Why logically I believe a Plague Doctor class would make more sense than Merchant, Noble, or Forlorn Knight classes as next new class added.

[MKMoose]

21 hours ago, ifoz said:

I also think a doctor class could be fitting, but I do also wonder if some medical gameplay could be integrated into the Tailor.
I say this because the tailor blouse has faint pink staining, consistent with other bloodstains in the game (barber surgeon apron, Nadiyan barber gloves), along with the description of "artisans provided what assistance they could and plied their craft when able". Together to me this kind of implies the Tailor might have also been stitching up the wounded in emergency situations.

I think a herbalist class could also potentially be integrated into Malefactor, given they already have the "forager" trait.

Forlorn Hope knight I've always been unsure about, given that the Blackguard already covers the melee/fighter playstyle. I think the only way they could offer unique gameplay would be if they had more to do with alchemy or the sciences.
The Forlorn Hope were also scholars, so they might usurp the role of a Noble class, unless the Noble was explicitly something of a challenge class.

It seems to me that the best way to make these three concepts stand out while avoiding excessive overlap would be to have each of them focus on a fundamentally different worldview in a sense and only secondarily derive gameplay functions from there, as that would serve as a sufficient differentiation even if all three were to have some relation with alchemy and science. Any kind of perfect lore accuracy isn't really necessary, in the same vein that it makes sense in gameplay even though there's no real lore reason to, for example, make every single tailor invariably weak and kind, or every single Blackguard invariably clumsy and heavyhanded.

• Doctor - Rot and shady experiments. Managing the dying and the dead would have been quite high on their list of responsibilities, and rather than focus on something akin to first aid (which could be the domain of the tailor) they seem like they would be similar to real plague doctors. "Plague doctors rarely cured patients, instead serving to record death tolls and the number of infected people for demographic purposes." False cures and experimental treatments wouldn't have been out of place, which in gameplay could translate to double-edged healing or buffing items and dangerous or questionable brewing and alchemical ingredients. Where malefactors forage to survive and tend to stick to what's safe and reliable, where tailors stitch up regular wounds and care for the patients, doctors experiment, record, and move on indifferently to the next victim of the Rot.
• Forlorn Hope - religion and faith. Prayers, rituals and magical symbols would have been common, be they effective in some capacity or just a superstition. Blackguards are practical, efficient and driven by necessity, whereas the Order is proud, self-righteous or downright fanatical. In gameplay, this would easily translate to pseudo-magical trinkets or symbols, and classical alchemy in the pursuit of prima materia - perhaps allowing to interact with temporal stability and storms, protecting a seraph from harm or incapacitating a drifter. Implementing something like this wouldn't be unreasonable even if all of their pre-Machine symbols and baubles were utterly ineffective in practice.
• Noble - science and history. Educated and travelled, they know the world, are familiar with relatively recent events, and quite notably, they are well literate - which can't be said for most people in the Middle Ages. Contrary to the Order of the Forlorn Hope, nobility wouldn't have placed as much weight on religion, and instead they could focus more on grounded, rational science. They can make use of ruins, but while malefactors are more likely to loot them, nobles are better equipped to find information. They could read notes and books to discover recipes, locations of other ruins or of some biomes and resources, and they could potentially discover exclusive lore.

As a side note, these classes could very neatly flesh out the roster of city dwellers - nobility, more or less clergy, plus a merchant we've mentioned before. The clockmaker is probably an artisan, the tailor is something like an apprentice or journeyman, and we could maybe use some kind of a laborer and a servant to have a practically complete set of social classes.

 

On 7/21/2026 at 2:04 PM, ifoz said:

I'm unsure about this one, as I think it leans a bit too far into restricting gameplay considering just how important flax is in this game. Windmills, armour, repairing clothes, sailboats.
The Malefactor also seems like one of the classes with the most theoretical survival skills - realistically the tailor might be better at weaving fancy things, but the Malefactor's whole shtick is supposed to be that they're an adapt improvisor, capable of working with what they've got. 
If anything, the class that makes the most sense to get crafting debuffs would be the Blackguard, since they are described as "not having the talent for delicate work".

I think it'd be nice if this was the aspect leaned into further for the Malefactor - alternate recipes for certain items, and maybe even a few outright new ones. I like your ideas of them being able to use nettle for certain flax recipes, as well as moss for early healing. I had an idea a while back that the Malefactor should be able to make upgraded (bronze-tier) versions of the current vanilla metal scrap weapons, that are copper tier, which would also tie into their ruin-hunting traits. You mentioned adding more scrap tools for them to use, and I think that'd bring some unique options to the table.

On 7/21/2026 at 7:51 PM, LadyWYT said:

I don't think this is a good idea for any class, not just Malefactor. The game itself is balanced primarily around singleplayer, and thus every class needs to be able to both complete the main story and enjoy all the main content that the game has to offer, without needing to resort to turning off class-exclusive recipes or joining a multiplayer server.

Less "prevent them from using flax at all", and more "make them use other (foraged or looted) resources in place of flax to make the same products". Give malefactors an alternative way of obtaining some things within a gameplay loop more centered on exploring, foraging and looting. Change the means, but don't significantly change the end result - so there's almost none of the problems that class-exclusive recipes cause, real or imagined.

My general though process is that it is largely well-known and proven in game design that some of the best methods to achieve meaningful distinctions between classes (or between characters, weapons, skill trees and so on) rely on significantly changing the gameplay style between them to match different player preferences and means of player expression. This is done fairly well on the side of lore and theming for the existing classes, but actual gameplay differences are currently quite minimal. Being slightly better at some things and slightly worse at others changes borderline nothing about a player's playstyle if there's still just one way to do each thing, which different classes just make a bit more or less time-consuming. It also makes it easy to compare classes directly and determine which of them is strictly better, which can produce a clear meta.

 

One difficult part of it is that a focus on realistic survival mechanics can make it tricky to introduce meaningful changes to core gameplay, since it's not straightforward to properly justify other characters being unable to use relatively basic mechanics - this is in part already visible in class-exclusive recipes. Many differences are virtually impossible to realize, and it is easier to rely on efficiency differences and not completely new mechanics to direct the player to alternatives, but this doesn't prevent people from sticking to the generic mechanics. And that is why I was wondering if it would work to make it entirely impossible for the malefactor to use flax for some things - unless you force people to search for the alternative, they might just keep farming flax and complain that it's less efficient.

Another difficult part is that almost everything in the game is currently only made in one specific way (potentially with minor variations like borax instead of lime in leatherworking), so there are almost no existing alternatives to make use of to differentiate classes. But, there's a plethora of alternatives that could fit right in:

• Wood carving, bark containers, gourds, glassmaking and metalworking <=> various pottery items.
• Bone carving and cold working native metals <=> early metalworking.
• Wool and wild bast fibers <=> linen.
• Drifter skin, felt, waxed textiles and bark <=> leather and paper in certain contexts.
• Wickerwork <=> wood in certain applications.
• Scavenging ruins <=> prospecting and mining for metal - that's the part of the discussion about finding metal scraps in ruins.
• Foraging could provide alternative means to obtain a whole host of things.
• Brain tanning could offer a different method of obtaining leather.
• Rawhide (actual rawhide, not fresh skin named "raw hide") could be an alternative to leather for several purposes.

And if we had some of these, then it wouldn't be difficult to introduce big distinctions between classes. Some might do well with relatively "primitive" mechanics, others would depend on quick technological progress. Some might favor exploration and scavenging, others would prefer a stationary lifestyle. Some might deal efficiently with heavy labor, others would excel at finer crafts. Do keep in mind that the primary goal here is to provide the means for diverse player expression, not to apply arbitrary restrictions or whatnot. Additionally:

• A tilt hammer could be added to accomodate weak characters unable to forge efficiently, placing more emphasis on quick tech progression when playing those classes.
• Similarly, a lathe, a sawmill, a pottery wheel, a loom and other machines could bring some mechanics to classes which aren't adept at them normally.
• Some classes might get significantly increased (hunter) or reduced (tailor) loot from animals, and at the same time likely opposite effects on some agricultural processes.
• Some classes could favor certain food types and potentially know some special food recipes, be it in a systemic way or more explicitly - most notably, any class leaning towards a hunter-gatherer should prefer meat and possibly fruit as well as may be able to eat bone marrow and know ways to prepare tree fruits and foraged plants, whereas classes that focus on a more stationary lifestyle should probably prefer grain and dairy and may get a greater satiety bonus from proper cooked meals.

And the final big problem is the question of "why not just allow the player to choose themselves what they do without making some things better or worse based on the class?" But at that point, I don't see why the existing classes shouldn't face the same question and perhaps be limited to just cosmetic clothing and lore background. The whole point is to make the basic gameplay loop (especially the early game) play out differently and fulfill a different fantasy for each class.

 

On 7/21/2026 at 8:15 PM, LadyWYT said:

One overlooked possibility is disease/injury resistance. 

Malefactors, for example, might be incredibly resistant to some of the more serious illnesses, like malaria or cholera, since they're used to being in some rather disgusting scenarios thanks to their past. That makes them a more valuable choice even into the late game, since some illness could be quite difficult to cure and/or pose a significant penalty if the player has it. Blackguards could be more resistant to certain physical injuries(like broken bones) thanks to having a stronger constitution than other classes, but being stronger means they need more food...which means that any injury/illness that boosts hunger rate will hit them harder than it will other classes. Classes like Clockmaker and Tailor might be more susceptible to certain illnesses or injuries, since they don't have have rugged physiques or sturdy immune systems.

This idea also lends more value to a devoted Doctor class, since treatments administered by Doctors could be more effective at dealing with illness and injuries. This makes Doctor a strong support class for multiplayer, as well as a solid choice for singleplayer in the event the player isn't too keen on being held back by disease and injuries.

I have yet to see a single survival game with a medical system developed enough to be a meaningful factor in class selection, especially since (1) most basic health mechanics are inherently shared by all classes, and (2) a lot can be easily achieved with maximum health, regeneration rate and one or two special damage types like poison (all of which are pretty much already implemented). Also, if your disease is dangerous enough that resistance to it is a valuable class advantage, then that sounds to me like a pretty good reason to either just never implement that disease in the first place, or to make it part of the core focus of the game (in which case it would arguably be better implemented as Rot or some temporal shenanigans, not some malaria or cholera).

[Cedric the Silent]

On 7/22/2026 at 3:33 PM, MKMoose said:

we could maybe use some kind of a laborer and a servant to have a practically complete set of social classes.

Wasn't the commoner class counted as the laborer class? They were the describe as the ones that did a lot of mining and other random labor jobs others weren't willing to do.

On 7/22/2026 at 3:33 PM, MKMoose said:

• Doctor - Rot and shady experiments. Managing the dying and the dead would have been quite high on their list of responsibilities, and rather than focus on something akin to first aid (which could be the domain of the tailor) they seem like they would be similar to real plague doctors. "Plague doctors rarely cured patients, instead serving to record death tolls and the number of infected people for demographic purposes." False cures and experimental treatments wouldn't have been out of place, which in gameplay could translate to double-edged healing or buffing items and dangerous or questionable brewing and alchemical ingredients. Where malefactors forage to survive and tend to stick to what's safe and reliable, where tailors stitch up regular wounds and care for the patients, doctors experiment, record, and move on indifferently to the next victim of the Rot.

This just made me think about what if they added things like leeches that can be found down south in jungles and swamps that a doctor class can use for medical treatment, I feel like that would lead to some funny interactions in multiplayer servers with some players being grossed out by a bunch of leches stick to their player model as their resident doctor player reassure them its a perfectly natural medical treatment and that they are just being a baby about it. I would be all for introducing strange and questionable but technically somewhat realistically effect medical treatments be add to the game if they ever do add a doctor class because it would be fun and interesting.

[MKMoose]

16 hours ago, Cedric the Silent said:

Wasn't the commoner class counted as the laborer class? They were the describe as the ones that did a lot of mining and other random labor jobs others weren't willing to do.

Kind of, though I was thinking that the commoner is more akin to a farmer (which would constitute potentially upwards of 90% of medieval society), whereas a "laborer" is a person who does manual labor, mostly seen in larger cities and often associated with construction work. They would move goods, load and unload ships or carts, work at construction sites and do the the physical work in workshops, kilns, furnaces, landscaping, this sort of jobs. Granted, though, it could potentially be argued that it falls under the same broad bucket as the commoner.

 

16 hours ago, Cedric the Silent said:

This just made me think about what if they added things like leeches that can be found down south in jungles and swamps that a doctor class can use for medical treatment, I feel like that would lead to some funny interactions in multiplayer servers with some players being grossed out by a bunch of leches stick to their player model as their resident doctor player reassure them its a perfectly natural medical treatment and that they are just being a baby about it. I would be all for introducing strange and questionable but technically somewhat realistically effect medical treatments be add to the game if they ever do add a doctor class because it would be fun and interesting.

Seems like a very good way to differentiate the doctor. Doesn't even necessarily need to be particularly realistic, as there is a lot of shenanigans that could revolve around the unique flavors of the game with ingredients sourced from drifters or other stuff related to rot, rust and whatnot. Overall could be interesting to let the doctor use a couple of their own unique medical cures, and repurpose poisons as healing items or vice versa - all classes could heal all injuries or diseases at a basic level, but a doctor could be more flexible and may use nonstandard ingredients (poisons, leeches, rot, rust) in potent but risky treatments.

[LadyWYT]

18 hours ago, Cedric the Silent said:

Wasn't the commoner class counted as the laborer class? They were the describe as the ones that did a lot of mining and other random labor jobs others weren't willing to do.

I don't know that it's other labor jobs the other classes weren't willing to do, since I don't think that most people really had a choice when it comes to what was going on the in underground. They did whatever was necessary to survive, and if that meant digging tunnels or hauling garbage then that's what you did.

As I understand it though, the Commoner is the "catch-all" class for any sort of professional background that would have been common in the medieval times and brings no special skills to the table, or at least, nothing special enough to make the class stand out from everyone else. So farmers, bakers, tanners, laborers, candlestick makers, common merchants, messengers, etc. all fit into this category. The other classes could pull from these backgrounds as well, but the difference is they have more specialized skills that are harder to learn, or have specific history(the Malefactor in particular) that make them what they are.

[Shaurian]

Plague Doctor stuff would be really cool