Diseases

[MassiveHobo]

We could incur illnesses that hamper our abilities. Increased hunger, sneezes and coughs that draw predators, reduced resistance to extreme temperatures, more sluggish movement and resource harvesting. Perhaps weakness that reduces our mining level by 1 which downgrades the tier of our tools. They could be cured with more & better rest, teas, having more of a certain nutrient in your diet, foraged raw wild edibles, or being at max health with high enough hunger for a long enough period of time. After a point the game becomes too easy. I don't want sweaty streamer difficulty, but I don't want to get bored the moment I have a greenhouse, bronze tools, and livestock.

[Krougal]

You have died of dysentary...

 

[Thorfinn]

That was an awful game. Fine for its time, I guess, but still. Ciompared to, "YOU ARE IN A MAZE OF TWISTY PASSAGES, ALL ALIKE." Hmm, No wonder we have hearing loss. Our games were shouting at us.

Edited December 7, 2024 by Thorfinn

[LadyWYT]

Having played with a mod that adds diseases...no, absolutely not. It wasn't really fun, it wasn't really challenging, and it was more annoying than anything else. Leave that concept to the realm of mods, where it belongs.

On 12/6/2024 at 4:48 PM, MassiveHobo said:

After a point the game becomes too easy. I don't want sweaty streamer difficulty, but I don't want to get bored the moment I have a greenhouse, bronze tools, and livestock.

Sounds like you may need to tune some settings to increase the challenge, or look into mods that add more challenge(such as thirst or disease). Though in all fairness, once one learns the ropes of most any game, and acquires decent gear...it's going to be relatively easy compared to how one first started out.

 

On 12/6/2024 at 4:48 PM, MassiveHobo said:

They could be cured with more & better rest, teas, having more of a certain nutrient in your diet, foraged raw wild edibles, or being at max health with high enough hunger for a long enough period of time.

Incidentally, this is the reason I said the disease mod(XDiseases, I think it was) wasn't fun. Most of the diseases you could avoid just by following these steps and otherwise not playing recklessly, which essentially killed any challenge the mod might have had. As for the stuff you could catch randomly, like colds(which were overtuned anyway)...the problem there is that if it just happens, it's going to be mildly annoying at best, because now you have to put up with something you didn't have any chance to avoid. At worst, you have to put up with having your gameplay knee-capped by something you had no control over.

Now accidents do happen in normal gameplay, of course, but those tend to be pretty rare since the player usually has some way to actively mitigate bad things happening. Don't want to get chomped by bears/wolves? Pay careful attention to your surroundings, don't charge into places they might be lurking, and don't poke them unless you're ready for a fight. Likewise, watch your step when traveling to avoid falling into deep holes, and always bring some ladders to ensure you can climb out of a hole if you should happen to fall in(and survive). In contrast, diseases are like temporal storms; they just get dumped on you and you're left to deal with the effects...but the temporal storms actually warn you in advance and give you a shot at nice loot.

[Hagsterr]

I agree with what LadyWyT says and would like to say that in my experience, diseases in games are generally not fun...

Unless you make them lesser than in real life. I thought Skyrims disease system were quite good, rarely were affected by it but when you were you were like "cool, now I have to visit a town or drink this potion because I got bitten by a Wolf which had a disease". It made the world feel more alive in a sense but just enough not to burden your tasks you were committed to do.

So having to make a herbal tea and maybe go to bed early and having the effect lessen by how long you sleep good be a cozy mechanic without burdening the player too much. In real medieval times you would not do much if you got sick for weeks.

Diseases caused by animals could maybe be blocked by using a shield so they dont bite your arm, or atleast lower the chance of getting bit... Something like that would be cool.

[RobinHood]

here are my ideas
 

Add a layer of survival realism to Vintage Story with illnesses that strike randomly or arise from untreated injuries, like gangrene. These diseases could range from mild inconveniences to life-threatening conditions. Each ailment brings unique gameplay challenges—slower movement, reduced strength, blurred vision, hallucinations of non-existent monsters, or creeping health loss.

However, hope isn’t lost! Players can seek cures through rare herbs, ancient remedies found in ruins, or precious Manuka honey harvested from the tea tree. Merchants might trade these life-saving resources for high-value items, turning honey into an essential ingredient for survival.

To enrich the experience, here’s a list of 8-12 illnesses and their realistic effects and remedies:
1. Common Cold (Mild)

    Effects: Slightly reduced stamina regeneration, occasional sneezing (interrupts sneaky actions).
    Heals Naturally: Within 3 in-game days.
    Remedy: Honey tea (crafted from honey and hot water) speeds up recovery.

    How to Contract: Prolonged exposure to rain or snow without proper clothing.
    Prevention: Stay dry and warm; use wool or leather clothing in cold climates.

2. Food Poisoning (Moderate)

    Effects: Gradual health loss (1 HP per 4 hours), reduced hunger regeneration.
    Remedy: Charcoal powder (crafted from charcoal) neutralizes toxins.

    How to Contract: Eating spoiled food or undercooked meat.
    Prevention: Cook food thoroughly and store perishables in a cold environment (cellars, iceboxes).

3. Wound Infection (Severe)

    Effects: Gradual health loss (1 HP per 2 hours), slowed movement.
    Remedy: Apply antiseptic herbs like yarrow or a poultice made from honey and bandages.

    How to Contract: Failing to treat open wounds caused by animal attacks or accidents.
    Prevention: Clean wounds immediately with water and apply herbal bandages.

4. Gangrene (Deadly)

    Effects: Rapid health loss (1 HP per hour) if untreated, debuffs to movement and combat.
    Remedy: Crafted antibiotic salve from rare herbs like golden seal and honeycomb.

    How to Contract: Untreated severe wounds or infections.
    Prevention: Always carry antiseptic herbs like yarrow and keep a first-aid kit ready.

5. Dysentery (Severe)

    Effects: Increased thirst, health loss (1 HP every 4 hours).
    Remedy: A decoction of mint and chamomile.

    How to Contract: Drinking untreated water from swamps, lakes, or rivers.
    Prevention: Always boil water or use a water filtration system.

6. Hallucinatory Fever (Severe)

    Effects: Hallucinations of monsters, blurred vision, erratic movement.
    Remedy: Brewed tea from passionflower and valerian root.

    How to Contract: Sleeping in areas with high humidity and without proper shelter, particularly near swamps or jungles.
    Prevention: Build enclosed shelters and use insect-repellent herbs like citronella.

7. Swamp Fever (Moderate)

    Effects: Reduced stamina and slower regeneration.
    Remedy: Boiled water infused with mugwort.

    How to Contract: Spending too much time in swampy or tropical areas without protection.
    Prevention: Avoid prolonged exposure to these areas; wear mosquito-repelling clothing.

8. Frostbite (Severe)

    Effects: Permanent health reduction until treated, slowed movement.
    Remedy: Warm compresses made with hot water bottles or animal fat balm.

    How to Contract: Staying in freezing environments without adequate protection.
    Prevention: Wear insulated clothing and avoid sleeping outdoors in cold biomes.

9. Scurvy (Severe)

    Effects: Gradual health loss (1 HP per day), reduced combat effectiveness.
    Remedy: Citrus fruits or brewed pine needle tea.

   How to Contract: Long periods without consuming fruits or vegetables.
    Prevention: Maintain a balanced diet and grow citrus fruits in greenhouses if necessary.

10. Malaria (Deadly)

    Effects: Cyclical fever waves, blurred vision, and severe stamina reduction.
    Remedy: Cinchona bark tea (crafted from bark found in jungle biomes).

   How to Contract: Bitten by mosquitoes in jungle biomes.
    Prevention: Sleep under protective nets or craft mosquito-repellent salves.

11. Tetanus (Deadly)

    Effects: Constant muscle spasms, inability to use tools properly, rapid health decline.
    Remedy: Antibiotic potion made from rare jungle herbs and honey.

    How to Contract: Stepping on rusty nails or other sharp metal objects.
    Prevention: Wear sturdy boots and be cautious when scavenging ruins.

12. Heatstroke (Moderate)

    Effects: Increased thirst, reduced stamina.
    Remedy: Rest in shade and drink cool water.

    How to Contract: Overexertion in hot climates without adequate hydration.
    Prevention: Stay hydrated and rest in shaded areas during peak heat.

This feature could expand Vintage Story’s survival mechanics while encouraging exploration and resource management. What do you think of this idea?

Gameplay Impact

    Random Illnesses: Diseases like the common cold or food poisoning may occasionally strike without direct player action, adding tension.
    Encouraging Preparedness: Players must carry clean water, first-aid supplies, and proper clothing to mitigate risks.
    Rewarding Exploration: Rare herbs and remedies hidden in ruins or biomes motivate players to venture out of their comfort zones.

This feature encourages players to balance exploration with preparation and care, making survival in Vintage Story more immersive and rewarding.

[Thorfinn]

27 minutes ago, RobinHood said:

What do you think of this idea?

Depends on what you are trying to do.

Gygax et al. went HP as an abstraction not because specific damage and illness were hard to do, but simply because in his opinion, the game was about the adventure, not trying to model "reality". Others, like Rolemaster and Harn and such did a more robust injury and illness system, because in their opinion, people preferred a more gritty "realism". Each camp has its adherents.

I'm in the former. Maybe if you were playing a human, but the game has gone the extra distance to make the point that seraphs are not humans.

I'm all for it as a modpack. I might even be tempted to play it, though the idea appeals about as much to me as making bodily waste elimination an explicit action. Yeah, I know it happens. It's just not something that I think I want to spend game time on.

Edited December 9, 2024 by Thorfinn

[Echo Weaver]

Heh. I cut my tabletop RP teeth on GURPS (I'm a "hard core" RPGer who has played almost no D&D, so basically nobody knows how I feel), which is also known for extremely detailed simulation -- though it does have HP as a stat. We always came up with some way to simplify stuff because we wanted to move on with the adventure 

Honestly, communicable diseases are probably not a big deal for our seraphs. We're not humans. In a single-player game, we never see any others of our kind. With a population that low, there's not a lot of way for seraph-specific diseases to develop, even ones that are transmitted by other creatures.

Wound infections, heatstroke, or malnutrition are not diseases. We already have a nutrition mechanic, though it's focuses on positive nutrition rather than malnutrition. I argued in favor of a heatstroke mechanic in a different thread. Which leaves wound infection, which I'm ambivalent about.

[Thorfinn]

2 hours ago, Echo Weaver said:

Which leaves wound infection, which I'm ambivalent about.

How are you on seraphs needing stitches? Sew-sew?

[LadyWYT]

3 hours ago, Echo Weaver said:

Honestly, communicable diseases are probably not a big deal for our seraphs. We're not humans. In a single-player game, we never see any others of our kind. With a population that low, there's not a lot of way for seraph-specific diseases to develop, even ones that are transmitted by other creatures.

A very good point as well. Although if any disease got added, I'd expect it to be a future plot point of getting some sort of nasty Rust infection or something, that you have to go find a cure for before you turn into some horrible creature.

[Krougal]

On 12/9/2024 at 8:24 PM, Thorfinn said:

How are you on seraphs needing stitches? Sew-sew?

If we get a "boo-hiss" reaction added as an option, it will be because of you

[Echo Weaver]

37 minutes ago, Krougal said:

If we get a "boo-hiss" reaction added as an option, it will be because of you

I think we really need a groan reaction.

[Vinegaroon]

You have contracted rabies

Edited December 20, 2024 by Vinegaroon

[Maripop]

Food poisoning and scurvy could be interesting if cooking were to be more in depth, but diseases should be kept to livestock, or be able to be ticked on or off at world creation at the very most.
It'd be rather annoying attempting to not die once in a world, then getting screwed over because you rolled a 1/100 die and hit the mark, and there's just nothing you could've done.

[LadyWYT]

1 hour ago, Maripop said:

Food poisoning and scurvy could be interesting if cooking were to be more in depth

Food poisoning maybe, if one insists on eating spoiled food. Lack of fruit in one's diet is already punished by missing out on the extra health from that nutrition. The main issue I see with both is that they're easily avoided; the average player is likely to eat a balanced diet and likely to avoid rancid food, so they'll likely never suffer the effects of those diseases unless they deliberately sabotage themselves.

1 hour ago, Maripop said:

getting screwed over because you rolled a 1/100 die and hit the mark, and there's just nothing you could've done.

The main reason I don't think diseases should be added. It's not fun to get hit with a penalty you had no chance to prevent. And as I mentioned previously, the more common, less deadly diseases are easy enough to avoid just through basic gameplay that players aren't likely to deal with them at all.

2 hours ago, Maripop said:

but diseases should be kept to livestock

Again, I've got to disagree here. Livestock takes a long time to domesticate, and there are few things worse than checking on them and finding out that all your hard work has been undone by an ill-placed predator or unlucky lightning strike. If more challenge is needed here, then I would instead opt for making livestock lose some of their condition if you don't feed them for a very long time(several weeks/months).

2 hours ago, Maripop said:

or be able to be ticked on or off at world creation at the very most.

If diseases were added, this would probably need to be a feature. But I still maintain diseases are best left to the realm of mods, much like thirst.

[Maripop]

10 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Again, I've got to disagree here. Livestock takes a long time to domesticate, and there are few things worse than checking on them and finding out that all your hard work has been undone by an ill-placed predator or unlucky lightning strike. If more challenge is needed here, then I would instead opt for making livestock lose some of their condition if you don't feed them for a very long time(several weeks/months).

My idea with this here was animals could get diseases if they're too packed in and not fed or unable to eat, say keeping sheep in a pen with stone floor and not giving them food.
Animals don't really tend to get diseases in reality if they're not in huge numbers, so i feel like this could be encouragement to practice more realistic husbandry, rather than pure rng.
I don't want to do math since this likely won't go anywhere, but some random odd after you reach a certain density of animals that one will get sick, then the sick ones aren't counted as part of the whole, so it spreads less the more there are, and you're always left with a healthy population, like a soft cap on the number of animals you can have in one spot.
Move them around more or feed them or fix whatever the issue was and they get better, just something simple that wouldn't destroy most computers.

[MassiveHobo]

I wasn't really asking for super hardcore and specific diseases that would outright kill you, just vague lingering ones that apply debuffs (10-30%) to the player that one could ignore and still play the game with.