Are we the monsters? (Encounter with a shiver)

[MagpieOAO]

I jump at practically every creeping thing in the dark so I'm utterly filled with dread as I try to 'access control' a cave by blocking off portions I've explored so only small areas easily lit with torches are all I gotta deal with. I've just come from a room that went from sandstone (fairly bright) to basalt with a waterfall tumbling down I don't know how far. It was beautiful but also incredibly eerie and being in the middle of winter I'm ready to run home and cautiously making my way back up.

When a tangle of limbs and tattered rags lands on top of me.

I wildly swipe with a makeshift club, knocking it away and sending it skittering away a few feet where it curls up in a corner and begins shivering. Having been chased by them on a few occasions, I have absolutely no desire to try to run past it and the rest of the way up. So I press on after it, bashing the shivering, whimpering creature that has curled itself into a ball wildly with a rusty scrap studded club until it lets out a tortured groan and curls into itself. 

I'm not the monster. I just wanted to be left alone...

[Poxxs]

From my very limited lore knowledge I don’t think we are the bad guys. Although that could change. I could see something like I Am Legend being the case. 

[Guimoute]

Seraphs are humans accidentally changed by the Machine as per the story. Drifters, shivers, bowtorns are likely humans corrupted by the Rust since they wear pants and the voice in the Resonance Archives says "they can't all have died and they can't all have turned".

Edited June 15, 2025 by Guimoute

[Dark Thoughts]

18 hours ago, Poxxs said:

From my very limited lore knowledge I don’t think we are the bad guys. Although that could change. I could see something like I Am Legend being the case. 

I've not read too much of the lore yet but from the bits I found it kinda sounds like humanity somehow used the rust world to power a lot of their technology, until it backfired. There's quite a bit of lore updates yet to come too so I am sure there's some revelations that will come with that as well.

6 hours ago, Guimoute said:

Drifters, shivers, bowtorns are likely humans corrupted by the Rust since they wear pants and the voice in the Resonance Archives says "they can't all have died and they can't all have turned".

Imo the dialog from the trader makes their human origin already pretty obvious.

Edited June 15, 2025 by Dark Thoughts

[Maelstrom]

On 6/15/2025 at 6:32 AM, Guimoute said:

Seraphs are humans accidentally changed by the Machine as per the story. Drifters, shivers, bowtorns are likely humans corrupted by the Rust since they wear pants and the voice in the Resonance Archives says "they can't all have died and they can't all have turned". [emphasis added]

No.  Conversation with a certain 2nd story character very much indicates Seraphs were one of the desired outcomes.

[Guimoute]

4 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

No.  Conversation with a certain 2nd story character very much indicates Seraphs were one of the desired outcomes.

Please provide a quote indicating that. It feels like you are mixing up the purpose of the Machine and the purpose of the Tower. 

Edited June 21, 2025 by Guimoute

[Maelstrom]

I don't have quotes.  But I recall Tobias saying something to the effect of...
 

Spoiler

The tower brought the seraphs forward in time.  This coincides with traders saying seraphim are waking up all over the place.

 

[FatherMcGnutty]

This may be a bone-headed way to view it, but I mean, just look at a shiver. Really, look at it. Then look at your character. Which one of those things is "good" and which one is "bad"? I rest my case.

[LadyWYT]

On 6/20/2025 at 7:57 PM, Guimoute said:

Please provide a quote indicating that. It feels like you are mixing up the purpose of the Machine and the purpose of the Tower. 

I could be wrong, but based on everything I've pieced together so far, the Tower houses the Machine. When you put it and some of the stuff surrounding it together, it resembles what's depicted in the "Salvation" tapestry. And given what a certain old friend has said so far, I don't think what's contained in the Tower is something he could have orchestrated himself.

 

On 6/23/2025 at 8:13 AM, ReverendPutty said:

This may be a bone-headed way to view it, but I mean, just look at a shiver. Really, look at it. Then look at your character. Which one of those things is "good" and which one is "bad"? I rest my case.

The difference between the two is that the player character still has the ability to choose between good and evil. The shivers and similar monsters no longer have that choice--they're mindless monstrosities.