Why Monster spawns drive me nuts, and how to fix the problem

[Josiah Gibbonson]

It might just be me, but I really dislike the way monsters in this game are implemented outside of the story chapters.

They feel unnatural. Don't get me wrong, I like their designs a lot, but the way they're implemented feels lackluster. 

I mean, the storms are fine...ish. It's been mentioned before, but actual weather changes and annomalies that occur to warn you when a temporal storm is approaching instead of a chat message would be a godsend.

 

But the portals and the whole "spawning in the dark" thing is awful. Multiple times portals have spawned near or inside my house and began spawning those creatures. And since my basement wasn't lit at the time, they spawned there too. How?! There aren't any windows, and something can't just come from nothing. Are they part dust-bunny abomination??

 

So here's the idea- instead of spawning in darkness, they're locked to structural spawning (like ruins, abandoned fortresses, ect.), the temporal rifts, the temporal storms, and specific "biomes".

 

For example, "withered" spaces on the map could spawn. Places with very low temporal stability would have this effect. The grass would be brown and rotten, bits of sharp metal would litter the ground. Trees would have no leaves, water would be black and polluted. You could find skeletal remains all over the place, as drifters spawn here. That way instead of finding a nice place to call home and then "oh no, low temporal stability spot!" It'd be more visual. 

 

As for portals, I'd make it so they couldn't spawn near player placed blocks a certain distance to prevent accidental in-house spawning. But, during temporal storms, rifts could open up ON player placed blocks (for example, in your house) to prevent house camping. 

 

Portals could either be floating, or attached to surfaces like rifts to other dimensions- and if any flying monsters get added, large portals and rifts in the sky. They'd all be different shapes and sizes, and monsters would actually climb through them to spawn rather than poofing out of thin air. In addition, you might be able to enter the rust dimension or something if you walked or fell into one.

 

Portals could appear much more frequently underground so there's still threat there- although I'd personally add some giant insects like centipedes or roaches to take care of that issue. 

 

As for nighttime, just make wolves spawn more frequently during it, on the hunt. 

 

If poisonous snakes were added, or other dangerous critters, night would have a little more natural of danger rather than "look at all these drifters, grunting at my door despite not being able to get inside. I wish they were wolves so I could just hear howling instead of bodily noises attracted to me like zombies to fishsticks." 

 

(And don't get me started about running about in darkness and getting sniped by several bowtorns >-> . . .would much rather accidently step on a sleeping black bear)

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2025 by Josiah Gibbonson

[Thorfinn]

Wouldn't spawning mechanics that you could exploit to make yourself more or less immune to the eldritch reduce the horror? Like you said, how are they spawning in my basement!?!?!?! The fact you can't secure your homestead until you construct the rift ward is a feature, not a bug.

[Josiah Gibbonson]

12 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

Wouldn't spawning mechanics that you could exploit to make yourself more or less immune to the eldritch reduce the horror? Like you said, how are they spawning in my basement!?!?!?! The fact you can't secure your homestead until you construct the rift ward is a feature, not a bug.

If we're being honest there's not a lot of horror in them spawning in my house, just annoyance and irritation >-> 

 

I have been jumpscared once though lol

[Tom Cantine]

11 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

Wouldn't spawning mechanics that you could exploit to make yourself more or less immune to the eldritch reduce the horror? Like you said, how are they spawning in my basement!?!?!?! The fact you can't secure your homestead until you construct the rift ward is a feature, not a bug.

Yeah, kinda seems to me to be a deliberate aspect of the world, or at least, the lore has been contrived to fully integrate these things. They're TEMPORAL storms, a warping of spacetime that gives access to points that normally shouldn't be adjacent, and things that shouldn't be here and now. 

[Josiah Gibbonson]

36 minutes ago, Tom Cantine said:

, kinda seems to me to be a deliberate aspect of the world, or at least, the lore has been contrived to fully integrate these things. They're TEMPORAL storms, a warping of spacetime that gives access to points that normally shouldn't be adjacent, and things that shouldn't be here and now

Wish they would communicate that better though. Like- why is it that warping spacetime only occurs in low light levels? Why don't they glitch into existance in the daytime too?

I get they're unnatural, but it's the opposite of immersive when they just have the same mechanics as minecraft monsters- just with portals sometimes allowing them to spawn during the day (which I wish was better animated) 

[Thorfinn]

 

16 minutes ago, Josiah Gibbonson said:

Like- why is it that warping spacetime only occurs in low light levels? Why don't they glitch into existance in the daytime too?

Because things that go bump in the night go bump in the... night?

[Tom Cantine]

12 minutes ago, Josiah Gibbonson said:

Wish they would communicate that better though. Like- why is it that warping spacetime only occurs in low light levels? Why don't they glitch into existance in the daytime too?

I get they're unnatural, but it's the opposite of immersive when they just have the same mechanics as minecraft monsters- just with portals sometimes allowing them to spawn during the day (which I wish was better animated) 

But it doesn't only occur in low light levels. It also happens during temporal storms that strike in broad daylight. And I haven't tried it yet, but presumably hanging around too close to a rift can also bring on the monstrosities. 

And yes,  you're right that it is a very similar mechanic to mob spawning in MC, but also with a great many other games where creatures just sort of pop into existence rather than having a normal life cycle and migration happening off-screen. This is kind of a necessity at present, owing to the limits of computer memory and processing time, but most games don't even bother to try to integrate it into the world; they just expect the player to look the other way and assume that deer just wandered in from elsewhere.

I kind of like the idea of engineering the lore to EXPLAIN why these frankly bizarre artifacts of the medium happen. 

[Josiah Gibbonson]

34 minutes ago, Tom Cantine said:

it doesn't only occur in low light levels. It also happens during temporal storms that strike in broad daylight. And I haven't tried it yet, but presumably hanging around too close to a rift can also bring on the monstrosities. 

I...know this. They spawn in low light levels, in story chapter locations, rifts, and during temporal storms. (And storms can happen any time of day) I love the storms! I like that monsters can spawn in your house during them because they sometimes look like phantoms. I just think it'd be better if they didn't just poof into existance at night. At least have temporary rifts appear on the ground and walls and show them coming from them- or maybe even show them phasing into reality.  But when I go into my unlit basement, why the HECK are they spawning there without a rift? Very immersion breaking.

[Josiah Gibbonson]

42 minutes ago, Tom Cantine said:

This is kind of a necessity at present, owing to the limits of computer memory and processing time

I have a hard time believing mild spawn animations would effect the game in that way. I've seen minecraft run smooth as butter with mods like that- heck, mods that demand so much more than that.

[Josiah Gibbonson]

44 minutes ago, Tom Cantine said:

kind of like the idea of engineering the lore to EXPLAIN why these frankly bizarre artifacts of the medium happen.

I fail to see why they couldn't polish it up to be more immersive like the rest of the game...?

[Thorfinn]

54 minutes ago, Tom Cantine said:

This is kind of a necessity at present, owing to the limits of computer memory and processing time, but most games don't even bother to try to integrate it into the world; they just expect the player to look the other way and assume that deer just wandered in from elsewhere.

Not even sure that's the reason. But if you could just go out and slap down a 5x5 fence around the rift and pick the buggers off as they emerge through the rift, that's a whole 'nother level of cheese.

I get that you want something that seems more realistic, @Josiah Gibbonson. I agree to some extent. I just think that making spawning more controllable is going the wrong direction if one wants to retain any of the horror. As jaded as I am over them now, I remember huddling in the dark after I ran out of firewood, in a tiny mud hut that first night, absolutely convinced that they were going to break through the walls at any moment. While slowly starving to death. Changing things to take that experience away from new players is nothing I support.

[Josiah Gibbonson]

1 hour ago, Thorfinn said:

I remember huddling in the dark after I ran out of firewood, in a tiny mud hut that first night, absolutely convinced that they were going to break through the walls at any moment. While slowly starving to death. Changing things to take that experience away from new players is nothing I support.

The Idea we want is to keep the terror going even for veterans. Unfortunately the terror is rather short lived. The world of vintage story just seems so grounded in realism that the unrealistic parts of it feel like they need some polish to fit. 

 

Unfortunately it's a difficult balance, because making enemies hard to cheese while keeping them immersive is a difficult balancing act. Although I suppose it comes down to them desperately needing better AI. If they could climb blocks or fences and phase out of walls or ceilings that are "trapping" them, the horror aspect would be longer lived. 

 

#Letdriftersopendoorstheyhavearms 

[Thorfinn]

1 hour ago, Josiah Gibbonson said:

#Letdriftersopendoorstheyhavearms 

One of my favorite features of Dana Tweaks.

I don't know about drastic changes to AI -- making them more challenging that way will overwhelm most new players, and a not insignificant fraction of the player base in general. That's one reason that I think the new guys are a huge improvement -- combined arms, each of which is not too much on its own, but in concert can be quite dangerous.

[EDIT]

How about setting the rifts to invisible? Popping in from some other dimension is only a problem if its in some way tied to the physical presence of a rift, right? So not being able to see it...?

Edited March 28, 2025 by Thorfinn

[Maelstrom]

20 hours ago, Josiah Gibbonson said:

 But when I go into my unlit basement, why the HECK are they spawning there without a rift? Very immersion breaking.

One of two things is going on here.  Either there is a rift close by spawning said critters, or the game considers your basement a cave. 

My home in 1.19 butted up against a 30 block cliff face.  I dug my cellar into the cliff wall.   Imagine my surprise when I'm working in my home during the day and all the doors are closed, I'm assaulted by my friendly neighborhood spiderma... drifter.  Yep, my cellar was indeed a "cave" and the drifter came wandering through the open door to give me a high five to the buttocks.  Torches were placed poste haste until I could get some lanterns in there.

edit - @Thorfinn I, too, remember the fear of wondering if those drifters would bash down my door or tunnel through the wall of my dirt hut.

Edited March 28, 2025 by Maelstrom

[Josiah Gibbonson]

5 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

or the game considers your basement a cave. 

I'm still pretty certain they're set to spawn in low light levels

[Maelstrom]

In caves, yes.  On the surface, no.  I've gone spelunking on calm rift nights and still get mob spawnage whereas nothing is popping up on the surface.  This is why I mentioned the cave aspect of your basement (with personal example).  If the game considers a space a cave, then mobs may spawn in low light conditions.

[Josiah Gibbonson]

5 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

In caves, yes.  On the surface, no.  I've gone spelunking on calm rift nights and still get mob spawnage whereas nothing is popping up on the surface.  This is why I mentioned the cave aspect of your basement (with personal example).  If the game considers a space a cave, then mobs may spawn in low light conditions.

How odd. I've seen them spawn all around my place at night. Maybe it was just rifts

[Maelstrom]

Correct.  Rifts are hard to see at night, unless their setting isn't invisible.'

On a related note, on two separate occassions I have seen drifters spawn from rifts in broad daylight.  And I mean I SAW them spawn.  One moment nothing, next; POOF there it is!  
On a somewhat related note, in 1.16 (or was it 1.17?) I watched a rift collapse in a cloud of sparks.  THAT was a cool effect.  Unfortunately, Tyron changed that.  *sadge*

[Thorfinn]

Remember, they can spawn within 25 tiles (IIRC) of a rift. A 50 tile diameter is pretty honkin' big. Heck, even 25 is greater than wolf or bear detection range.

Edited March 28, 2025 by Thorfinn