Farming overhaul!

[LadyWYT]

59 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

@Rudometkin, I remembered you started a YouTube series some time ago, and announced it here, and, while I only watched the first couple, because it was plain you were a novice, I could tell you were quite good at gameplay mechanics, even though you understood almost nothing of the game itself. My guess is you've played that other game quite a little.

Yeah I was trying to be nice and not go there. I watched the first few episodes of his series after he made that funny wolf post on the forum a while back. It had its entertaining moments, and it's cute watching new players figure out the game. 

1 hour ago, Thorfinn said:

But I saw you have kept it going, like as recently as yesterday. I skipped to the last few episodes to see your current gameplay. I wanted to know what it was that has you so fired up about farming.

It is August, I think it's still year 1, or at least you don't appear to have copper yet, you have a small farm, maybe 15 plots on top of a hill, in low fertility soil, with no irrigation, and, unless I'm mistaken, you aren't even fertilizing. I'm not saying you can't have ideas, but how about trying out how the game actually works before proposing radical changes? Tyron is not a crappy game designer, and you are selling him way short by not even giving his game a fair evaluation before crapping on it.

I've admittedly been curious about that, given the arguments he's been making. I suppose that's the handy part, and a drawback of posting on social media--it leaves a paper trail for others to follow.

Personally, I've nothing against inexperienced players presenting their suggestions. However, it's also not unusual for many of those suggestions to be quite flawed, especially in relation to other parts of the game, which is to be expected from inexperience. As I've said before, where it gets aggravating is when questions and concerns about the suggestions get brushed aside with a simple "you're wrong, you don't know what you're talking, it'll just work and be fun before I said so!" argument, instead of an explanation of how such a thing could work and how the concerns would just be addressed.

13 minutes ago, Rudometkin said:

That wilderness survival world resets all of my progress whenever I die, and it's footage of my first world.

Keeping in mind that Wilderness Survival is the "hardcore" preset, same as Exploration is the "easy". The Standard version is the developer's intended difficulty, and as a result that's the metric I use when making assessments about suggestions. That, and my own experience with the game itself, and other ideas that others have tried via mods. Sometimes an idea works, and sometimes it only sounds fun on paper but isn't fun in practice.

 

7 hours ago, Rudometkin said:

So I can see some of you guys don't like how I stood my ground and defended my position. I am thought to be aggressively dismissive, repeating lines ad infinitum, abrasive.

Well if those things are true, then it is fair to point out that I am clearly not the only one here being "aggressively dismissive, repeating lines ad infinitum, abrasive".

I still need to catch up on some of the later posts. But @Thorfinn, I'm sorry I made you feel threatened when I suggested "my game-design oriented mind", as if I am supposed to be superior to others. I believe my mind happens to be fairly oriented toward game design, and mentioned it as part of support to defend my suggestion (support for Felix's suggestion) that is arguably unfairly under attack.

I understand being friends, one family with this shared interest, is better than being enemies. I would rather find common ground with each other than us argue with frustration.

I hope you understand that I am not intending to attack you as people, just some of your ideas. With that said, it is good we challenge each other.

I appreciate Thorfinn, LadyWYT, and especially Enjen for seeing my point of view fairly. I think I enjoy the community as much as I enjoy the game.

Now that I am done giving out virtual lollipops, I want to dive deeper into the discussion where I left off. For the sake of time, I will leave many things unsaid, so that not every word is replied to.

With all due respect my man, I believe you when you say you're passionate about the game and want to see it improve. You wouldn't be here making suggestions or having fun with it on YouTube if you weren't. And not everyone has fun in the same way, and that's okay.

But I honestly don't believe that you want to be friends or hold a discussion to actually find common ground. Your actions haven't backed up your words in that regard, since you've not done anything except dismiss any opposing viewpoints as "irrelevant" because "we don't know what we're talking about, we're just stubborn old veterans chasing people away" and "you have a game-design oriented brain, so you're automatically right". Maybe that's not what you meant to say, but if it wasn't I would recommend taking a look at word and phrasing choices, as that's how you're coming across. Otherwise, I will note that you're free to defend your points by simply ignoring every counterpoint and labeling it as "irrelevant", but that destroys your case more than supports it.

In any case, I'm glad you're having fun with the game. Hopefully you continue to do so. I don't have anything else to add regarding the rest of your post, since everything I've said up until now has essentially been ignored.

[Rudometkin]

23 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

Why should lightning death be a rare thing? What is "uncompromising" about that?

But seriously, give Crops V2 a whirl. See if it adds to your fun. 

The uncompromising part about rare lightning death is that it kills you.

It has a good balance that way. Lightning death doesn't have to be a rare thing. We could make some superstorms where lightning death is more common.

 

22 hours ago, Facethief said:

You know what? I’m sick of this. See you on a less argumentative forum page.

OK. Some people get sick of hashing out in-depth game ideas with others for longer than a forum page. That's ok and I understand it. I do hope to see you around in a less argumentative forum page, friend.

 

20 hours ago, Enjen said:

Hey everyone I've read through the posts and frankly agree with @Rudometkin. He is doing exactly what this forum was meant for-- Suggesting.

Even though nobody asked for it, in my opinion, whether or not a feature is for everyone is not really what determines a gameplay feature? We cannot underestimate the average gamer/player. Many people play this game for many different reasons with different playstyles. While I see both sides of the argument (which it did spiral into an argument at the end instead of staying as a debate how it started out) its not fair to say "Just make a mod". OP posted an idea and while I think criticism to any idea brings forth innovation and proper change, he was met with "it wont work, people wont like it"

The people that mod are much fewer in number than people who play base game im sure. I dont have exact numbers but I can imagine how many people buy the game and never participate in the forums or the modding community.

On another note, having suggestions like this one breeds more ideas. A farming overhaul? Cool! Make the system more complex, thats awesome. What if someone else thinks "Whoah thats actually a cool idea, im not much of a farmer but LOVE making weapons, why don't I come up with an idea for a more complex weapons/blacksmithing overhaul system to suggest it!"

By shutting down suggestions like this so harshly, it is going to make it very difficult for people to want to share their ideas. 

Everyone here is in support of Vintage Story and has some level of passion for it. We just like it for different reasons and thats OK

Thank you for this.

This is the balance we had been needing here. I highly value your post here, it grounds the entire thread out. You gave me more hope that the community here is fair.

[Thorfinn]

Look, I'll just drop it, @Rudometkin. I'm sorry you took offense.

But let me ask you: How do you know whether your idea is better than the current system if you don't even understand the current system?

[Rudometkin]

21 hours ago, Enjen said:

Even during this discussion in between the back and forth you took Spontaneous Crop Death turned it into Plant Diseases which I think is a fantastic idea! It's a risk that could happen but preventable if you take care of your crops. Innovation. If an idea doesn't land exactly as is, modify it. Continue to improve. Vintage Story is in its early stages and still can be anything!

Never stop the conversations. Never stop the ideas. We are one community.

Thank you for this. Also, I just made a more in-depth farming suggestion in a reply to Lady. I could work on it more and post my own thread about it.

Unfortunately Lady and Thorfinn are shifting toward attacking the person and not the idea. This does discourage ideas.

In debate, this is called an ad hominem. It's an informal logical fallacy. The general idea is, "Rudometkin's idea is invalid, because he is still a novice at Vintage Story". It could be that I'm a novice, but understand enough to know this idea is genius for Vintage Story. What if Tyron himself showed up and agreed that the idea I'm supporting is perfect for Vintage Story? Are they going to all of a sudden support the idea on the basis Tyron must know the game better than them?

If your experience in the game is relevant to the validity of your idea, then we should dismiss all of the ideas novices make, and worship all of the ideas Tyron supports. Since he ought to have the most experience, having written the source code.

But that's not logical. We should address the idea, and not shoot ideas down just because they are made by people who we think don't understand the relevant functions of the game.

Earlier I suggested they could go ahead and dismiss what I said based on me being a novice. I take that back. My support for this idea still stands strong regardless of how inexperienced they think I am.

Edited June 30, 2025 by Rudometkin

[Teh Pizza Lady]

21 hours ago, Enjen said:

its not fair to say "Just make a mod".

it's completely fair to say that because not everyone wants the idea. Period. That much is evident in this thread.

"I want this in my game" does not easily translate into "everyone should have this in their game". That is why people are saying "Make it into a mod then!"

[Rudometkin]

11 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

Look, I'll just drop it, @Rudometkin. I'm sorry you took offense.

Ah, so you're sorry I took offense.

As in, perhaps I shouldn't have taken offense when you slandered me as "crapping on Vintage Story.

Instead of, "I'm sorry I baselessly accused you of crapping on Vintage Story".

 

11 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

But let me ask you: How do you know whether your idea is better than the current system if you don't even understand the current system?

First establish whether I understand the current relevant systems before asking a question contingent on whether I understand them.

I know you think I don't understand the current system. I'm confident I understand enough for it to be relevant.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

7 minutes ago, Rudometkin said:

Thank you for this. Also, I just made a more in-depth farming suggestion in a reply to Lady. I could work on it more and post my own thread about it.

Unfortunately Lady and Thorfinn are shifting toward attacking the person and not the idea. This does discourage ideas.

In debate, this is called an ad hominem. It's an informal logical fallacy. The general idea is, "Rudometkin's idea is invalid, because he is still a novice at Vintage Story". It could be that I'm a novice, but understand enough to know this idea is genius for Vintage Story. What if Tyron himself showed up and agreed that the idea I'm supporting is perfect for Vintage Story? Are they going to all of a sudden support the idea on the basis Tyron must know the game better than them?

If your experience in the game is relevant to the validity of your idea, then we should dismiss all of the ideas novices make, and worship all of the ideas Tyron supports. Since he ought to have the most experience, having written the source code.

But that's not logical. We should address the idea, and not shoot ideas down just because they are made by people who we think don't understand the relevant functions of the game.

Earlier I suggested they could go ahead and dismiss what I said based on me being a novice. I take that back. My support for this idea still stands strong regardless of how inexperienced they think I am.

I know LadyWYT personally... I have no idea who this Thorfinn dude is. He keeps appearing on posts and is probably one of the most knowledgeable people on this game aside from the members of the dev team. He posts often enough that I feel like I can kind of get a bead on his personality however. I would say that neither of them are attacking *you*. They're attacking your knowledge of the game that you're suggesting be altered permanently to fit your vision of the game. Your vision that is, from what I can tell, rather limited because the experience behind it is also limited. It doesn't make your ideas less valid, but it gives them less weight. 

My advice to you: Finish Chapter 2 and see if you still like this idea or if it makes you want to quit the game. Because honestly if this idea were implemented into the base game, I would probably quit playing until someone modded it out. Why? Tedium. I don't much enjoy TOBG because of it's tedium. I don't enjoy farming in MMORPGs because of the tedium of the grind. Some games introduce it in a fun way that's relevant to the story. Other games just say, "You're playing a MMO game. You will grind. You will like it. Taking shortcuts will be punished harshly." I don't want that kind of gameplay in Vintage Story! Neither does LadyWYT or Thorfinn, two of the most prominent posters on this forum. You should listen to their advice and criticism. Don't take it personally, take it as veterans protecting the game for new players who just want to experience what makes Vintage Story better than other games.

[Facethief]

29 minutes ago, Rudometkin said:

OK. Some people get sick of hashing out in-depth game ideas with others for longer than a forum page. That's ok and I understand it. I do hope to see you around in a less argumentative forum page, friend.

Shame on you for quoting me. I take the role of a(n) occasionally reacting observer now. I do not want to talk anymore.

 

[Teh Pizza Lady]

8 minutes ago, Rudometkin said:

Ah, so you're sorry I took offense.

As in, perhaps I shouldn't have taken offense when you slandered me as "crapping on Vintage Story.

Instead of, "I'm sorry I baselessly accused you of crapping on Vintage Story".

Actually, you know what? I should have read your smarmy reply before posting. I take it all back. You're kind of a pill and I understand why they were criticizing you personally now. You have no right to demand that someone apologizes to you in a certain way. That is emotional abuse and it is not tolerated here.

[Rudometkin]

4 minutes ago, traugdor said:

Actually, you know what? I should have read your smarmy reply before posting. I take it all back. You're kind of a pill and I understand why they were criticizing you personally now. You have no right to demand that someone apologizes to you in a certain way. That is emotional abuse and it is not tolerated here.

I still have posts to catch up on. But this one is a bizarre take.

Because I didn't demand Thorfinn to apologize in a certain way in that post you quoted.

I was making an observation of what Thorfinn was apologizing for.

So, I am happy to reassure you that I was not emotionally abusing Thorfinn by way of demand there.

---------

The ironic part is, I did demand (an insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right) Thorfinn to apologize in a certain way earlier. And I do have that right. Because when someone treats a member unfairly in this community, we all have the duty to stand and encourage fairness among each other.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

I wasn't demanding he apologize in a certain way.

I was demanding he apologize in a certain way.

certified wolf bait

[Teh Pizza Lady]

6 minutes ago, Rudometkin said:

And I do have that right. Because when someone treats a member unfairly in this community, we all have the duty to stand and encourage fairness among each other.

The ironic part is, you probably weren't looking for an apology to begin with if you thought you had a right to demand the language in which it was made. You cited community fairness and then you were unfair to someone in the community. When someone treats a member unfairly in this community, we all have the duty to stand and encourage fairness among each other whydoesthissoundfamiliar

[Rudometkin]

2 minutes ago, traugdor said:

I wasn't demanding he apologize in a certain way.

I was demanding he apologize in a certain way.

certified wolf bait

Now you are acting as if there are not multiple posts in this thread. In the one you quoted, I was not demanding. In an earlier one, I was.

This seems to be a oversimplified silly trick to make me look like I'm contradicting myself, when in reality I am being coherent and fair about the situation.  

[Teh Pizza Lady]

1 minute ago, Rudometkin said:

This seems to be a oversimplified silly trick to make me look like I'm contradicting myself

Oh you're giving me credit for that?? oh you..... stahp it...

[Rudometkin]

20 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

All due respect, that is NOT what he's doing.

Of course it is. I am suggesting an idea here, and defending it, and also doing my part in reinforcing fairness.

But one must question the weight of your words, when you flat out claim that I'm "NOT!" making a suggestion here, when the majority of this thread's content is based on some things I suggested (and supported).

I want to take you seriously when I read your messages around this community. But when you come on here saying I'm not here suggesting, that has a tendency of making people question your judgement in general!

 

20 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

He long ago left off from Suggesting, to the point he became aggressively dismissive of others. "It's supposed to be uncompromising!" repeated ad infinitum.

I did not repeat the phrase, "it's supposed to be uncompromising" again and again in the same way; forever.

Ad infinitum: again and again in the same way; forever.

Of course you are exaggerating. So, how much of your messages here have been mere exaggeration?

Were you exaggerating when you said our suggestion would be tedious?

Were you exaggerating when you concluded I do not understand farming in this game?

Were you exaggerating when you said I'm "crapping on Vintage Story"?

How much of your criticism of our suggestion has been fair?

 

20 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

He already said he will use a mod, but he wants it in vanilla. Others who disagree can go screw.

These are your words, not mine. Are you exaggerating?

 

20 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

I even made the effort to recommend a mod that, I think, did more or less everything he was asking for, and he's asserted his own game design bona fides, as in, "I thought about farming mechanics, and the occasional need to leave the main base for long periods of time, and determined with my game-design oriented mind that these farming mechanics can be implemented for the betterment of the game." Implying that his "game-design oriented mind" is superior to others', and has been dismissive of anyone who disagrees.

You say I am implying this. But are you just exaggerating here?

Thank you.

I will say I enjoy discussing these suggestions, and I hope everyone can see this discussion deserves to continue and turn for the better from here on out.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

I think the best point against the whole "crops should die if you're gone from  your base" thing being a part of vanilla is that the game *encourages* exploration and going out away from your home base. Need to make steel? The materials for those refractory bricks aren't going to bring themselves home... Heck, treasure hunter traders will literally send you ***thousands*** of blocks away from spawn in search of story locations and the game is designed this way to prevent you from accidentally stumbling upon it as you explore... I wonder why they would account for player exploration if the game's design team didn't want people exploring? It just doesn't make sense. The idea is a good one, but it's better suited for a mod or multiplayer gameplay with a dedicated camp mom to oversee everything, tend to the crops, etc while everyone else is off actually enjoying the game.

the subtext here is that being forced to stay at the base camp and never explore goes against the game's design and is NOT fun.

[Enjen]

I'd like to start off by saying @Rudometkin I appreciate how fleshed out your responses are. They touch on many points and question the objections directly. You're replies are a bit abrasive, although at this point with how directly @LadyWYT and @Thorfinn (more so Thorfinn than LadyWYT) are attacking you and your experience in the game directly instead of your idea and debating that, I feel that abrasiveness is warranted... and still I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong) have not mentioned their character or your opinion of them..

4 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

I remembered you started a YouTube series some time ago, and announced it here

^ I understand you bring up his YouTube channel to question his experience in the game, but even still what does his experience have to do with the idea (that he didn't come up with mind you, he only supported it and expanded on it as time progressed) that is being suggested?

Someone can see a mechanic and be sparked with inspiration and want to share their idea. With how fiercely it's being shot down rather than wondering "How could this work if it were implemented in the base game." It's so negative and not at all inclusive. I may be in the camp that if this complex system farming overhaul were in the game as is I'd be afraid of it, However  that will not stop me from entertaining and toying with the idea of such a cool suggestion! Let's talk about it! Let's talk about what works and doesn't work how we were in the beginning and stick to that. At some point I feel it got personal, and it seems to have started from the point when Rudometkin was questioning LadyWYT's criticisms. It's okay to question and break down an idea into its key parts. It keeps the conversation going and refines the best parts of it. 

4 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

I'm not saying you can't have ideas, but how about trying out how the game actually works before proposing radical changes? Tyron is not a crappy game designer, and you are selling him way short by not even giving his game a fair evaluation before crapping on it.

^ I don't recall Rudometkin question Tyron's ability as a game designer. I'd like to ask, is every overhaul suggestion a question to his developer mind? Of course, not that's ridiculous and I have no clue where you got this notion from. This is what I mean, where is this negativity coming from??

2 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Personally, I've nothing against inexperienced players presenting their suggestions. However, it's also not unusual for many of those suggestions to be quite flawed, especially in relation to other parts of the game, which is to be expected from inexperience. As I've said before, where it gets aggravating is when questions and concerns about the suggestions get brushed aside with a simple "you're wrong, you don't know what you're talking, it'll just work and be fun before I said so!" argument, instead of an explanation of how such a thing could work and how the concerns would just be addressed.

^ LadyWYT, I'd like to preface I do have a respect for your responses and your activity around the forum, but my opinion of you or anyone else here is irrelevant to the discussion.

It itsn't unusual at all for suggestions to be flawed. I think when cool ideas are shared, they have many flaws or didn't consider exact pain points or how it would affect other systems. That's where the discussion comes in. I do believe Rudometkin addressed your concerns quite directly and met them with counter questions. Even just this morning with his first reply of the day. The inverse of what you are saying could also be true. You could suggest how a certain part of the idea could work even within the same message that you are breaking it down (which you did do together, turning Spontaneous Crop Death into a Plant Diseases Mechanic).

2 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Sometimes an idea works, and sometimes it only sounds fun on paper but isn't fun in practice.

^ Then let's have fun with it on paper! Haha, let's talk about how it could work and how it could not work. Which the forum did start off as such,

2 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

But I honestly don't believe that you want to be friends or hold a discussion to actually find common ground.

^ On the contrary. I believe it's you and Thorfinn that refuse to find common ground, at least now. 

2 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

Look, I'll just drop it, @Rudometkin. I'm sorry you took offense.

9 hours ago, Rudometkin said:

I still need to catch up on some of the later posts. But @Thorfinn, I'm sorry I made you feel threatened when I suggested "my game-design oriented mind", as if I am supposed to be superior to others. I believe my mind happens to be fairly oriented toward game design, and mentioned it as part of support to defend my suggestion (support for Felix's suggestion) that is arguably unfairly under attack.

^ There is a stark difference in how you apologized and how Rudometkin apologized earlier in the thread.

2 hours ago, Rudometkin said:

Unfortunately Lady and Thorfinn are shifting toward attacking the person and not the idea. This does discourage ideas.

^ Yes! and that is exactly my qualm with this whole exchange. At some point it got personal and now the suggestion that OP made is buried at the beginning. There is nothing wrong with criticism, I encourage it but be ready for some fight back! Get ready for some debate. Have an open mind and stick to the idea at hand.

2 hours ago, traugdor said:

it's completely fair to say that because not everyone wants the idea. Period. That much is evident in this thread.

"I want this in my game" does not easily translate into "everyone should have this in their game". That is why people are saying "Make it into a mod then!"

^ That is true, just in this thread alone there are more people against it than for it, myself included as I mentioned before. My issue is just the straight dismissal of it and the audacity to say "welp, make a mod for it" rather than entertaining the idea and possibly help fleshing it out. Why don't YOU want this in the game? What part of it turns you away from it specifically. Then the one suggesting it can say "Okay well maybe we can tweak the idea this way"
You get what I'm saying?

1 hour ago, traugdor said:

Your vision that is, from what I can tell, rather limited because the experience behind it is also limited. It doesn't make your ideas less valid, but it gives them less weight. 

1 hour ago, traugdor said:

You should listen to their advice and criticism. Don't take it personally, take it as veterans protecting the game for new players who just want to experience what makes Vintage Story better than other games.

^ What makes Vintage Story better than other games is it's complexity and slow-paced mechanics. What is truly the matter with suggesting a more complex system in an already complex game? and l

ike you said a Limited experience doesn't make an idea less valid. I don't know what you mean by "gives them less weight", as the idea is only as heavy as it's proposed I suppose? He defends his claims and questions the critiques.

57 minutes ago, traugdor said:

I think the best point against the whole "crops should die if you're gone from  your base" thing being a part of vanilla is that the game *encourages* exploration and going out away from your home base. Need to make steel? The materials for those refractory bricks aren't going to bring themselves home... Heck, treasure hunter traders will literally send you ***thousands*** of blocks away from spawn in search of story locations and the game is designed this way to prevent you from accidentally stumbling upon it as you explore... I wonder why they would account for player exploration if the game's design team didn't want people exploring? It just doesn't make sense. The idea is a good one, but it's better suited for a mod or multiplayer gameplay with a dedicated camp mom to oversee everything, tend to the crops, etc while everyone else is off actually enjoying the game.

the subtext here is that being forced to stay at the base camp and never explore goes against the game's design and is NOT fun.

^ The idea doesn't discourage exploration. It would change how much you had to respect and care for your farm that's for sure and I agree that the idea as is needs work if it were to be implemented, that's what the discussion is for. It'd need to be balanced in a way where it can be utilized at all levels of progression. There isn't inherently anything wrong with wanting more from a system.
In your subtext you forgot to mention that it is "NOT fun to me" May be sharing a bit too much here but I actually enjoy being base mom. My wife and sibling are more the type to go explore and fight and get into all sorts of danger. Just an example of people having different playstyles. 

It's dangerous to generalize and just dismiss an idea based on your playstyle rather than entertaining the idea and suggesting fixes/issues or pointing out conflicting mechanics with said idea.

Edited June 30, 2025 by Enjen

[Thorfinn]

6 minutes ago, Enjen said:

but even still what does his experience have to do with the idea (that he didn't come up with mind you, he only supported it and expanded on it as time progressed) that is being suggested?

Simple. If he doesn't know the current system, how would he have any idea what it contains? Isn't an informed opinion supposed to be a good thing?

6 minutes ago, Enjen said:

I'd like to ask, is every overhaul suggestion a question to his developer mind?

No one, and I mean, NO ONE has, to the best of my knowledge, in the entire time I've been here, asserted he had a keen developer mind, yet absolutely refused to make even a feeble attempt to understand what the current system was.

Edited June 30, 2025 by Thorfinn

[Thorfinn]

9 minutes ago, Enjen said:

^ There is a stark difference in how you apologized and how Rudometkin apologized earlier in the thread.

Wait a sec! There is NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL!

He said he apologized for making me feel "threatened", I apologized for making him feel "offended". IN THE VERY SAME QUOTES YOU CITED!

Learn to read for comprehension.

Edited June 30, 2025 by Thorfinn

[Enjen]

1 minute ago, Thorfinn said:

Simple. If he doesn't know the current system, how would he have any idea what it contains? Isn't an informed opinion supposed to be a good thing?

No one, and I mean, NO ONE has, to the best of my knowledge, in the entire time I've been here, asserted he had a keen developer mind, yet absolutely refused to make a feeble attempt to understand what the current system was.

It is! An informed opinion is probably the best kind of opinion. What I'm saying is he doesn't need to have tons of experience with the system in order to want to share an idea.

I apologize, I think my message was a little confusing what I was trying to say was "I'd like to ask, is every overhaul suggestion a question to Tyron's developer mind" I wasn't referring to Rudometkin having a developer mind. I don't know anything about him.

[Enjen]

1 minute ago, Thorfinn said:

Wait a sec! There is NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL!

He said he apologized for making me feel "threatened", I apologized for making him feel "offended". IN THE VERY SAME QUOTES YOU CITED!

Learn to read for comprehension.

There is quite a difference. He elaborated on what part exactly made you feel offended and genuinely (at least to me) seemed to mean it.
 

There is no need to insult my comprehension when I have not been rude to you. Please calm down.

[Thorfinn]

5 minutes ago, Enjen said:

It is! An informed opinion is probably the best kind of opinion. What I'm saying is he doesn't need to have tons of experience with the system in order to want to share an idea.

I apologize, I think my message was a little confusing what I was trying to say was "I'd like to ask, is every overhaul suggestion a question to Tyron's developer mind" I wasn't referring to Rudometkin having a developer mind. I don't know anything about him.

I do not mind suggestions. Not in the slightest. I just expect at least a modicum of familiarity with the existing systems before being dismissive of others' concerns. Which he definitely did. He said @LadyWYT's concern was, um, I believe "irrelevant". How is that not dismissive? How is that respecting her opinion?

The game demands a lot of exploration. A lot of tedious fluff simply does not fit in with a game with a lot of exploration.

Edited June 30, 2025 by Thorfinn

[Enjen]

Just now, Thorfinn said:

I do not mind suggestions. Not in the slightest. I just expect at least a modicum of familiarity with the existing systems before being dismissive of others' concerns. The game demands a lot of exploration. A lot of tedious fluff simply does not fit in with a game with a lot of exploration.

I'm sorry your expectations of his familiarity of the game was not to your standard. But he was not being dismissive. Infact he was engaging you and Lady with questions to your critiques and concerns.

[LadyWYT]

3 minutes ago, Enjen said:

I'd like to start off by saying @Rudometkin I appreciate how fleshed out your responses are. They touch on many points and question the objections directly. You're replies are a bit abrasive, although at this point with how directly @LadyWYT and @Thorfinn (more so Thorfinn than LadyWYT) are attacking you and your experience in the game directly instead of your idea and debating that, I feel that abrasiveness is warranted... and still I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong) have not mentioned their character or your opinion of them..

With all due respect sir, don't drag me back into this. I said my piece regarding the initial suggestions in the thread, did my best to make my case on breaking them down in regards to how they could be implemented and potentially affect the game. I don't have anything further to say currently on those suggestions, and I don't have an interest in making the fight personal, which at this point is what the thread has turned into.

The most I'll say is thus:

9 minutes ago, Enjen said:

^ The idea doesn't discourage exploration. It would change how much you had to respect and care for your farm that's for sure and I agree that the idea as is needs work if it were to be implemented, that's what the discussion is for. It'd need to be balanced in a way where it can be utilized at all levels of progression. There isn't inherently anything wrong with wanting more from a system.
In your subtext you forgot to mention that it is "NOT fun to me" May be sharing a bit too much here but I actually enjoy being base mom. My wife and sibling are more the type to go explore and fight and get into all sorts of danger. Just an example of people having different playstyles. 

Some players do enjoy hanging out at base more, and that's a fair point. However, the game still needs to be able to be completed for the average player in singleplayer. The more maintenance the player has to do at home, the less opportunity they really have to go wandering off exploring.

 

11 minutes ago, Enjen said:

It's dangerous to generalize and just dismiss an idea based on your playstyle rather than entertaining the idea and suggesting fixes/issues or pointing out conflicting mechanics with said idea.

The reason I point out problems I see with the farming suggestions, and don't offer a solution as to how they could be implemented in a way that's likely to be fun for most players ...is that I've turned the ideas every which way in my head, and don't see a good solution for it. If I can't think of a good solution for a suggestion, and don't otherwise see that it adds anything particularly valuable in terms of gameplay, then I tend not to be in favor of implementing the idea into the game.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

39 minutes ago, Enjen said:

In your subtext you forgot to mention that it is "NOT fun to me" May be sharing a bit too much here but I actually enjoy being base mom.

Because that is YOUR CHOICE. In my subtext, I said "being forced". If this kind of micromanagement of the base were in the vanilla game, those who do not enjoy that type of gameplay would be turned off by it, no doubt, but if it's a requirement for the playthrough to even succeed, then it needs to be something that can be enjoyed by everyone. CHOOSING to be the base mom is fine. I don't have a problem with that. But like Thorfinn doesn't enjoy chiseling, I don't enjoy base mom-ing. Why should your choice be my default?