Any chance of giving lit torches a grace timer to avoid extinguishing them in water (mousewheel scrolling plea)

[LoveWyrm]

Would be real nice to have. No way my character would actually dunk the torch while consciously selecting a target item...

That's just punishing me not wanting to reach for hotkeys all the time ...

Thus, I would like to ask for a short grace timer for torches to not get snuffed by water. Maybe 250ms or something. Half a second seems a bit long to ask for.

 

I realize that this could technically be exploited to see underwater by scrolling the scrollwheel repeatedly, but that can be fixed with an accumulated maximum value that decays over the course of like 5-10 seconds.

 

Basically, (pseudocode)

if torch is out in the water for less than 250ms, don't snuff it out

and add torch water exposure timer to grand total torch in water timer

if grand total torch in water timer greater than 5000ms, snuff all torches until 5000ms have passed, resetting the grace system

, otherwise decay it every 5000ms (so in total 10seconds)

 

if the torch is out for more than 250ms, snuff it

 

I really just wanna scroll through the hotbar in the water ... lol, and I forgot to add the natural decay (or else it doesn't make much sense)

 

Of course this cannot really be copied to code verbatim, it's probably way too naive an implementation even in pseudocode, but you know? Would be nice to be able to scroll.

Edited April 30, 2025 by LoveWyrm

[Dilan Rona]

Use an oil lamp instead. Will be better in the event you do get dunked under water. @LoveWyrm

Edited May 1, 2025 by Dilan Rona

[LoveWyrm]

10 hours ago, Dilan Rona said:

Use an oil lamp instead. Will be better in the event you do get dunked under water. @LoveWyrm

I know about oil lamps, my plea is for 'accessiblity' purposes. The contrived timer thing maybe detracted from it, but the point is.

 

If I have a torch in my hotbar, and I scroll through the hotbar, which is a base game feature (although I know that the base game is technically a a mod for the engine)...

Then I should not be punished for using the scroll wheel to scroll through the hotbar which supports scrolling, just to select and item.

 

I want the scrollwheel to go fro A to B, A is starting position in the hotbar, B is the end position with the desired item to be selected by scrolling.

If a lit torch is in a slot 'along the way' then it will get insta-snuffed in water...when I just wanted to select an item via scrolling, I didn't actually want my character to take out an item in his hand to have it extinguished, at least not if I scroll quickly...

 

Hence a 'grace' period where if the torch is put away quick enough, it won't go out. Because again, my intent is not to pull out the torch when i scroll PAST the torch (in m mind/intention anyway)

Really sucks swiming (one hand is on wasd) The other on mouse (to look around) and then having to stretch/bend fingers past a torch that is otherwise conveniently placed just to not get it snuffed...

If I jump into the water with the torch already out, it should totally get put out, but not while scrolling? lol... ergonomy and all that...

 

Edit:
Hecc...maybe torches won't even emit light while in water...just don't put em out if they're only out for like a fraction of a second ;-;

That would fix the 'exploit' without any decay timer shenanigans.

Just "if player waterlogged and torch is pulled out, don't emit light on torch, wait 250ms, if still out, play snuff sound and snuff it for good"

Edited May 1, 2025 by LoveWyrm

[Obison]

No offence but fire not going out when dunked in water seems a bit odd of a request and idea.. Especially for a game so focused on being very realistic. You also shouldnt have a torch for very long, getting to oil lamps should be happening for anyone pretty quickly.

[LoveWyrm]

I just don't want them to go out while scrolling over them. Not have them never go out in the water.

 

Imagine a pickaxe on slot 1, a torch on slot 2, and a falx on slot 3... you're swimming in the water, during daylight with your pickaxe out. Then you see something you wanna chop with your falx, but you use the scroll wheel.

Should the torch REALLY ...really go out if the selection of the torch is not intended, but just a side effect of the scrolling?

Meaning, should it really go out if you scroll past it for 100milliseconds or less just because you want to use the scroll wheel instead of hot keys?

I don't think so...and the torch is the only item that does it. And they all go out, not just the first one. And realism..well they burn forever in your pack, that's not realistic.

 

What I want is an INTERFACE patch, not a gameplay one. Torches can, if need be, disabled as light sources for 100-200ms upon pulling them out for all I care so scrolling through them isn't an exploit.

I just dont want them to go out and have to do some stupid ritual to get them going again, it's not even difficult, just some sticks and a bit of hay and then having to rub it and then having to throw that firestarter away or store it or whatever just cause the torch was out in the water for a fraction of a second while scrolling.

C'mon...that is, as the cool kids once said..w.hack.

[Never Jhonsen]

On 5/1/2025 at 5:59 AM, LoveWyrm said:

[M]y plea is for 'accessiblity' purposes.

You are correct about this

Firstly, there are some "Alternatives" I'm going to address.

9 minutes ago, LoveWyrm said:

Imagine a pickaxe on slot 1, a torch on slot 2, and a falx on slot 3... you're swimming in the water, during daylight with your pickaxe out. Then you see something you wanna chop with your falx, but you use the scroll wheel.

One could argue "Just scroll the other way, from 1 to 10 and then down to 3 lol". Another argument could be "haha just put your torch in your bag and off the hot bar". And the third argument you already mentioned, and that's "Just use the number keys. duh".

However, you said a key word that really rings, and that's "Accessibility".

Not everyone has 100% perfect movement, and some things are just easier than others. A scroll wheel only requires the movement of one finger, while the number keys require a whole had motion (Who has their hand resting on WARS and all 10 number keys?), as well as the inventory option. Look, I personally hate inventory management with a mouse. I am ALWAYS using the SHIFT key, as well as the number keys, to move items around. The less I travel with the mouse the happier my wrists are. And yet, I wouldn't consider myself disabled; a lot of people have it worse. Not only that, but some people have it rough enough to have special devices that mimic a standard QWERTY board and 3 button mouse.

Now, I do know this game's dev team is small, and doesn't have a budget to hire on a person focused on accessibility gameplay. But, I do agree with your point, in that scrolling through your hotbar shouldn't instantly put out your torch; If that's the case, then opening your inventory whilst underwater should also put your torches out, as you're opening those bags underwater. And any powders should dissolve away in the water, like ground salt, or flour turning into raw dough. Same logic.

There should be a small grace timer whilst scrolling through your hotbar.

 

[Thorfinn]

On 5/4/2025 at 3:50 PM, LoveWyrm said:

Imagine a pickaxe on slot 1, a torch on slot 2, and a falx on slot 3.

So don't do that? Put torch in 6 or 7, common tools on the low end of the hotbar, healing on the top end, 

Despite best intentions, though, I just consider torches on the hotbar as expendable.  When I get to  land, I'll place a torch from inventory, relght the extinguished torch, recover the placed torch, and hit the road. An extinguished torch is just not enough of a penalty to make me remember to scroll the right way.

I get that it's a UI thing, but so is so much else. My typical -- intending to creep up to the edge of a hole in the ground, and instead fatfinger Q, throwing my lantern to the bottom of the chasm.

[LoveWyrm]

Yeah I keep a backup torch in the inventory ...but I shouldn't have to do that. Maybe the devs can just do a test where they have one patch where torches simply don't work in water but also don't go out in water, their light is just reduced to zero...

 

I know the crude door seems to have been intended to break and it not breaking was a bug, but ...I think that was also a good user test. Maybe try the torch thing too.

 

The game isn't about survival anymore anyway. I mean 'technically' it is, but if death is part and parcel with respawn points, then it's not pure survival. Cause dying is not surviving, it's the opposite, yet you get to keep playing, and the ever increasing enemy roster only adds to it.

At some point the dangers will be too many for 100% safe play to be fun, etc... so ...

Why not give magical unsnuffable in water torches a try, developers?

 

They're sooooOOoOOOOOOoooOO trivial to make after all, it really is just a contrivance.

-scroll- oh whats that? your torch was in the water for an attosecond while you moved past it with the mouse wheel? DELETED!

 

P.S.:

>fatfingering the lantern

I raged preetty hard the other day throwing away some shears due to a shiver jumpscare out of a hole nearby. Lol....

Made me change the bind to shift q...

What is it with Q... zomboid it administers 'the cure' in terraria and the other block game it throws items away.

Tsk...

Edited May 6, 2025 by LoveWyrm

[Thorfinn]

On 5/6/2025 at 1:12 PM, LoveWyrm said:

Made me change the bind to shift q...

I vacillate between "Delete" so I can't possibly keymash it, and "t" since I almost never have anything useful to say, since even in games where coordinates are enabled, I don't use them. If someone wants to know where the halite is, he has to either follow me, or use my orientation scheme, i.e., "NE by E to chert cliffs, due N to the lake, circle to the west edge of the lake, go NW until you can no longer see the granite mountains north of the lake, W to sandstone, follow the edge of the sandstone roughly NW until you see sandstone plateau, follow it west until it turns south, and there it is. You can't miss it."

[Never Jhonsen]

On 5/6/2025 at 2:12 PM, LoveWyrm said:

Made me change the bind to shift q...

I've always had it as Z for me, and CTRL+Z to throw everything away. And then with Inventory being moved from E to I, that allows the W key to be free on the sides to avoid an incorrect action when trying to panic run. I started that years ago with that other block game, and just kept it up with this one  

Edited May 8, 2025 by Never Jhonsen
CTRL not SHIFT

[Bumber]

Torches should just be skipped over if scrolling inventory. Deliberately selecting a slot should allow you to extinguish.

(I question why we're allowed to store burning torches with our belongings to begin with, however.)

[Facethief]

9 hours ago, Bumber said:

Torches should just be skipped over if scrolling inventory. Deliberately selecting a slot should allow you to extinguish.

(I question why we're allowed to store burning torches with our belongings to begin with, however.)

Please no.

[LoveWyrm]

yeah, I also don't want the torches to be skipped, because the mouse wheel scroll thing is supposed to be (I hope) an alternate way of selecting items in the hotbar, other than using the keys for it.

It's just, due to its sequential nature, sometimes you just have the torch there, and I just don't want it to be snuffed out because my character somehow materialized it for a fraction of a second while in water.

 

That said, it is a bit strange that torches burn out after 3 days, unless stored in a wicker basket ^^

[Morndenkainen]

I mean, it's a bit odd already that you can put a burning torch in your backpack, and it won't go out, even if you go underwater...

[Teh Pizza Lady]

The grace period really isn’t necessary, not even for accessibility. Just scroll the other direction. And before anyone says, “But Traugdor, it’s so far to scroll from slot 1 to slot 3 by going the other way!” -- it’s really not. It’s a minimal effort. Or, if sequential scrolling (slot 1 to slot 2 to slot 3, no matter what) is your thing, just put your torch in slot 10. Problem solved. Honestly, it’s just a matter of making the conscious choice to not scroll past your torch while underwater. If you’re still struggling with controlling yourself while playing a video game, maybe a few extinguished torches will help you figure things out. Until then, happy relighting!

[Bumber]

On 5/14/2025 at 3:19 PM, LoveWyrm said:

yeah, I also don't want the torches to be skipped, because the mouse wheel scroll thing is supposed to be (I hope) an alternate way of selecting items in the hotbar, other than using the keys for it.

Why do you want to select a torch when doing so would cause it to be extinguished?

Only reason I can think of is just to dispose of it to pick up another item. Doing so should be as deliberate as tossing an item from your bags. That means selecting the specific slot or using your mouse cursor.

2 hours ago, traugdor said:

The grace period really isn’t necessary, not even for accessibility. Just scroll the other direction.

What if you forget whether scrolling up sends you right or left? Games are inconsistent about this, so muscle memory can be unreliable. The UI shouldn't be antagonistic.

[PrismaticaDev]

Any amount of "but my realism" gets thrown out the window when you consider you can have 50 flaming torches stored inside a fabric sack whilst walking along the bottom of the ocean.

Alternatively, when you consider that the items TELEPORT from your hot-bar into your hand, they would create a small vacuum which would prevent the water from saturating and extinguishing the torch for approximately 250ms. So for maximum realism, there should definitely be a small grace period so you can scroll OVER the torches. I would also recommend that the torch doesn't emit light at all when underwater, or add a small delay to the light emission to prevent cheesing (scrolling over the torch repeatedly to flash light underwater in the early game)

 

Either way, it's a no-brainer.

[Facethief]

11 hours ago, Bumber said:

Why do you want to select a torch when doing so would cause it to be extinguished?

Only reason I can think of is just to dispose of it to pick up another item. Doing so should be as deliberate as tossing an item from your bags. That means selecting the specific slot or using your mouse cursor.

I think they mean that they use the scrollwheel above water to select torches and that they want to be able to use it for other things while under the water. They do not want to dunk their torches while at the bottom of a lake.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

12 hours ago, Bumber said:

What if you forget whether scrolling up sends you right or left?

Then don't do that. It's a conscious choice not to learn what things do in a game. Don't make that choice.

[Facethief]

36 minutes ago, traugdor said:

Then don't do that. It's a conscious choice not to learn what things do in a game. Don't make that choice.

Unless you have alzheimers or something.

[LoveWyrm]

I don't think I can simplify my wish any further and @Never Jhonsen  and @PrismaticaDev pretty much covered the rest.

If your torches don't get instantly put out if you check your inventory (backpacks) and move things around there (you can literally put the torches into your cursor 'hand') and it won't go out.

Then a quick scroll, meaning, no intent to actually select it, just sequentially moving over the torch in your hotbar, should not instantly snuff the torch out, either.

 

No workarounds accepted, not "scroll the other way" nothing.

It's a discrepancy in the ingame interface between player controlling the game, and items in the game and the inventory.

Again, in fact, at this point I'd go as far as never making the torch go out while held, and simply not functioning in a water situation where it would get put out. Mostly for simplicity sake, but also a bit of spite because ...how many times did I have to explain this now? Three times at least. Apply yourselves. Furthermore, it's a suggestion toward the developers, noone else.

[Bumber]

On 5/17/2025 at 4:53 AM, Facethief said:

I think they mean that they use the scrollwheel above water to select torches and that they want to be able to use it for other things while under the water. They do not want to dunk their torches while at the bottom of a lake.

It should only skip over when doing so would extinguish the torch. I guess I forgot to make that clear.

On 5/17/2025 at 5:09 AM, traugdor said:

Then don't do that. It's a conscious choice not to learn what things do in a game. Don't make that choice.

Muscle memory isn't a conscious choice. That's literally in the definition of the term.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

On 5/19/2025 at 4:31 PM, Bumber said:

Muscle memory isn't a conscious choice.

retraining your muscle memory is tho...