I don't think caverns need redone at all. I think the current cave in stability system works just fine and shouldn't be changed at all. I'm simply saying the same system we already have should be expanded to include blocks which don't currently have it, and those blocks are pretty much all unnatural blocks. I'm not advocating to tweak cave ins or sideways stability, although

 

17 hours ago, Brady_The said:

This is not right on topic (which is a great suggestion in itself), but because dirt gravity was mentioned it's not entirely off-topic either.

I'd really like to see the existing stability mechanic enhanced. I find it very bothersome that the smallest rabbit or the tiniest flower picking can result in huge land slides. Natures' support beams are roots. My suggestion would be the following:

Sand - lowest base stability

Gravel - higher base stability

Dirt - highest base stability

Crops (be it planted or spawned) don't add stability.

Grass (including cattails, tule and the like) has the lowest stability rating and will only prevent small shifting (eg one block height difference). One block (self) radius. Removing grass completely will destroy roots.

Bushes (including berry (maybe a good time to replace "leaf bushes" with its own block?)) offer a greater stability, due to stronger roots. Maximum of 9 block radius, maximum of 2 blocks depth - shape and amount of "rooted blocks" within the parameters randomized?

Trees offer the greatest stability. Radius and depth depending on root type (shallow-rooted vs deep-rooted), but should be enormous in comparison. Same randomisation as bushes?

(Support beams would work on dirt as well?)

This would cut down on annoying block shifting which shouldn't really happen in the first place, the resulting floating trees, etc. This also would allow a player to stabilize their own surroundings, making the building and (in some capacity) landscaping much more enjoyable.

is pretty cool. Maybe not entirely the same, as I do actually like the shiftiness of current terrain (you wouldn't think so, but it's actually really accurate to how uninhabited places are. Ground near cities and population centers or in flatlands is much more stable, and that's what most people are used to, but trust me, I know from experience that one wrong step in mountainous terrain can absolutely cause some serious landslides) but the thing with trees is cool. Rooted dirt as a separate thing is what Dynamic Trees (Minecraft mod) uses to take care of floating trees. I like that system and dislike floating trees. Cool idea.