Where did Jonas get his knowledge?

[Maelstrom]

We know that before Jonas the earth was the same as ours.   Then Jonas builds the lens and their earth goes sideways compared to ours.

So where did Jonas get his knowledge to build something that our 21st century technology cannot do - peer into an alternate dimension?

[LadyWYT]

My guess is he was either a prodigy for the sake of the plot and figured out alchemical science(some of which actually works in this setting), or he made a Faustian bargain that isn't yet known in order to receive his knowledge.

I'm leaning more towards the former than the latter. I think Jonas was legitimately very intelligent and made the discoveries himself, but was so focused on trying to better the lives of most everyone that he perhaps didn't fully consider the implications of what he was messing with. That is, messing with prima materia and temporal power could have drastic consequences, or that there might be individuals who would ignore caution and hijack his research for their own selfish means.

Jonas isn't the one I'm worried about though. He seems to have had good intentions over all, and did the best he could despite being dealt a horrible hand of cards, so to speak. Tobias is actually the one I'm more inclined to be suspicious of; I don't think he's evil(or intentionally so), but he's possibly the one that left the strange unsigned carving in the Lazaret(the one that was pretty unhinged). If that's the case, he's gone a bit senile and might not be exercising the caution that he should. However, it's also worth noting that he was a commoner with some fairly deep resentment toward nobility in general, as evidenced in what we can read of his personal diary. He expressed quite a bit of frustration with no one taking him seriously(aside from Jonas) when it came to ideas of improving life for the common folk, as well as expressing some frustration for Jonas himself for moving perhaps a bit too slowly on such matters.

I'm also not sure that Tobias is aware of why all the automatons started going rogue. Tobias does seem to be aware of some of the dangers of messing with temporal power, however, Jonas seems to be the only one fully aware of what was happening "behind the scenes", given what were can read in "Breakdown" and "Confession". While the two were close friends, I'm not sure that Jonas actually shared that particular knowledge with anyone else. It's possible that that knowledge might have been his reason for not helping Tobias with his little tower project(the one that resulted in the Devastation). If so, that means that the joke Tobias cracks about his machines when the player questions them, might actually end up being some ugly foreshadowing(though I would really hope this doesn't prove to be true).

[Maelstrom]

From how well Luke is portraying Lovecraft I'll argue that it's a mix of the two.  Yes, those that delve into knowledge that should not be delved into are incredibly intelligent, but there's typically an aspect of someone on the other side providing information, but not in a Faustian bargain kind of way.  It's more that humans are ants compared to the extra-dimensional being and they're imparting trivial information so insignificant to them that there's no need to strike a bargain.  Then the problems begin because the expirementations (misspelling intentional) do not play well with our dimension.  Jonas' story of developing the lens has al the earmarks of Lovecraft.  Initial delvings are harmless as the poor sod becomes proficient with understanding such alien knowledge.  As the person delves deeper the warnings begin but they are now (over)confident in their ability to control the consequences of the alien knowledge that they blunder on where angels aren't even fearing to tread but do not tread.  The end game is that our world is impacted dramatically and it takes herculean efforts to repair the damage, IF it can be repaired.

I agree that Tobias is of great concern because his attempts to meddle in alien knowledge was much more disastrous than Jonas' blunderings.  BUT, Tobias would be completely blind to it if not for Jonas.  And here is where VS departs from typical Lovecraft literature.  The one that opens the gate to disaster does not stop and someone else discovers the results of their ill advised inquest to alien knowledge.

BUT, we could also be in the middle of the Lovecraft story since the rot is not cleaned up with a nice bow.  It will return unless something can repair what Jonas (and Tobias by extension) have started.  The seraphim may be the ones to fix what Jonas started.

[LadyWYT]

16 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

The seraphim may be the ones to fix what Jonas started.

I am thinking this is the case. Not sure if Lovecraft stories end happily or not, but I do get the impression that Vintage Story is angling for a happy ending for the main story...or at least, a relatively happy one. My guess is that after fixing whatever keeps causing the temporal mess and stopping the Rot once and for all, the seraphs either turn back to humans and live out the rest of their lives as normal, or else stay as seraphs and eventually do as Tolkien's elves: gradually fade from the world until they're nothing but mere legend. Both situations solve the potential problems that result from immortal beings just hanging around in mortal society, while still providing a plausible lore reason for the player to keep playing a world after completing the main story. 

 

16 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

I agree that Tobias is of great concern because his attempts to meddle in alien knowledge was much more disastrous than Jonas' blunderings.

I believe it was @ifoz that first suggested this, and I'm inclined to agree--Tobias probably knows good and well the consequences his actions could have, and went through with it anyway because he's very pragmatic. I doubt he's a fan of causing death and destruction, but he's probably willing to turn a blind eye to negative consequences if it's for "the greater good" and he sees no better alternative.

[Maelstrom]

5 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Not sure if Lovecraft stories end happily or not.

Some do.  Some don't.  

 

5 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

 the seraphs either turn back to humans and live out the rest of their lives as normal, or else stay as seraphs and 

 

Edited December 13, 2025 by Maelstrom

[LadyWYT]

On 12/12/2025 at 6:20 PM, Maelstrom said:

his attempts to meddle in alien knowledge was much more disastrous than Jonas' blunderings.

Jumping back here, but regarding the Tower, I can't help but wonder if Tobias's efforts were the reason it blew up, or whether it's actually the result of the player's tampering when they jump backward in time. The player can loot some of the chests in the past, and while that itself might be unintended part of the puzzle does require the player to mess with some things in the past in order to unlock the door in the present. I'm guessing that Tobias's plan was risky to start with and like I said before, he probably already knew about and accepted the consequences of such actions. However, I can't help but wonder if the player didn't potentially play a role in it by stealing his notes or disturbing tools and materials from where they should be in the past. A butterfly effect, if you will.