Subjective world generation problems

[Erik]

First of, this is not about any bugs, this is about small subjective problems I feel the current terrain generation has.

1. Mountains are always looking the same, being some kind of plateau or really small hills
2. Climate distribution is all over the place, climates being to small for my taste
3. There is no macro-generation to manipulate the placement of landforms
4. Terrain generation scaling very badly with the build limit
5. Slopes in landforms always leaning towards being curved outwards, rarely linear and never curved inwards (see picture)

For fixing these problems, I would suggest:

1. Have a smaller, limited map size, and have climates arranged in a natural way (Equator -> hot climate, poles -> cold climate)
2. Some sort of macro generator, that roughly maps where oceans, mountains, flat plains, hills, etc. go, moddable
3. Terrain generation should get stretched along all axis, not just the height axi
4. Have the option to select which slope applies for which landform, possibly even linking slope type to height

Does any one else have similar problems with the current terrain generation?

[redram]

Well, I really, really with there were dynamic rivers like TFC2 had.  It'd definitely be nice if there were some kind of macro pattern - mountain ranges to river valleys to oceans.  But I can appreciate that that's probably extremely hard to accomplish.  Also oceans with beaches.

I think the more logical climate distribution will come in time.  I'm not sure we want to rush it too much, because right now having climates intermingled does make it easier to play-test and see a lot of climates in a small area.

As far as slopes, Bioxx had some very good points on that regarding the TFC2 hex landforms, in that if you make a slope actually uniformly sloped, it becomes a nightmare to navigate.  You're just constantly jumping because there's nowhere flat.   In a game like this I think it's good to have large flat areas, and yes even mountains with plateaus, for people to build on without having to spend years terraforming.  But even just wandering and exploring, it's much better to have a good amount of flat area, which VS does.  I do like the generous amounts of flat area that VS provides.  I do think inward curves could have their plates (at the base of mountainsides perhaps). 

Once we have more logical climates, I'd also like to see a greater variety within a given type.  For instance right now our 'swamps' seem to mostly be heaths, unless they're in a jungle in which case they're a jungle lake, because cattails don't exist in jungles so they don't feel very swampy.  I'd like to see termperate willow swamps, everglades type swamps, etc.   Similarly, I'd like deserts to be more than just sandy flat areas full of cacti and bones.  I'd like to see sagebrush badlands, and also Saharan wastes.  Stuff like that.

[Erik]

16 minutes ago, redram said:

Well, I really, really with there were dynamic rivers like TFC2 had.  It'd definitely be nice if there were some kind of macro pattern - mountain ranges to river valleys to oceans.  But I can appreciate that that's probably extremely hard to accomplish.  Also oceans with beaches.

Yeah, rivers and oceans would definitely be cool. I don't think programming macro generation would be that hard, as it would be much easier than to make than every type of terrain generation in  the game right now, but I'm not too experienced with procedural generation to know exactly.

19 minutes ago, redram said:

 As far as slopes, Bioxx had some very good points on that regarding the TFC2 hex landforms, in that if you make a slope actually uniformly sloped, it becomes a nightmare to navigate.  You're just constantly jumping because there's nowhere flat.   In a game like this I think it's good to have large flat areas, and yes even mountains with plateaus, for people to build on without having to spend years terraforming.  But even just wandering and exploring, it's much better to have a good amount of flat area, which VS does.  I do like the generous amounts of flat area that VS provides.  I do think inward curves could have their plates (at the base of mountainsides perhaps). 

I mostly meant slopes on mountains, I tried making custom landforms to resemble realistic mountains. The problem was, their peaks were to dull, they often just looked like a hill, a cut off mountain or giant male genitalia. Inward curves would really help there. Flat areas certainly have their place, but I feel like rugged areas have a place too. Building on flat planes often leads to relatively boring results, building on a mountain, shaping your castle to fit the mountain, that can create some really spectacular sites.

26 minutes ago, redram said:

Once we have more logical climates, I'd also like to see a greater variety within a given type.  For instance right now our 'swamps' seem to mostly be heaths, unless they're in a jungle in which case they're a jungle lake, because cattails don't exist in jungles so they don't feel very swampy.  I'd like to see termperate willow swamps, everglades type swamps, etc.   Similarly, I'd like deserts to be more than just sandy flat areas full of cacti and bones.  I'd like to see sagebrush badlands, and also Saharan wastes.  Stuff like that.

This is probably the most easy thing to archive, as it just needs new plants and trees to be added and maybe some changes to make the flora generation not only depend on climate, but region. Currently (if I understood the system correctly) all flora that fits the climate of a region (temperature and moisture) spawns in that region, meaning that adding new plants wouldn't create new climates, but extend the flora in existing climates. If a region was limited to a smaller selection of flora that fits the climate, we could archive more different, but less diverse, climates, i.e. not every swamp featuring flesh eating plants.  

[redram]

2 hours ago, Erik said:

 If a region was limited to a smaller selection of flora that fits the climate, we could archive more different, but less diverse, climates

Yes, that would be part and parcel.  I think it'd be great if a given climate zone could produce different biota.   It would make any given one a bit more special, potentially.