Tom Cantine

With respect, @Kalzamar, your experience is very different from mine. I have never found bowtorn or shiver to be an impossible challenge, even in early game. I appreciate that you think it's boring to stay in a dirt hut all night, but it's important to understand that this is a survival game, not primarily a combat game. Combat is important, but we're not here to just kill monsters and get treasure. We're here to manage our resources and figure out strategies to survive and, hopefully, prosper. And maybe if we're up to it, tackle the story progression. I do not find early game night time boring or impossible. Challenging, sure, but that's kind of the point. With proper planning and tactics, it becomes easy, but figuring out that proper planning and tactics can be a struggle. Time management and prioritization really make a difference. On day one, I may knap a knife and an axe and a shovel, but that's to speed up the absolutely essential GATHERING process. Gather as many berries and stones and sticks and a bit of grass and some firewood, and make the smallest most rudimentary shelter you can out of whatever you can collect fastest. Don't stop to eat, just gather. Run away from dangerous stuff. If I have time I like to spear a couple of fish, but leave hunting for day 2 or 3. The first night, there will be PLENTY to do, crafting baskets, cooking and eating, knapping more tools and weapons. You may think these tasks boring, but they really are the key to prospering in a survival game. But you know, if you're really into just combat, you might want to join a multiplayer server where you can specialize in patrolling and guarding the camp while your other companions tend to the other stuff. Even then, though, you'll need to acclimatize yourself to the fact that much of a soldier's life, even in wartime, is boredom.

Yes and no. There IS a fairly well-known edged weapon called a falchion, and it's even kind of similar in function, in that it's a sword-like edge with the weight far forward for heavy chopping, sort of like how the falx looks like it's designed to strike with the very end with a chopping motion (though the end is a stabby point). I think it kind of makes sense. And the Falx family could well have taken their name from the weapon.

In a word, knowledge. Yes, the lore books and scrolls and tapestries and things that tell us about the past, but I think there could also be things like recipes or schematics, knowledge of HOW to do something that previously you couldn't do. We already have a glider schematic in the game; it seems to me that there could be other lost technologies from before the catastrophe to recover. But the point of that is that they were trying to preserve what they could to rebuild society some day. And so I think it makes a lot of sense for them to have kept books, scrolls, patterns -- information to help the survivors recover knowhow that would otherwise be lost.

I have, on occasion, ordered a "double-double" at somewhere other than a Tim Hortons. Oh, and besides coffee? The game needs garlic. And butter. Garlic butter.

I am a little surprised no one has mentioned the usefulness of a hopper/chest as a secure mailbox on a claim, but maybe that's so well-established as to not need mention. Or maybe this is just a single-player thread. Okay, well, another use I am planning is in my in-game physics research. I have already established that falling damage is linear with height, just as one would expect from a potential/kinetic energy model. This data was collected by jumping off ladders of varying heights and recording the values in the Damage Log. I have read that items falling down chutes gain momentum with height fallen, and that this speed is translated to horizontal momentum at an angled chute. So my plan is to drop items down chutes of various heights and measure how far away they come to rest after the bend, to see if I can work out more of the physics of this world. Basically, Galileo stuff.

Oh, that's just what they WANT you to think! The codes go way deeper than you think. I've said too much already.

The relative "importance" of these things is always contextual. We can all think of situations where it's more urgent to heal than to open the door, and we can all think of situations where it's more urgent to open (or close!) the door than it is to apply the bandage or eat the food. Trying to guess that THIS particular item in your hot bar should change the normal priorities because you're focused on a particular scenario is just a recipe for greater confusion. A more generally applicable principle is ultimately going to be more efficient in the big picture, and arguably, being aware of WHAT YOU HAVE IN HAND is pretty darned important all the time. For example, I play on a laptop using a trackpad, not a mouse, which means that sometimes if I'm not careful I click with the wrong "button". So if I'm going to talk to a trader, I make sure I do NOT have a weapon in my active hand. Ideally I have RG in that hand or nothing, or occasionally the stack of resin I intend to sell on the Auction House. This ALSO avoids the problem of trying to eat instead of interacting with the trader. (Besides, it's just rude to talk with your mouth full.)

That's pretty cool. Have you considered building a henge or something along those lines? You don't need metal for that. And you can get decent precision by building it big enough. My first observatory was tiny, just 5x5 with the observation point in the center. I actually had to do some measurements on my seraph to find the minimum width I could pass through, so as to make the observation chair narrow enough to ensure a constant viewing position. But with the outer edge of the glass dome being only 40 voxels away from the observation point, there wasn't a lot of precision. The next dome was 9x9, which is much better, but still introduces some artifacts when chiseling. The instrument I'm planning now is called the Solar Occlusion Instrument, and it's meant to measure two things. First, I want to get the visual diameter of the sun. So the plan is to have a somewhat distant vertical slit (maybe 10m?), and to time exactly how long the sun itself is visible passing behind it. This time will give me a fraction of 24 hours, and be easily convertible to degrees of arc. Second, I want to test the hypothesis that despite its wide visible disk, the sun acts as a point source of light. I've noticed shadows seem to remain sharply defined no matter how far away from the object they are cast; there is no penumbra. So for this experiment a second slit will be set up a good distance from the first, such that light can only pass through both at a very precise angle. I will then time how long the sun casts light on the surface under/behind the second slit. Kinda neat how these experiments mirror those in the real world, where bigger and bigger baselines/apertures are need for finer and finer precision. Which is why I think a henge kind of structure would be so effective.

I think you are looking at an artificially narrow sample of what you consider "games". Watch children playing with their toys sometime: they are constantly inventing stories and engaging in make-believe, an instinct to imitate and rehearse the things they may find themselves doing in adult life. Formalized games like chess evolved out of this and the story element often becomes so abstracted as to be almost absent, but that doesn't mean the game isn't story-based; it's so story-based that we forget it's there. In the last century, we saw the emergence (or resurgence?) of the roleplaying game, which took formal rule-based elements from wargames like Chainmail and started re-introducing more story elements to become Dungeons & Dragons, and then a host of other systems, which in turn informed the growth of a whole lot of computer game genres, where story is central. And that brings me to the point I started to type last night for this thread but fell asleep before I could finish and the thread grew. FOR ME, much of the appeal of a game like Vintage Story is that it captures so many aspects of the human story that tend to be minimized or ignored in games like Valheim. Don't get me wrong, I love Valheim, but it emphasizes a very narrow range of challenge: the main danger or peril we have to overcome is dying gloriously in battle. And in a way, there is no failure there because dying gloriously in battle is how you are celebrated and taken to Valhalla in the first place, so win or lose the fight you're still a hero. But I think, from a human perspective, there is also drama in the myriad other challenges we face, some of which also are modeled in Vintage Story. Worrying about how you're going to have enough food and fuel to last through the winter is no less compelling that worrying about how you're going to defeat Bonemass. And more to the point, BOREDOM! I know it sounds strange to say this, because you typically play a game to escape boredom, but realistically overcoming boredom is a bossfight in its own. Being stuck inside during a cold winter or a temporal storm, you get restless, but that in itself is an opportunity to develop the virtue of self-discipline. Maybe boredom is the wrong word, because I think I'm immune to boredom (my mind is ALWAYS racing along) but tedium is definitely a thing, and endlessly grinding stuff in a hand-quern before you get to wind power is absolutely tedious. But I never get bored doing it because there's always so much to be doing in my mind: planning meals, crafting projects, trying to work out the most efficient way to smith a tool with the fewest hammer strokes, etc. And this is greatly enhanced by IMMERSING yourself in the game's reality. I mean, really suspend disbelief. Disbelief ruins the game. In the extreme disbelief case, you're not really playing any kind of game: you're just clicking a mouse button and pressing some keys. That's not really a bear; it's just a pattern of pixels on your monitor. Ho hum. What could be more dull than clicking buttons? But if you accept the premise that this isn't just an image on a monitor, but a bear trying to eat you, that's where the excitement starts to come in. Let it in all the way. The grind is a grind, absolutely, but be IN the grind. Feel your frustration and boredom at having to turn this stupid basalt quern handle again and again and yet again and jeez, why do you really need a pie after all if it's all this work? Just make porridge. Except dammit, you've been digging peat all morning and looking forward to that pie, and.... That's how I play, anyway, and I really enjoy it. I get that not everyone is into this kind of immersion, and that's fine. I really get from the OP's comments that they're kind of stuck in the narrow paradigm of winning and losing. And that's fine too, but to appreciate a game like Vintage Story more fully, you kind of have to get beyond that and embrace the nature of life and all its challenges, not all of which are as sexy as slaying dragons.

This is something I've been working on, as a player, for some time now. I built a sort of observatory, and spent long cold nights tracking the movement of stars and marking their progress by chiseling colored inlays into the glass observation dome. Prior to the most recent update, I determined that the stars moved around a point (the south celestial pole) approximately 17.5 degrees above the southern horizon. Oddly, this did not seem to change with latitude or the seasons, and it was quite a different ecliptic from the one I got by tracking the sun's path across the sky. After the update, the stars are supposed to move more in accordance with the latitude and seasons, and I'm working on making new measurements to confirm this and nail down the important details and principles. Identifying a North Star or South Star would be one goal. This means I'm also going to need to travel more to make observations from different latitudes. It's kind of a big undertaking and, from a gaming perspective, means I'm not going to run out of stuff to do for a long time. As for sundials, that's already been a possibility for a long time, and in fact the principle forms the basis for my next observatory design, because tracking the sun's position on a glass dome is inaccurate at the best of times, and often impossible due to cloud cover, but I've noticed that even on cloudy or overcast days objects cast pretty sharp shadows on the ground, so I can use that to establish the sun's position with much greater precision and in more weather conditions. I would appreciate some gadget like a sextant, but it's already possible to make a crude one. What you do is you chisel a piece of glass with inlaid calibrations of coloured glass, and you place it on a hay bale and observe the target star through the glass from a fixed position, and take note of where the star is in relation to the glass calibrations. This is a miniature portable version of the astronomical dome idea. As for cartography, yes please. I'd LOVE a way to put maps on parchment.

Oh, the shape of the world is a WAY more complicated problem than that. At least, if you assume that the sun and the stars (and, apparently, the moon, though I still have some kind of bug in my version that I can never see the moon at all) are actual objects in a three dimensional space, observed from the surface of the world.

I've been a bit prolific writing books in the multiplayer server I'm on. The first one I "published" (basically started selling copies on the Auction House) details the dimensions of a seraph, along with how I made these measurements. I figured that information might be useful to other players in chiselling stuff like furniture. So it's a reference work. I've also done one on the movement of the stars around the sky and how I made the measurements to calculate the celestial poles, except that's all obsolete since the update, so I have to do a bunch more astronomical observation and calculation. I've written a few on what I guess you could call philosophy, one that's also kind of a primer on panning, and I've recruited other players to contribute to original research (within the game world) into agriculture, weather, geology and so on. In time I expect we'll have collected and archived books codifying rules for some of the various player settlements on the server. Could be stuff like building codes and standards, contracts and receipts, correspondence and so on. Since the server's on all the time but most players aren't, dropping written parchments into claimed hopper mailboxes is a nice solution. I plan to write more how-to guides covering things that aren't in the handbook, sharing little efficiency tricks you pick up by playing for a while. Stuff like strategies to optimize smithing so it uses as little hammer durability as possible. And I'm sure there must be a market for cookbooks.

Yeah, I was lazy in my answer, sorry. Just noted that the links page referenced .net 8 rather than .net 7.

I had the same problem at first. Then I read the bit about the runtime file. They actually link to it on the page where you downloaded the game itself. Vanthrax mentioned it above, but now it's .net 8 instead of .net 7.

Well, I think the new clothes are just gorgeous! Such colours! Such quality! Such texture! And the fit, so flattering! The team has really outdone themselves. It's a shame these other players can't see and appreciate the craftsmanship here.

That's not what the game rewards. The game rewards you for being prepared, including being prepared to quickly improvise with whatever you have available. Your rewards would be even greater if, instead of digging your 1x2x1 hole, you'd prepared a secure base with water you could stand in to pan stacks of gravel you'd collected in advance, or a quern so you could grind limestone while waiting for the storm to break, or with a means to trap and safely dispatch drifters, etc. etc. I don't really object to enhancing the drops of some of the mobs, within reason. I very much like that they're having bowtorn drop bone arrows, for example. But I don't think that rewards should be tailored around the idea that fighting temporal nasties is normative. There are lots of stupid things you can do that do not deserve rewards commensurate with the risk. I tend to think that running out to fight otherworldly monstrosities is one of them. That's not to say there might not occasionally be really good reasons for doing so, but I'm okay with the current reward balance as it is. At least with respect to temporal storms.

What is the purpose of an incentive? It's to encourage people to do something you want them to do. So why do we want people to go out during temporal storms? I don't. I don't particularly care if they go out or stay in, but that's my point: I don't think the game developers really want to tell you you should or shouldn't go out in a temporal storm, either. You can if you want. Incentives in-game emerge organically. If you want to build something, you have an incentive to acquire materials. If you want not to starve or freeze, you have an incentive to go find food or fuel. And sometimes if you need Jonas parts or temporal gears, you have an incentive to brave a temporal storm. I think what you're asking for is not an incentive but a reward for something you already want to do. Killing drifters is how you want to spend time in the game, and you want it to be profitable to play that way. Okay, I get that desire. Maybe I'd like there to be an in-game reward for giving bony soil a proper religious burial, rather than panning it for valuables. Maybe I'd like there to be an in-game reward for serving a meal paired with just the right wine. Maybe I'd like there to be an in-game reward for mugging traders. But if these are things I WANT to do in game, my desire to do them shouldn't need to be reinforced by the game mechanics. Sometimes you can just do something difficult or dangerous for the bragging rights. If it becomes simply a rational economic choice, that kinda cheapens it.

Personally I do not see a need for this, as I don't think the temporal storms are meant to be a loot opportunity so much as a survival challenge. Storms are not difficult to survive if you prepare properly, and they can even be a source of some loot, but in the game universe, they're meant to be a bad thing. The drifters and bowtorn and shivers are pathetic, miserable beings corrupted by something unspeakable, consumed with hate for seraphs and all they stand for, and have nothing to live for but vengeance; we shouldn't expect them to be delivering presents. The reward for surviving a storm is that you survived.

The pancake example works only so far as you really have fully compliant and loyal underlings. Otherwise there will always be black markets and emergent standards of exchange as part of the "real" economy. Our modern sensibilities include the notion that you can get better compliance through ergonomics. I am not advocating that traders should buy whatever you bring them, nor that they should take orders. Only that the amounts they buy should be adjusted to reflect the multiplayer environment. Moreover, much of my argument is not even really about the traders themselves, except as a means of expanding somewhat the ability of players to earn RG through something other than mob farms. In any event, there's a reason I said these things should be server-configurable. You want to run a server with zero property tax? Great, have at it. You want to configure a property tax that encourages centralized towns, or one that rewards self-sufficient homesteading? Emergent capitalism? Feudalism? Go for it. What I'm suggesting is that the code accommodate all these approaches, and I feel that the model I'm suggesting would be a relatively simple thing to implement, as most of the components (traders, /land claim, etc.) already exist.

In principle you could absolutely do the paper notes thing today. I once played on a Minecraft server where we did just that: a trusted player stored iron ingots in an enderchest, and issued signed books he promised to redeem for the specified number of iron ingots. So long as other players are willing to trust that promise, the books were usable as money. And VS allows us to sign/transcribe documents, so they're just as unforgeable. There's no reason you couldn't set up a town and have any kind of tax system for the residents you wanted. No reason, that is, except for the limits of the /land claim system. I mean, you could claim a large plot of land and build a whole town in it, assign permissions to a group and then charge taxes to remain a member of the group. But this isn't what I'm talking about, and those "taxes" would be no different in principle from, say, a feudal obligation to provide one fatted cow every year. What I'm proposing would be more integrally coded into the /land claim system itself. I should have included the word "fiat". Fiat currencies depend on taxation, but those backed by gold or some other commodity do not. Still, I am not sure I agree about states, but then I would recognize as a state-equivalent for these purposes any community with established norms for deciding when a debt exists and what constitutes payment. That does hint at an important point: since RG have intrinsic value (in that they can be "crafted" into valuable items at an NPC trader), why should they need a drain in the form of property tax? And strictly speaking, no they don't need a drain to support their value as currency. But that's not the only reason I'm suggesting this property tax model. First, although they have some intrinsic value, their value in trade (that is, with other players, not as an NPC-mediated crafting ingredient) fluctuates WILDLY. Those players who choose to focus on generating RG through mob farms can amass vast quantities of them, which isn't a huge problem if all they do is hoard them in their basements, but if they actually USE them their buying power advantage over players who do not concentrate on mobfarming is huge, and price inflation results. Again, this isn't necessarily a huge problem insofar as other players can just opt out of the RG-based economy and live off the land, so to speak. That should always be an option, of course, but so should meaningful participation in the RG economy; it shouldn't require mob farming. And that brings the second point (something else I should have mentioned in my original post): There DO need to be more worthwhile ways to earn RG besides mob farms. In particular, the NPC traders' inventories and limits are quite well balanced for single player, but they don't make a lot of sense in a bustling server context. They simply don't buy enough stuff. A player who devotes their time to farming should be able make a decent income selling turnips. Idea: what if a trader's supply/demand inventory scaled with the number of distinct player land claims within a certain distance? So, for example, if you go way out into the wilderness and set up your homestead near a lone trader, well, the basic single-player trader inventory balance would apply. ("Why would I buy all those turnips? I can't eat them before they rot!"). But if other players show up and build claims nearby, a town starts to develop and the lone trader's buying capacity increases accordingly; presumably they're buying to supply some virtual residents of the area.) Third point: The property tax proposal isn't just to drain RG. It's also to provide a mechanism to deal with abandoned claims, instead of requiring players to petition admins to release a claim. As I mentioned in a comment above, this should also come with some enhancements to the claim system itself, such as ways to transfer ownership (say, by designating an heir). I've long thought there needs to be some kind of succession system in place, ideal with some customizability and different levels of access/control. Maybe abandoned claims don't get totally freed all at once, and they go to /grant all use first. But that's a subject for a different thread.

These are excellent points. I did not go into detail about how to calculate the basic property tax, but this is exactly the sort of thing I had in mind when I mentioned server-configurable variables for the formula. A player's first claim certainly could (and probably should) be free, if that's the kind of grace period you meant. The other grace period I'd recommend would be when introducing such a system onto an existing server, so as not to suddenly make a whole lot of claims disappear because their owners hadn't had reason to budget for this. I love the idea of a block to deposit RG into for this purpose, not only because it'd be way more convenient for claimholders but also because it would perform exactly the function this proposal is meant for: effectively removing RG from circulation. It occurs to me that it might be useful to also allow anyone to add RG to it, whether they own the claim or not, AND to allow the claimholder to withdraw RG from the block. It'd act like a hopper for players to pay each other when they're not both online at the same time. As for the period of 1 year, that was just a placeholder; I probably shouldn't have specified a time period. I'm aware that on TOPS a year is only 12 days, and also that six RL months is a reasonable time to declare a claim abandoned. I certainly wouldn't advocate that claims disappear after only 2 weeks of inactivity. Indeed, I had another suggestion on this forum about idle claims that I probably should have referenced here. It was about server-configurable triggers (e.g. the player hasn't logged in for some period of time, or the player hasn't set foot in the claim for some period, or X number of OTHER players have set foot in the claim, attempted to open a door, etc.) and included notice requirements in any event. So if one of your claims is getting near expiring, you'd get notice and a grace period within which to renew the claim. And after that grace period is up, the claim wouldn't necessarily disappear, but might go up for auction. The deposit block you suggested could administer the auction. Players deposit their bids, and when the auction closes the claim would be transferred to the winner, and the losing bids would be available to pick up free of charge from the block (or perhaps from a trader).

I have here a set of reforms aimed at making the in-game economy more playable, robust and realistic, as well as addressing certain problems that tend to emerge on any server that runs long enough. It’s assumed that Rusty Gears (RG) are the intended currency in the game, as they’re explicitly used as such by the NPC traders. And that’s fine; any arbitrary item can be used as a basis of trade/barter. But the problem with that is that there is in principle no limit to the number of RG that can exist. Precious metals like gold and silver have been used as currency for thousands of years because they are relatively rare, but a mob farm can generate about as easily as any other commodity can be farmed. So RG can accumulate at rates which have nothing to do with the amount of goods they can be spent on. (In fact, if anything, it’s an inverse relationship: the more time and resources players spend on farming RG, the less they are spending on farming those other commodities. More money chasing fewer goods is the very definition of inflation.) Now, it is also worth pointing out that you do not need RG to pursue your goals in game. Sure, there are a few things you might want that can only be bought from traders, but for the most part you can build a sprawling estate and farm all the crops and livestock you need, mine and process all the ores, craft all the gear and prosper just fine, and if you ever do need RG for that chandelier or elk, there are ways to obtain them. But note that in this sense, RG are really not so much a currency as essentially a crafting ingredient. A trader is just a kind of production station where the inputs are RG, and where you can convert certain select items into RG. And that’s why RG don’t really act like a currency: they’re not. They’re just a commodity that has its uses, and can be traded like anything else. Why do we accept them in trade? Well, we DON’T, unless we perceive we might have a use for them ourselves. That use might be simply trading them to other people for stuff we want, but again that brings us to why those other people might want them? This is a problem with money generally. Why would anyone accept it in trade? Once upon a time most currencies were backed by something of intrinsic value, precious metals usually (or bushels of grain, perhaps), but today we mostly use fiat currencies. At first glance we all accept these just because everyone else does so we know we can use them in trade, but there must be more to it than simply a collective agreement to recognize them as valuable? You’re not going to like the answer: taxes. Ultimately, the thing that makes money valuable is the knowledge that you’re going to need to pay some obligation to the sovereign government, and that sovereign government will ONLY accept its own sovereign currency in satisfaction of that debt. This is the insight behind Modern Monetary Theory (MMT). (I would add that there’s one additional related point: the courts recognize and enforce debts in the sovereign currency as well. If I sue you in tort or contract, the courts will recognize your debt as discharged if you pay in the sovereign currency, whether I want to accept them or not. But this is still a function of the sovereign state in declaring by fiat the money to be worth something). Another way to explain it is by analogy to an electrical current: you need to have a voltage, a cathode and an anode, somewhere the current flows FROM and somewhere it flows TO. Taxes are the anode, the drain that keeps dollars and euros and yen in demand. So sovereign governments, which can print all the money they need, raise taxes not to pay for stuff, but to ensure that the people need the money it prints. Of course, there is no obvious Sovereign in VS, no one who issues RG and collects anything like taxes and enforces judgments. Or is there? I would suggest that it’s the server itself, and it absolutely does perform at least a certain kind of enforcement function: land claims. If I claim a plot of land in the game, the server actually protects my exclusive right to use that land as I see fit. What I am suggesting, then, is a form of PROPERTY TAX. When you create a land claim, there should be a cost in RG. I haven’t worked out a formula for how this should be calculated, but this could all be system-configurable to allow different servers to experiment with the right balance. Factors to include in the formula could include size of the claim (volume), proximity to a trader, proximity to working translocators, proximity to other claims, and so on. Maybe there’d be a big discount for setting permissions for All to Use. I would also suggest that this property tax be periodic; you need to come up with enough RG to renew your claim every IG year or so. This would also provide an answer to the problem of abandoned claims. As we know, players drift away from the game from time to time, and just never log in again, leaving their claims idle but unusable by anyone else. Or some players may have several claims and simply lose interest in one of them. A modest property tax model would provide an organic way to retire old claims, and this could be structured to allow a variety of succession regimes. The point here is to implement a pull on RG, a reason why you need them, especially if you have a claim in a relatively populated area. Nothing would stop you from just homesteading way out in the wilderness without even bothering to establish a claim, other than the risk of being griefed way out there. You can be as self-sufficient as you want and never touch a rusty gear. But the system I’m proposing would help to transform RG from just another commodity with its random booms and busts, and a genuine CURRENCY that would provide a bit more stability in developed areas of the server.

I think snakes get a bad rap as it is. Most snakes aren't dangerous to humans at all. If snakes are added, I would like it to be more representative of actual snake diversity. We have many species of goats and deer and butterflies and mushrooms, after all. So I think it'd be nice to have quite a few different kinds of snakes, only some of which are dangerous. And having one near your crops could even be beneficial, as it keeps the rabbits away.

I would love to have a telescope. Even more so when they update the sky to be more astronomically consistent.

I do not see farming drifters for loot as an "intended gameplay loop". I have always seen the Rust world nasties as intentionally a Bad Thing, something to be avoided or mitigated, and if you CAN get something useful out of it, great, but most of the time they're a net negative. It is, of course, possible to farm them, but it's possible to come up with all sorts of ways to capitalize on hidden opportunities. There are dedicated mob farms that produce quite respectable quantities of loot, but like anything else it takes a fair bit of planning, resources and risk to construct an effective one where the more lucrative mobs spawn. And I think that's entirely appropriate.