Water

[RTFM]

Hello.

Everything below is written only mine IMHO

It seems to me that there is not enough water in the game. Not the kind of water that is now in rivers and lakes. We need water as a resource so that players are very dependent on clean drinking water, as it was hundreds of years ago, when settlements were based on the banks of rivers and lakes.

I see something like this.

Pure water from streams and springs, it does not need to be purified and can be used immediately in cooking

River and lake water must be boiled before use

Water from the seas can be distilled to produce pure water and salt that many players cannot find Add water to almost all food crafting.

Also, make a thirst scale, which will depend on the load and the ambient temperature (you can also tie it to the food that the player eats, salty meat and vegetables will cause thirst faster) Make flasks and waterskins so that you can take a supply of water with you on a trip. Remove endless water from the bucket so that you cannot make lifts out of water, which will greatly complicate the arrangement of mines and the exploration of caves.

Water wheels that set the player's mechanisms in motion, regardless of the strength of the wind. Archimedes screw that lifts water into the house or irrigation canals of your field.

[RobinHood]

thats sounds good, and Cistern construction should also be a must in arid, semi-arid areas, maybe also in wet areas, because even in humid areas you have some very hot and very dry summers. Like in Europe in 1540, 2018 and 2019  e.g.

[DanaCraluminum]

On 1/26/2021 at 7:27 AM, RTFM said:

Hello.

Everything below is written only mine IMHO

It seems to me that there is not enough water in the game. Not the kind of water that is now in rivers and lakes. We need water as a resource so that players are very dependent on clean drinking water, as it was hundreds of years ago, when settlements were based on the banks of rivers and lakes.

I see something like this.

Pure water from streams and springs, it does not need to be purified and can be used immediately in cooking

River and lake water must be boiled before use

Water from the seas can be distilled to produce pure water and salt that many players cannot find Add water to almost all food crafting.

Also, make a thirst scale, which will depend on the load and the ambient temperature (you can also tie it to the food that the player eats, salty meat and vegetables will cause thirst faster) Make flasks and waterskins so that you can take a supply of water with you on a trip. Remove endless water from the bucket so that you cannot make lifts out of water, which will greatly complicate the arrangement of mines and the exploration of caves.

Water wheels that set the player's mechanisms in motion, regardless of the strength of the wind. Archimedes screw that lifts water into the house or irrigation canals of your field.

I disagree with one statement. "Pure water from streams and springs can be used immediately in cooking" is a big dangerous myth. You do not know which animal died there or was simply defecated. In real life you need to boil absolutely any water what you found in nature, unless you want to die from some kind of E. coli or etc.

Transparent water is not equal to pure. It's easiest to see under a microscope. I'm sure if you try to look at "the purest water in nature" under a microscope, you will find many microorganisms that can or will kill you.

That's if you need "pure water" (for drinking, not a distilled water for chemical experiments), you need to boil or make at least a primitive water filter from sand, stones, gravel, clay, etc.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Craluminum

[Thalius]

3 hours ago, Craluminum said:

"Pure water from streams and springs can be used immediately in cooking" is a big dangerous myth. You do not know which animal died there or was simply defecated. In real life you need to boil absolutely any water what you found in nature, unless you want to die from some kind of E. coli or etc.

Pure water safe for drinking is found in springs coming out of the ground. I've seen and drank from them without issue.  Streams no- they are open to the environment and anything can get into them.  A freshwater spring straight out of the ground or rock can indeed be perfectly safe for drinking.  The key though is acquiring it at the source. Once it hits the ground and enters the environment, it can be contaminated.

I honestly don't see the need for this in the game, but it would be an interesting feature that would add another level of depth to the experience.  Especially once some sort of thirst mechanic makes its way into the game.

[DanaCraluminum]

1 hour ago, Thalius said:

Pure water safe for drinking is found in springs coming out of the ground. I've seen and drank from them without issue.  Streams no- they are open to the environment and anything can get into them.  A freshwater spring straight out of the ground or rock can indeed be perfectly safe for drinking.  The key though is acquiring it at the source. Once it hits the ground and enters the environment, it can be contaminated.

I honestly don't see the need for this in the game, but it would be an interesting feature that would add another level of depth to the experience.  Especially once some sort of thirst mechanic makes its way into the game.

Faith does not make this water pure, even if the water is sanctified, even if is the spring. Everything I wrote above is not my personal opinion, personal opinion is not evidence, I took it all from the WHO website. Everything that you wrote is your opinion and I respect it, but without arguments, this proves nothing.

https://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/publications/dwq-guidelines-4/en/

I think if they add thirst to the game, then all sources will have to be dirty, even if someone's faith is strong and he believes that they are clean.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Craluminum

[Thalius]

I'm sorry if I offended. I'm wondering if there might be a language barrier issue and I came across other than I intended.  I meant no offense.
As for my statement regarding a clean spring suitable for drinking, this is not my opinion.

I certainly understand that it is safer to assume all untested water sources are dirty and need purifying before consumption, and the WHO recommends this because it is the only way to be sure when testing is not available, but there are clean, straight from the earth, drinkable water sources.

In ages past these were determined because folks drank from them and did not get sick. In today's world they can test the water to see if it is safe. In my personal example I had in mind a clean water spring in California that was a community water source. It was tested and proven pure, straight from the side of a rock in a national park.  It was and in some places still is common for wells to be dug into the earth that pulled water unfiltered from the ground that is clean, unfiltered and drinkable. Where I currently live one can do the same if they know the science of it.

I understand that what you wrote is your opinion and am not challenging that, I am just offering some additional info to support the idea that there could be rare sources of pure water in the game if such mechanics find there way into the game.  A local clean spring would be a charming thing to have nearby.

Humbly submitted...
~TH~

[Prin]

Appreciating the debate of how one could or should obtain suitable water for drinking and eating, I'd like to raise an important key thing that is often misunderstood or overlooked in fiction: wineskins are not designed for carrying water. If any container is made from animal products, and wineskins would have been, it will rot if the liquid it's carrying does not have a means of killing bacteria. Given the amounts of bacteria we could be talking about, and we need only look to how people pre-Edwardian era handled water - very literally, there was a time when booze was the safer thing to drink.

We will need materials that are water-resistant, non-porous, and non-toxic. One thing that would really help in transporting, preparing and storing water safely would be the inclusion of certain ceramic glazes to seal clay pots.

[Thalius]

2 hours ago, Shaelin said:

Appreciating the debate of how one could or should obtain suitable water for drinking and eating, I'd like to raise an important key thing that is often misunderstood or overlooked in fiction: wineskins are not designed for carrying water. If any container is made from animal products, and wineskins would have been, it will rot if the liquid it's carrying does not have a means of killing bacteria. Given the amounts of bacteria we could be talking about, and we need only look to how people pre-Edwardian era handled water - very literally, there was a time when booze was the safer thing to drink.

We will need materials that are water-resistant, non-porous, and non-toxic. One thing that would really help in transporting, preparing and storing water safely would be the inclusion of certain ceramic glazes to seal clay pots.

I was thinking this exact thing, but was not sure how realistic things should be taken.  Storing water long term with no added elements to keep it clean is only a recent thing in history.

That being said, there was news that stills are in the works, and if we are going to have those, hopefully putting away barrels of wine for fermentation will find it's way into the game too.   

Interesting part will be: what role will thirst and different types of beverages play in the game...?

[Prin]

20 hours ago, Thalius said:

That being said, there was news that stills are in the works, and if we are going to have those, hopefully putting away barrels of wine for fermentation will find it's way into the game too.   

Interesting part will be: what role will thirst and different types of beverages play in the game...?

I'm very excited for that update. For sure different wines will be on the list of things that can be made. If they added the humulus lupulus flower - AKA, hops - we could make beers, too, as well as stuff with other grains.

That said, there's some drawbacks that people might not realise when it comes to alcohol. The biggest one is that it's a false-friend in cold weather, despite the belief that some brews will warm you up, alcohol will make you actually more susceptible to frostbite. So I could see a system where someone actually takes damage if they venture out into cold weather with inadequate protection when they have a certain amount of alcohol in their system. Plus there's that added problem of inebriation. In mild cases, loss of coordination or delayed reaction time, and in severe cases possible loss of consciousness... and death.

That said, there already appears to be at least a basic drinking mechanic for milk, so it's very probable that this will be expanded upon. It's not nearly as much fun though.

[Thalius]

36 minutes ago, Shaelin said:

I'm very excited for that update. For sure different wines will be on the list of things that can be made. If they added the humulus lupulus flower - AKA, hops - we could make beers, too, as well as stuff with other grains.

That said, there's some drawbacks that people might not realise when it comes to alcohol. The biggest one is that it's a false-friend in cold weather, despite the belief that some brews will warm you up, alcohol will make you actually more susceptible to frostbite. So I could see a system where someone actually takes damage if they venture out into cold weather with inadequate protection when they have a certain amount of alcohol in their system. Plus there's that added problem of inebriation. In mild cases, loss of coordination or delayed reaction time, and in severe cases possible loss of consciousness... and death.

That said, there already appears to be at least a basic drinking mechanic for milk, so it's very probable that this will be expanded upon. It's not nearly as much fun though.

Alcoholic drinks do not have to be that strong. I'm fairly sure that, in the age that VS seems to sort of reflect, many brewed drinks were so light in alcohol that getting drunk off of them was hard to do.

A modern day, second world cultural example from where I live can be offered here- There is a jungle potato type root where I live that can be cooked and prepared much like any potato can be. But, they also use it for a drink. They boil it for a while and then mash it up, place it in a large container and let it ferment for a bit. They then take the mash and add it to water to drink, often in place of a meal. The drink is safe to consume due to fermentation, but the alcohol content is so low at first that you would have to drink more than you can hold in order to get drunk off of it.  I imagine early beers and other fermented brews were the same way. One would have to let it sit for a while and add other things to it to make it highly alcoholic.

I say all that to offer that I could envision a realistic an immersive way of making fermented drinks appropriate to the game world era without having to offer a strong inebriation element to consuming them.  I've played other games that had such mechanics applied to consuming alcoholic drinks in game, and it always came across more as a joke and silly rather than constructive to the game environment.

None of this has any real value as being necessary though unless, as the OP offers, water from lakes and such is not considered safe to drink unless it is prepared in some way first. Unless, of course, you are lucky enough to find some rare, pure, freshwater spring you can drink directly from as I've also suggested (for those players that really will not enjoy the brewing process).

[Prin]

Ooh, so something like a vodka, then. Nice! Good that you added the little caveat about letting it sit and ferment longer with additives increases the alcohol content - it could also be a factor in the process for the game, though - like with a lot of things we tend to discuss - it becomes a danger of making things just too stinking difficult/real.

Ancient Egyptians, for another, yet different, example, made their wine so thick and heavily concentrated that it could last a really long time in their sealed jugs, but... because it was basically cough syrup, they had to dilute it with water before it could be consumed. I'm also relatively sure they weren't the only ones who used this method, I think the Romans and Greeks did too. I only mention these because they are indicative of cultures brewing in a relatively early period in history.

All that stuff aside, there's also some fun that could be had in being able to craft barrels with their wood types preserved - any wine buff will tell you about how the cask the wine mulls in makes a difference, from colour and flavour. It could be a nice touch, I think, though I doubt the overall differences would result in better or worse thirst-quenching power.