CastIronFabric

1. that actually makes total sense to me. I would not be able to explain it coherently but it makes sense to me. 2. I cant speak to that. 3. I am not sure mechanical power changes actually affect existing mechanical power, it adds options does it not? maybe I need to look into this. That all said, I am rather excited about this update, this update are the kind of features I personally want, less so story content.

I do not know the context of what you guys are talking about but for the record I want to make clear my thesis is about interruption, not about random. I have made the mistake of using those two words interchangeably but my intent is to focus on interruption. For example, find a ruin, how much boney soil is there would be random. Digging and then all of the sudden out of nowhere a bear attacks you, that would be defined as interruption. I understand that technically both are random but I want (for the purposes of this conversation) to focus on the type of RNG that causes rather large interruptions to your existing play loop in that moment.

I did in my main post. If asked I would just end up re-typing it. If there is any of that example in my main post appears to not be talking about interuptions let me know and I will try to clarify

It took me awhile to understand you are referring to The Planet Crafter. It has been my mistake to use the word 'random' in my examples. I am really focused on Interruptions. My bad for not being clear.

I agree and to say again, I am not against RNG I understand its importance in games. I am saying interruption. Interruption is my entire thesis here, not RNG. Which is more compelling? going to the RA to encounter mystery and RNG or having RNG interrupt your building plans? THAT is my point EDIT: Regardling TP and drifters I am asking you if they are a major pillar to your game play experience because of the interuption factor. Not by extension of several layers deep but rather a major pillar to your game play experience where if they did NOT spawn in your base you would be disapointed near to the point of not playing the game, hopefully you can understand why I build that context given our conversation of Planet Crafter vs Vintage story. Because in that context the conversation was implicitly 'why we play the game at all'. I am suggesting you do not play it becuase or near because drifters can spawn in your base (CORRECTION: It has been my mistake to use the word 'random' in my examples. I am really focused on Interruptions. My bad for not being clear.)

once I stepped back a bit and gave all of this more thought I have to say I do believe that you feel 'interruption' game experience is important game play to you. HOWEVER, not in this specific game. There is just not enough 'interruption' game play experience in this specific game to make that a major motivator for play. TP storms? vast majority of people just sleep thru it, likely even you. drifters spawning in base? after copper you like just find it a bother like the rest of us. So the VAST majority of your game play you are doing something else and those things are more than likely the real motivator and attraction for you on this game. So for example: I find it a really hard sell to imply 'Planet crafters is just to predictable to for me but VS has plenty of randomness (correction: interuptions) to keep me engaged'. I can find that true for the first 5 hours of game play but after that I find that hard to believe to be honest.

no actually I am saying something different in that specific comment. What I am saying in that specific comment is that I am sure people can argue that 'interruption' RNG is engaging as a general principle. However, by proxy to imply that such 'interruption' RNG in this SPECIFIC game is somehow a pillar to the experience is actually absurd. Why do I say 'absurd'? Because in this specific game the vast majority of us (likely including everyone replying) does not even engage in TP storms and after copper find drifters spawning in base to be nothing more than a nuisance which means, they are actually playing this game for a different reason than the ones they are purporting here in this thread. make sense? To borrow from Thorfinn as an example: (not direct quote just lightly borrowed). Planet Crafters does not have enough interruptions to keep me engaged but Vintage Story does. Let that sink in a bit. Does that really sound plausible if you break it down honestly?

I think that is kinda what I am saying. I forget an important dimension to this proposition I am giving. Any counter view on what I am suggesting would almost require to come from a position that the current RNG interruptions and its storms are actually one of its best features..but is it? More I think about it the more I see the argument I am making is that going to the resonance archives for adventure is a better game design that adventure randomly coming to you even if you are trying to go to the bathroom (so to speak)

I would say the following games have just as much engagement, adrenaline pumping excitement with no interruptions Stationeers, Planet Crafters and even Kerbal Space Program while in flight, maybe not because of the possiblity of death but because you are presented with a challenge that as a good cadence feedback loop. Which is my point, I believe that it is possible to create the same positive experience without interruptions and thus reduce the negative, ADHD inducing side effects. ADDED: oh and as a side note, are we really making the suggestion that the randomness of drifters and TP storms in this game is really what makes it awesome sauce? I mean lets step back a bit maybe

I am reading your reply and struggling a bit to put it all together could you do me a favor and maybe number all of this so i can put it together as it relates to what you are replying to I am not the best at reading comprehension or conveying concepts to others to be fair. My underling point is, dont you think you can have the same level of engagement and excitement WITHOUT having interuptions on your path

sorry I asked this question and I should not have, it was my fault for bringing it up. Lets please get back on the core topic of 'interruption', I do not want to discuss what is or is not survial game here in this thread. Again, my fault. thanks for understanding

how would a modded minecraft be different from a survial standpoint than just playing vintage story with hostile set to passive?

1. I want to make this extremely clear, I am not suggesting "mistaking engagement with satisfaction" is a defect. I do it all the time myself. 2. have you played Planet Crafters by chance? 3. If you can, can you explain why you think interruptions specifically is a requirement for your desired game play as you have described and why it could not be manifested in a different way. So for example, a world can push back on your progress without interruptions. Interruptions are really only real time RNG within an RNG moment. Does that make sense? So for example, lets say you needed to do X in order to progress and that X had a TON of randomness to it and is highly unpredictable. What if that moment of randomness was a place you go to instead of a place that comes to you randomly. aka NOT RNG within RNG if that makes sense? can you elaborate because i am honestly curious. Basically what I am saying is this: isnt Resonance Archive challenges better than randomly interrupting your work at base? ADDED: I think its also helpful to distinguish that RNG and 'Interruption RNG' are two very different things within the context of my 'thesis'

agreed, which is kind of my point. Its the problem solving exercise that is enjoyable. So for example Planet Crafters, all the same amount of engagement, same amount of problem solving, etc. all have the same emotions of trying to solve a issue BUT..none of this 'interruption' stuff. make sense?

what specific crafting/building/block game with tons of things to make and build would you suggest then? Lets me honest here though, if you play a VS playthrough until end game, 90% of that game play when it comes to monsters is not exactly much of a challenge is it? its more like dealing with an ant problem in the kitchen or sometimes stopping what you are doing to sleep thru a storm, so clearly for people who play this game alot there is something else that they are compelled to. Lets be level here.

I am glad you read my detailed explanation as to why that is. Its fairly clear once you step back and read those points I wrote. The evidence is fairly obvious in those details I gave (Part 1 was very obvious in fact). I think maybe you just were not fully thinking thru what you were saying, I hope my reflection on your words helps. I would imagine looking back on it now that the argument of 'we can change how temporal storms work but we can not make them not global because the developers want it that way' is a bit circular and contradictory, we all do it sometimes.

well to be fair I am playing on a 1.20.12 which I forgot about. I did not alter the settings on Explorer mode either so maybe they have changed that finally

I am confused as to who specifically is having a problem. I think you are saying your better half is having a problem as well as the people running the server, meaning you are the only one who is not having an issue with the server? also, how do you know specifically the server is fine? regardless, when a server is added to the equation its usually the source, or the internet connection. By no means is that the overwhelming majority of cases but it is the 'usual'. Does whoever is having an issue have the exact same issue while NOT connected to the server? I do not think the size of the game save file would matter in this specific case but it would be nice to replicate a game file locally that is somewhat large

The game by reasonable measures is already a success. Speaking personally its the only game I own in the past 13 years that is NOT on Steam. They are not on Steam by choice despite the fact that they could easily bring in a ton more players and they know it.

yeah I know, and what is your point in that exactly?

your game progress ends after 4 hours max, its not 'stalled' its over until you find a clay deposit and all you do then is run around with flint items and a ton of reed baskets. I think the argument that you can realistically play this game without finding a clay deposit is flat out absurd. (EDIT: or more specifically that the game can be realistically played by getting most of your clay by panning) I think I am done here, I need to go for a walk anyway

I do not know what 'considered' to be actually means specifically in this context, I do not think there is an authority on that question. I make storage vessels first, pretty much every video I have ever seen that makes suggestions suggests storage vessels first and it makes sense because you are going to need storage long before you find BOTH grains and berries in quantities worth spending the time to cook in the early game. However, lets not get off point here. The point is, regardless of what you clay form first, within about 4 hours of game play you are going to need to find a clay despot or else you will be playing with flint everything and nothing other than reed baskets and no doors and there is no way around that.

I would put a cooking pot lower on that list to be frank. The first problem that is going to really be self evident is storage (even more so if you are panning), I always make a storage vessel first both for storage and to prevent spoilage. That all said, lets all get realistic here. Regardless of how you shake it, within the first 4 hours of game play you are going to be stuck in the flint age if you do not have a clay deposit and there is not any realistic way around it if we are all being honest.

last night 64 clay got me a 1 cooking pot, 1 complete storage vessel and 1 incomplete storage vessel. Nobody is disputing that you can find clay while running around looking for other things, we are disputing that you can realistically get enough clay to be useful by panning. panning for copper? yes because you only need 40 total to get into the copper age. However you need much MORE than 125 clay to get to the copper age and even more than that to get storage that is useful. I have never seen, heard of or play with on multiplayer anyone who sets out to get clay from panning because they have not found a clay depsoit.

Before I begin, I want to mention that setting Hostility to Passive does NOT make the monsters attack you if you attack them, animals yes, monsters no. I think this really needs to be fixed/changed. Also, some of you have read my main point on what I am about to say and I am not trying to be clever by hiding it to its conclusion, I am just presenting it in a different way that might resonate better. So last night I played in Normal mode and this is what happened to me and why I do not do it nor will not do it unless on multiplayer: ---I got up in the morning and went to an area I was thinking of moving to as a permanent base, while looking around at various site locations I got attacked by a moose, then a bear. By the time the pig attacked me I had to go back to starter base and wait out because it was nightfall and I was starving. Guessing on the timeline I would guess I spent about 5 mins studying various areas in that location for a place to camp and about 30 mins avoiding, running and waiting back at my base. Mentally I basically lost that 5 mins of concentration on something I actually wanted to do and 30 mins doing something I did not want to do. Now I have to do the concentration all over again because that thought process was interrupted and not stored in my brains hard drive. (or actually kill that save file and never do this again) I do not find this satisfying. I struggle to understand why people find that satisfying, I suspect there is an answer to that quandary but I have yet read one that is really very solid. I can manufacture one that might be solid and here why I think some people do in fact enjoy it, bear with me on this possible explanation, I do not consider it bullet proof and parts of it are actually rather hard for me to explain. Mistake engagement with satisfaction -- Engagement: The brain is engaged in a goal (reward) that it wants and its engaged in the challenge on how to get it. While in that state of mind WHAT the challenge is does not really matter that much, brain is given the possibility of a reward it wants and presented with a challenge on how to get it and the brain goes into full on GO mode and frankly gets obsessed about the goal without ever pausing to ask why its done this way in the first place or is it really as satisfying as it could be. In short making it hard to distinguish obsession with actual satisfaction. Caveat : I do this, so I want to make clear I am not suggesting I am somehow immune to doing the things I mention here, I absolutely do. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If anyone has a better answer to why interruption of that level is satisfying I would love to hear it. Now on to how I think it could be done better. Now on to how I think it can be made better I would be shocked if there exists any study on the brain or psychology that shows interruption is satisfying, let alone how interruption breaking flow is somehow satisfying. I have heard convincing arguments that randomness is a critical role in game design (by game design I mean all games not just video games). However I think there is a point where interruption goes to far. I think a better solution to interruption and randomness, is planned events/locations. I have played games in which we plan, build, make, organize for weeks before going to a specific place to have our battles (and incidentally test 'randomness' while doing it) and there is no way random attacks come remotely close to that level of satisfying game play. I think far to many building games have a problem with interruptions in a bad way. For this game specifically I am not having it. Thanks for listening