v1.21.0-rc.1 - Story Chapter 2 Redux

[CastIronFabric]

15 hours ago, Dark Thoughts said:

It's about as subjective as everything. I'm not saying the aggregation of the internet is incorrect, I'm saying that an LLM is simply choosing the most probable tokens for its next word to pick from. If there's a wild variety of opinions on a certain topic, then there's also a wild variety of probably tokens a reply can be formed with - assuming there's been no further clean-up of the data. I'm simply asserting not to use LLMs the way that you've used them.

What people personally think is usually based on their personal experience. If someone played only Diablo, then they will be thinking that Diablo is an RPG, even though it lacks the deeper story elements & roleplaying factors. However, I very much already explained to take the historical origins of the genre into account, and those very clearly have the often mentioned aspects in common, which is ultimately what formed the genre - and that's consequently what the definition boils down to. You can argue about that, but just like TicTok zoomers define the abbreviation of "PoV" to something that it isn't, does not mean the definition of "PoV" is somehow subjective. Everyone who knows what "PoV" means & stands for, and always has been standing for, knows that this is bullshit.

All RPGs have character progression (excluding maybe LARPING, because real life and it is more like a theater than a game) != all games with character progression are RPGs.

Honestly, it seems you're just here to argue over semantics that other people don't seem to struggle much to understand, for a topic that apparently does not even interest you, which is a bit weird.

I am confused on a few points.

1. you say LLM is questionable and the proceed to give me THE definition of RPG that is exactly the same as the LLM just did, which character progression and only character progression which describes almost all games. If one was to make Xskills part of VS then it would be a RPG according to you as well as according to AI.

2. So, if a developer says 'has RPG elements' what exactly would one reasonably expect the game to have? a skill system perhaps? I encourage you to answer that question in my other thread found in 'Other Games' because I got us way off topic.

Also, I can not imagine for the life of me that a so called AAA gaming company would sell something as an 'RPG' and NOT have said game heavy on story. I do not agree with their view on what an RPG should have but the point is, some developers do.

Edited July 29, 2025 by CastIronFabric

[CastIronFabric]

15 hours ago, Krougal said:

FFS why does everyone continue to discuss topics other than the update in these threads? Fucking rpers!!!

 

Speaking of the topic.

Is it normal for mods to not be working by the time they have a release client? Expanded Foods is still not working and I do not see any evidence that the Mod creators are doing anything but I do not know where to look for such evidence.

[Nymue]

17 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said:

Speaking of the topic.

Is it normal for mods to not be working by the time they have a release client? Expanded Foods is still not working and I do not see any evidence that the Mod creators are doing anything but I do not know where to look for such evidence.

This is still off topic. A question about a specific mod is not something the game devs are going to answer, that is what the Mod forum is for.

[CastIronFabric]

23 minutes ago, Nymue said:

This is still off topic. A question about a specific mod is not something the game devs are going to answer, that is what the Mod forum is for.

it is directly related to the update of the release client and if I had only one question to ask Tyron it would be 'have you been in contact by many mod creators for the update'

I am not sure what the proper list of things to ask would be but that would be the ONLY question I would have. Having said that I was not aware this was a Q/A forum thread. I will say the chances of me updating my client version without Expanded Foods working on the build is near zero

Edited July 29, 2025 by CastIronFabric

[Krougal]

1 hour ago, CastIronFabric said:

it is directly related to the update of the release client and if I had only one question to ask Tyron it would be 'have you been in contact by many mod creators for the update'

I am not sure what the proper list of things to ask would be but that would be the ONLY question I would have. Having said that I was not aware this was a Q/A forum thread. I will say the chances of me updating my client version without Expanded Foods working on the build is near zero

Yeah, I consider it legit, because there are mods that I will not play with, but fortunately most of them are updated (the lack of inventory tweaks is fucking killing me).

So many modders do no upgrade until the stable release. People like Dana who have a lot of mods to update, and limited time don't want to do the work twice and I can't blame them.

A lot of mods I use also haven't been updated since 1.17 and they have worked through 1.20, unfortunately some of them may be dead.

I can fix simple mods myself, but anything with dlls is too much of a pain in the ass for me.

[CastIronFabric]

6 minutes ago, Krougal said:

Yeah, I consider it legit, because there are mods that I will not play with, but fortunately most of them are updated (the lack of inventory tweaks is fucking killing me).

So many modders do no upgrade until the stable release. People like Dana who have a lot of mods to update, and limited time don't want to do the work twice and I can't blame them.

A lot of mods I use also haven't been updated since 1.17 and they have worked through 1.20, unfortunately some of them may be dead.

I can fix simple mods myself, but anything with dlls is too much of a pain in the ass for me.

Thanks for the info and I agree that makes sense, I to would not spend too much time updating a mod while a build is also being tested because that is a bit like trying to upgrade a car while its in motion.

 

 

 

[Dark Thoughts]

On 7/28/2025 at 11:44 PM, majestik said:

I just add my two cents here, as a larper, that you can absolutely have character progression in LARP games ! 

That would be roleplayed though, no? Or do you throw dices based on your stats and then play out the results? I only know LARP as going by a rough script with lots of improvisation.

[Dark Thoughts]

23 hours ago, CastIronFabric said:

I am confused on a few points.

1. you say LLM is questionable and the proceed to give me THE definition of RPG that is exactly the same as the LLM just did, which character progression and only character progression which describes almost all games. If one was to make Xskills part of VS then it would be a RPG according to you as well as according to AI.

2. So, if a developer says 'has RPG elements' what exactly would one reasonably expect the game to have? a skill system perhaps? I encourage you to answer that question in my other thread found in 'Other Games' because I got us way off topic.

Also, I can not imagine for the life of me that a so called AAA gaming company would sell something as an 'RPG' and NOT have said game heavy on story. I do not agree with their view on what an RPG should have but the point is, some developers do.

1. No, you're not listening. An LLM can give you many different answers to the same question, some of which may or may not be correct. We've been over this. And not almost all games have character progression, I also already said that all RPGs have character progression but not all games with character progression are RPGs. It's simply a requirement for an RPG to have character progression though, next to its other defining features.

2. Depends entirely on the developer and the game and what they envision. It could be a character progression  system or one or more other things that define RPGs as a genre. I honestly don't want to make this a separate topic because it's been explained enough already and I struggle to see where the issue in understanding is.

An RPG doesn't have to be heavy on story itself. Many RPGs may not even have a main story, especially open world RPGs tend to just have background lore and your characters actions are what write your own personal story.

[majestik]

19 minutes ago, Dark Thoughts said:

That would be roleplayed though, no? Or do you throw dices based on your stats and then play out the results? I only know LARP as going by a rough script with lots of improvisation.

In most system I played with, if your character survive the larp, they gain experience points that then they can use to buy more skills that are available in the rules. For example if i play an alchemist with an alchemy skill lvl 1, i could be able to roleplay the creation of basic potions (defined by the rules, with ingredients provided by the organisation - usually false flowers, stuff like that), and if my character survived the larp, i could maybe buy the lvl 2 offering me better recipes to know.

Of course it is not universal depending the type of larp you play, the format, etc.

So, I think your definition of larp is correct if incomplete : there is a more-or-less rough script (the story), lot of improv (the interpretation) and a set of rules to complete all of that and make it work 

[CastIronFabric]

1 hour ago, Dark Thoughts said:

1. No, you're not listening. An LLM can give you many different answers to the same question, some of which may or may not be correct. We've been over this. And not almost all games have character progression, I also already said that all RPGs have character progression but not all games with character progression are RPGs. It's simply a requirement for an RPG to have character progression though, next to its other defining features.

2. Depends entirely on the developer and the game and what they envision. It could be a character progression  system or one or more other things that define RPGs as a genre. I honestly don't want to make this a separate topic because it's been explained enough already and I struggle to see where the issue in understanding is.

An RPG doesn't have to be heavy on story itself. Many RPGs may not even have a main story, especially open world RPGs tend to just have background lore and your characters actions are what write your own personal story.

please go to 'Other Games' and engage in the conversation there. I would be curious given you seem to know THE definition of RPG that is objective and true for everyone but I would like to know your source for such definitive defintion.

[Dark Thoughts]

3 hours ago, CastIronFabric said:

please go to 'Other Games' and engage in the conversation there. I would be curious given you seem to know THE definition of RPG that is objective and true for everyone but I would like to know your source for such definitive defintion.

I'd rather not, since you either refuse to actually read, lack the reading comprehension to understand what I'm saying, or you simply argue in bad faith - which becomes more and more likely with each comment. So I'll just leave this topic be and block you now.

[Maelstrom]

I can't blame you for choosing to block him.  He's rather...   mm...  immature in conversation.  Makes me think the age has yet to reach a score of years.

[Krougal]

25 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

I can't blame you for choosing to block him.  He's rather...   mm...  immature in conversation.  Makes me think the age has yet to reach a score of years.

How come you older and more mature people can't set a good example and take it somewhere else?

I mean it might be the pot calling the kettle black for me to criticize people going off-topic, but this is for update news FFS!

Edited July 30, 2025 by Krougal

[Maelstrom]

Coz we old farts just don't give a... flip.   

Btw - You'll get that when you become an old fart too.  

[Krougal]

38 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Coz we old farts just don't give a... flip.   

Btw - You'll get that when you become an old fart too.  

I think I passed that and went right to grumpy old man.

Get off my lawn!!!

Edited July 30, 2025 by Krougal

[CastIronFabric]

15 hours ago, Krougal said:

I think I passed that and went right to grumpy old man.

Get off my lawn!!!

I am 58 years old and what I am saying is not complex nor controversial at all

Edited July 31, 2025 by CastIronFabric