how would you balance planes?

[Helst_navngivet]

We just got the glider on our server. Its pretty fun, as we have a very tall mountain, and a tower to build-height on said mountain. You can build up quite a hefty amount of speed, however, our lust for more speed is yet to be filled. 

I then had the genius idea of: "What if we had a plane/glider mod that went really fast?"

and we both agreed that it would be pretty fun.

However, there should be a reason as to why you shouldnt just use this super-glider forever and always. My idea would be all of the following;

1) it would be very expensive in the long run. It would require frequent repairs after use, like replacing flax in the wings, structural repairs, etc.

2) it would be too fast. This one i was kind of "meh" on, as it could work, however i dont know how fun it would be. The idea was to make a sort of rocket engine, powered by a huge load of blasting powder, that would then accelerate you extremely quickly. You would not be able to turn it off again, only moderating how much coolant and/or oxidiser it would get(see 3) for more info), subsequently making the plane slightly slower/faster. 

3) it would be very hard to fly. things like wings ripping off under high G turns and engine overheating would be something you would have to manage when piloting. The pilot would also have to duck and look through a small glass window in the fuselage after high speed because their eyes are dried out by the wind, which would result in blurry vision. This could probably be negated somewhat by the snow goggle thingys.

4) recovery would be a slog. This would mean it would be fun for... well.. fun, however it wouldnt be particularly nice to use over long distances, as you would have to haul it all the way home.

any other suggestions for balancing ideas?

(sorry for the bad english btw, it is not my first language)

Edited yesterday at 09:49 PM by Helst_navngivet

[Chrondeath]

Require a runway to take off and land.  Maybe an intentionally constructed one or maybe let long stretches of desert work; running into a bush at high speeds should kill you.  Point is to require infrastructure at the departure and destination sites, making it more like a scenic and controllable translocator and less like a replacement for all other forms of transport. 

Additional idea: weight limits.  Would require a whole weight system that doesn't currently exist, but makes sense from a "why do forms of travel other than air travel exist?" perspective.

[cjameshuff]

This is Vintage Story. It would obviously have a very high chance of killing you.

[LadyWYT]

24 minutes ago, Helst_navngivet said:

1) it would be very expensive in the long run. It would require frequent repairs after use, like replacing flax in the wings, structural repairs, etc.

This is a very good way to balance such a concept, since the expense of obtaining such a machine means that it's going to be a late game item. Likewise, the maintenance cost means that it's not just a big price the player pays once and then never has to worry about again--if the player wants the power, they have to put in the effort.

 

26 minutes ago, Helst_navngivet said:

2) it would be too fast. This one i was kind of "meh" on, as it could work, however i dont know how fun it would be. The idea was to make a sort of rocket engine, powered by a huge load of blasting powder, that would then accelerate you extremely quickly. You would not be able to turn it off again, only moderating how much coolant and/or oxidiser it would get(see 3) for more info), subsequently making the plane slightly slower/faster. 

I think you're right, in that this one likely won't be very fun to play with since it renders the contraption pretty much unusable. Most likely the only way this option works is if the machine in question is relatively cheap and requires no maintenance, meaning that the player can easily break it during a flying attempt, but can also reasonably expect to replace it when that happens.

 

29 minutes ago, Helst_navngivet said:

3) it would be very hard to fly. things like wings ripping off under high G turns and engine overheating would be something you would have to manage when piloting. The pilot would also have to duck and look through a small glass window in the fuselage after high speed because their eyes are dried out by the wind, which would result in blurry vision. This could probably be negated somewhat by the snow goggle thingys.

While this is definitely a realistic way to handle it...it's also going to be very difficult to code. Some players enjoy difficulty like this, however, it's worth noting that as a general rule, more players seem to gravitate towards easier mechanics rather than harder ones. Ultimately, I think it runs into the same issue as #2, in that it's probably going to be more frustrating than fun to play with.

 

32 minutes ago, Helst_navngivet said:

4) recovery would be a slog. This would mean it would be fun for... well.. fun, however it wouldnt be particularly nice to use over long distances, as you would have to haul it all the way home.

Maybe for a glider, but an airplane it shouldn't be a slog...assuming that the player had set up the proper infrastructure to support that kind of travel, or was otherwise smart about where they chose to land.

 

34 minutes ago, Helst_navngivet said:

any other suggestions for balancing ideas?

I think overall, a simplified flight system is ideal in order to let the player easily make use of the vehicle once they have it. The main key to balancing it, I think, is making the flying machine be quite expensive to obtain, with a reasonable smaller maintenance cost after creation in order to keep it functioning properly. That should give players a good goal to work towards, without overshadowing other means of transport or otherwise rendering them entirely useless. Players still need elk, because that's more efficient for traveling shorter distances or rough terrain, or hauling lots of cargo. Sailboats remain useful because they're cheaper, don't require maintenance, and can easily haul lots of cargo. A plane is excellent for covering long distances and bypassing terrain, but the expense means you'll want to be very careful with it and consider whether or not the time you save using the plane is going to be worth the time you have to spend performing maintenance.

If you want to have a little more nuance regarding flight conditions, I think it's probably better to do some sort of rough weight calculation, as well as account for whether the plane is equipped with high wings, low wings, tricycle gear, taildragger, or floats. A plane that is heavily loaded with fuel and cargo is going to need more space for takeoff and landing; likewise, facing into the wind can shorten the distance required while facing away from the wind can lengthen the distance. A plane with high wings means the player won't be able to see what's above them, but a plane with low wings means the player won't be able to easily see what's underneath them. A tricycle gear is much easier to steer on the ground, since you can see where you're going. A conventional gear(taildragger configuration) makes it harder to see where you're going, but can help protect the propeller from groundstrike and tends to be better suited for rougher landing environments(like unpaved landing strips). Floats mean the plane can land on water(and be reusable after!), but not on land.

Maintenance isn't something that should be overlooked either. Players might get away with ignoring it for a while, but failing to perform regular maintenance(which includes pre-flight checks--those exist for a reason!) can lead to the plane having reduced performance or perhaps even suffering an engine failure...in which case the player is going to need to pick an emergency landing site and do their best...ideally they can reuse the plane afterwards, but that may or may not be possible.

8 minutes ago, Chrondeath said:

running into a bush at high speeds should kill you.

Not necessarily. The pilot and passengers might be fine, but the plane might not be very usable without some time in the shop. 

[Chrondeath]

9 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

Not necessarily. The pilot and passengers might be fine, but the plane might not be very usable without some time in the shop. 

The idea that, with or without death, a plane crash turns into some kind of wreckage blocks that have to be salvaged, maybe with specialized equipment, to get back the plane or the expensive resources that went into its construction... maybe smoke rises from the wreckage to make it easier to pinpoint... the idea of emergent salvage expeditions amuses me

[Helst_navngivet]

21 hours ago, Chrondeath said:

the idea of emergent salvage expeditions amuses me

That is actually an amazing idea, If i ever come around to making it this is 100% getting implemented.

It would be the most vintage story thing ever, walking through a forest at midnight in pitch black darkness, searching for your friend who crashed thousands of blocks away in the plane with all the rusty gears, losing one guy to a bear and freezing half to death, then finally reaching the plane, then doing the whole thing all over again just to get back to the base.

also larping as a plane crash investigator would be pretty cool.

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Helst_navngivet