Magic

[Burgersim]

Hi there, just wanted to suggest this, because I talked about it with a friend. I am also aware that this (if something like this ever comes to pass) will not be one of the most important things, but I wanted to propose it nonetheless, maybe to get some Ideas and start spitballing it a bit too ^^

 

So my Idea would be to introduce a Magic System into the game, but not something very overpowered. I think it should be a more "ritualistic" and nature-bound approach. There could be powders you can make and infuse with certain magic (or elements) and maybe you'd need to make runes on the floor or on objects that would grant certain effects. If you go further this could even be a system where you could really "craft" certain spells with certain effects a bit like the cooking. Certain ingredients give certain effects, and applied in certain patterns they work in different ways, so you could even have people try stuff out and teach others how to use spells and runes. Spells themselves could be really little things, maybe even working in combination with runes and ingredients to really make spells that even do anything. And depending on the system there could either be something like mana that gets used when using a spell, or spells could just use stamina like fighting does. There was an interesting way spells worked in Outward, i think, where you had a spell like "Spark" that didn't really do damage or anything, but if you used inside a certain rune that you'd have to lay on the floor then it would become sthg like a fireball, I think that could be an interesting way to implement magic, but not in an overpowered way.

Totems also could be interesting. You'd need certain woods, then you'd need to carve out the right form for a totem, and lastly you'd need to perform a ritual to infuse the totem with some form of magic. In this way you could not only make tokens but also talismans, and maybe there too the ingredients and "work" you put into a talisman or totem could heighten its quality and potency, so a "tribe" could actually have someone like a shaman who would make totems, talismans and protect the camp with runes and magic ^^

Of course brewing and potions are also an interesting way for "magic" to be implemented, but it does seem more like alchemy to me and some form of "spells" or other magic would still be an interesting idea, I think ^^

 

What do you girls and guys think about this? Any ideas? Did I even explain it well enough? If it would help I could try and cook up some graphics to explain it further or just try to explain it better in general ^^ I'm not sure, but I hope it was ok ^^*

[Yukihira_S]

First of all I'd like to thank you for your contribute. Honestly I'm not fond of magic. Nevertheless, I think that it would be nice to introduce some more herbal medicine (when I check the handbook I can see many herbs which can be used as spices and to brew medications) and chemistry in order to obtain remedies for various afflictions and pave the way for a technological development.

Some examples with already existing items:

From sulphur you can make sulphuric acid which can be used with lead to make accumulators.

From ashes it's possible to obtain potassium hydroxide (useful to make salt peter) and lime.

[Burgersim]

I get that people aren't fond of magic, especially in a game that is kind of realistic and slow and doesn't wanna overpower the player. That's why I think something like Totems and Talismans and maybe like Powders (e.g. Smoke "Bombs", "Spark") you can use "as Spells" would be more suited for this kind of game. Also, I think somehow magic does fit into this game, because especially in the early stages of human development people believed in magic, because they couldn't explain everything and I think it would fit in a tribal, (pre)historic setting like this one. I admit that stuff like the runes and spell scrolls are more "out there", but I think some "low key" stuff could work really well with the setting ^^

[Yukihira_S]

I was thinking again about your idea. Actually the Totem thing may be an interesting addition to the game. I thought that a Totem placed on your settlement may give you some indirect advantages linked to a certain deity. Here some suggestions: a totem devoted to a protective idol may reduce the chances to meet hostile mobs in the surrounding area or a fertility one may increase your crops' yield. After totems, the next tier could be temples which can store multiple idols and an altar to make offers.

I suppose that some objects like weapons, tools, and armour (not yet introduced) may be "blessed" to obtain buffs. Nevertheless, I think that spells could end up to change the game too much. 

[Burgersim]

30 minutes ago, Yukihira_S said:

I was thinking again about your idea. Actually the Totem thing may be an interesting addition to the game. I thought that a Totem placed on your settlement may give you some indirect advantages linked to a certain deity. Here some suggestions: a totem devoted to a protective idol may reduce the chances to meet hostile mobs in the surrounding area or a fertility one may increase your crops' yield. After totems, the next tier could be temples which can store multiple idols and an altar to make offers.

I suppose that some objects like weapons, tools, and armour (not yet introduced) may be "blessed" to obtain buffs. Nevertheless, I think that spells could end up to change the game too much. 

Wow yes this sounds really awesome tbh, blessing certain items for certain buffs and maybe introducing blessing pendants and talismans, that sounds like it would fit really nicely into the setting of this game ^^ and the idea of tiers like, totem --> (statue) --> temple --> (sthg else?) for certain area effects is also really good, I think, I would only maybe add, that people would have to actually praise these deities, like making offerings or praying before them (sitting a certain amount of time?). So it wouldn't be only a passive thing, you'd actually need to kinda work to have and receive these blessings ^^

[Yukihira_S]

What you said is really interesting. I hope that VS finally develops into a game that privileges teamwork, where players act like a party in a RPG. In other words, in a players party there should be place for a sorcer/priest who can ensure that deities keep to grant their favor to the party's settlement. 

Here's another idea: to make the thing more active and less boring for the player the sorcer should be able to enter into a trance state and start to play in a sort of spiritual world which could be similar to the overworld but in this parallel dimention the player should be able to kill evil spirits and complete quests given by a certain deity. Obviously, to a quest completions should correspond a buff. 

[Burgersim]

19 minutes ago, Yukihira_S said:

What you said is really interesting. I hope that VS finally develops into a game that privileges teamwork, where players act like a party in a RPG. In other words, in a players party there should be place for a sorcer/priest who can ensure that deities keep to grant their favor to the party's settlement. 

Yes, this would also be sthg I'd really love, like building a kind of society on a Server for example, where everyone has their roles, hunters, priests, cooks, carpenters, farmers, animal-keepers, and so forth. What one has to keep in mind is always the direction of the game, I guess, it shouldn't rely too much on having more people, if there are people who like to play this alone they should still be able to do that. Maybe, if a system like this was to be more heavily implemented, you could use the server settings to set experience gain or how much certain things need to be actively used, so that if you set this low for a singleplayer world you wouldn't have to run from thing to thing to keep everything in order, but on a multiplayer world you could set it so that people have to work together (I think the game "Eco" does sthg similar to what I mentioned for server settings).
 

19 minutes ago, Yukihira_S said:

Here's another idea: to make the thing more active and less boring for the player the sorcer should be able to enter into a trance state and start to play in a sort of spiritual world which could be similar to the overworld but in this parallel dimention the player should be able to kill evil spirits and complete quests given by a certain deity. Obviously, to a quest completions should correspond a buff. 

This sounds very interesting and more fun than "just sitting around" or offering food, but to me that would sound a bit more like a modded feature of VS than sthg that fits the base game, tbh. I mean, knapping, cooking, smithing, those are all relatively slow things, where you concentrate on the task at hand, not really sthg where you are suddenly, like, "thrown" into a minigame of sorts. Also, idk if that is really planned but are other dimensions sthg the developers want for their game? Because I'm actually pretty satisfied with having one dimension, one world, it fits the more "realistic" approach and feel I get from VS, in my opinion. Not to say that the idea does sound bad, just that it does sound a bit "off" from the base game to me personally.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Burgersim

[MICHAEL CAMPBELL]

Id Like to see maybe not a so traditional magic system in the game but a "magic" none the less. To a primitive person a cell phone would seem like magic and we already have an example in game of a wonderful story and a strange new "magical" Item seemingly from a long lost ancient civilization "the temporal Gear".

Its a wonderful interesting device that has the power to set your spawn.  But is that all it does?....:) I think the original story and the line on which it is based just needs to be expanded upon and a magic will happen. One of the things I enjoy the most about the game is not the realism but the exploration of the ruins and world around me and the struggle to not only survive but thrive and to slowly over time develop through hard work and effort a experience that becomes both easier and more advanced over time. 

I would love to have more reasons to chase the ancients and learn more about how they lived and how their technology was used and be able to apply it directly to my survival experience.

If the tech progression was done right it could be alien and strange and wonderful and seem like a wonderful kind of magic indeed! Anything that can or would immerse me even more into the back story. A world rediscovered full of dangers and exciting history of lost culture and wonders would be absolutely amazing! That Kind of magic already truly sets this game apart. It needs the Lore , the exploration the Discovery and with that its own magic can and will happen.

Its already a truly magical and wonderful experience!

Edited January 8, 2020 by MICHAEL CAMPBELL

[Jasonpra]

On 9/24/2019 at 2:18 AM, Burgersim said:

I get that people aren't fond of magic, especially in a game that is kind of realistic and slow and doesn't wanna overpower the player. That's why I think something like Totems and Talismans and maybe like Powders (e.g. Smoke "Bombs", "Spark") you can use "as Spells" would be more suited for this kind of game. Also, I think somehow magic does fit into this game, because especially in the early stages of human development people believed in magic, because they couldn't explain everything and I think it would fit in a tribal, (pre)historic setting like this one. I admit that stuff like the runes and spell scrolls are more "out there", but I think some "low key" stuff could work really well with the setting ^^

I agree with what you say. Magic I feel would fit into this game pretty nicely. But I feel it should be largely ritualistic and lean heavily into Alchemy and cimbalisam. Talismens would be a great addition I feel and they could pull some inspiration from existing neo-pagan beliefs.

[Hal13]

Something clearly seen as magic doesn't fit to VS imo, but something resembling pseudoscience or something that could be futuristic science does. Maybe players can find old machines in ruins (claimed by the system like trader carts), additionally there could be tiered blueprint parts as monster loot, finding those machines might unlock multiblock crafting recipes and puzzling together those blueprints might unlock crafting recipes for smaller things (and of course they should be able to be placed down as wallpaper). maybe one of those machines would act like a drifter lure or scare mobs away who aren't fully domesticated? with such you could funnel drifters, even those spawned in a storm, into areas where you aren't bothered by them. Maybe others help with irrigation and fertilization of farmland, think sprinklers. Maybe one of the blueprints grants a recipe for a fertilizer better than the easily craftable ones, maybe another would grant a recipe for something preventing any spawns (drifters, animals and weeds) on farmland it rains down on... You could build the multiblock machines (and craft the blueprint items) without the recipe of course but if you put stuff at the right position gets only checked and the recipe in the manual only shown if you've examined (clicked on or successfully built) one of those before.

Of course if more lovecraftian horrors get introduced that might open the game to more magic like things, maybe using temporal stability as fuel for rituals and "spells" (personal stability for smaller things and the stability of an area for big effects), kinda like in lovecraftian horror magic grants high benefits but usually comes at even greater costs.

On 9/24/2019 at 9:18 AM, Burgersim said:

it would fit in a tribal, (pre)historic setting like this one

What do you mean with pre historic setting? The traders are clearly at least late roman period (I'd even argue at least medieval, but it's difficult with the setting being post apocalyptic and there being lootable stuff still all over the place), the setting is post apocalyptic and the defined goal for the devs is technology of the steam age, with them encouraging modders to introduce electrical age, atomic age and later technology. The player might start with having to go up the technological evolution, but is able to skip certain steps if lucky enough while exploring. The tribal part may be wrong too, the trader's race is capable of fighting and winning against anything, including somewhat decent equipped seraphs, barehanded, without having to fear wildlife they don't really have an incentive to form big communities, but that doesn't mean they live as tribes, they could very well just roam around and only settle down after they've seen their fair share of the world, they are the apex predators of the world (as of now) and obviously they know how to use the temporal gears to set a spawn point (the same trader respawns in their cart if killed, and they still are mad at the one who killed them, it just takes more time than it does for seraphs) and how to claim areas to prevent thieves from stealing their property, for that they have to know that fighting each other is more or less pointless which in turn makes forming tribes more hassle than it's worth as you don't need a tribe for neither protection nor attacking and looting others. If you assume them to be as curious as humans (could be, if not for the pressure of fitting into groups) you'd get a society of people who'd travel at most in small groups, who'd settle likely only kinda temporary and who aren't really religious (as it is fear that drives religion), of course they could fear certain technologies as they see proof all around them that it lead to society's downfall before, but they might be human enough to not care and thinking of themselves as not able of making the same mistakes as those before them.