1.22 Traders - Discussion and Feedback

[ifoz]

I've been messing around with the new traders lately, and thought I'd put my thoughts out there.
First of all, I really love their new designs - the scrappier appearance matches VS' post-post-apocalyptic vibe much more than their old look, where they looked to be doing quite well for themselves. Their old designs also looked like they were all part of one unified culture due to the shared colours and patterns, but they now look a little more like scavengers and survivors taking what they can get, which again I think is a nice change and fitting for their lore.

I also really hope that their outfits become obtainable for players by stable release - internally all trader outfits are Seraph-sized but get trimmed down by the game when put onto the traders. I asked Saraty about this a while back, and she said that while she hoped trader clothes could make it into stable, it would be a last-minute addition and so she could not confirm/deny if it was happening. Testing it out myself, most trader clothes seem to fit the Seraph fine with no alterations, so fingers crossed!

Fitting with this, the different climate type traders (cold, temperate and desert) have different outfit possibilities, which makes them a little more unique. I do think this idea could be expanded further though, as currently they are mostly the same aside from a couple outfits being added/removed from the pool of things they could possibly wear, and some skin colour variation between climates. Having cold traders always bundled up in furs and warm clothes I think would be a really nice change, as currently cold traders can spawn wearing only simple shirts and hose like their temperate counterparts.

Traders also all seem to have their hair styles weighted the same, which tends to result in a lot of baldness. I think perhaps bald hairstyles could be weighted a little lower to balance it out given there are so many types of balding available. Bald, indigenous balding, bald forehead, balding, tonsure, just to name a few.
(I did hear someone propose that you could imagine it as being to do with lice, which is a funny way of making the sheer amount of bald traders more fitting! )


I feel like every second trader I see is bald!

Luxuries traders also get some special treatment, having most bone-themed items taken out of their wearable pool, and getting things like monocles added instead. It could be really interesting if this idea was applied to other traders as well - treasure hunters would be more likely to wear masks and the scrap metal armour, clothing traders more likely to wear some of the fancier clothes, etc.

I am also a big fan of the new trader dwellings and outposts, though I do think it'd be nice if the 'forest' huts could also spawn in plains and fields rather than only in forests (though a bit rarer than the bunkers or wooden shelters), just to add a little more variety. The rare trader types are also a nice addition, and it's always fun to find one living in a treehouse.

I do think though that the outposts and huts show that the survival game is lacking in certain building options - mostly the palisades and roof beams accessible in creative. Players cannot actually replicate many of the trader builds due to them using these creative-only items, which I feel is a big missed opportunity, considering how prevalent roof beams are in one of the story locations. Having the player able to use traders as building inspiration, especially when they spawn so frequently as they do would be a nice way to introduce the player to more complex building techniques and ideas by just naturally showing them that these things are possible. Currently the traders show these things are possible in creative, but would disappoint a survival player looking to replicate their style.

Edited April 15 by ifoz

[LadyWYT]

4 hours ago, ifoz said:

(I did hear someone propose that you could imagine it as being to do with lice, which is a funny way of making the sheer amount of bald traders more fitting! )

Sure it's not because they're getting scalped by the player regarding prices? 

Different kinds of balding would be nice, though I wouldn't say it's an issue I've noticed. Most of the traders I've run across have either had hair, or were wearing some sort of hat or other head covering so no hair would be visible. My bigger gripe is that the occasional trader seems to have vacated their outpost. Now on the one hand, I don't really mind this, since finding an abandoned outpost would be really cool, however, these are not actually abandoned outposts as much as they are bugged ones. Basically, the bugs need to be fixed, but having the occasional outpost be ruined, with stuff for the player to take or a makeshift shelter for them to use, would be interesting.

4 hours ago, ifoz said:

I do think though that the outposts and huts show that the survival game is lacking in certain building options - mostly the palisades and roof beams accessible in creative. Players cannot actually replicate many of the trader builds due to them using these creative-only items, which I feel is a big missed opportunity, considering how prevalent roof beams are in one of the story locations. Having the player able to use traders as building inspiration, especially when they spawn so frequently as they do would be a nice way to introduce the player to more complex building techniques and ideas by just naturally showing them that these things are possible. Currently the traders show these things are possible in creative, but would disappoint a survival player looking to replicate their style.

This is probably the biggest issue of all, even with some of the story locations themselves. 1.22 seems to make some headway on this, in that better clutter is sold by a certain NPC. But you are correct that there is still plenty of stuff, like the palisades, that the player should be able to craft in survival but currently has to use creative to obtain, so it's not actually possible for the player to copy the pre-built structures themselves without some creative magic. 

Personally, I don't really mind using creative for occasional detailing, however, not every player wants to do this, and in multiplayer scenarios it's probably not going to be an option at all given that creative mode will need admin permission.

[ifoz]

13 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

This is probably the biggest issue of all, even with some of the story locations themselves. 1.22 seems to make some headway on this, in that better clutter is sold by a certain NPC. But you are correct that there is still plenty of stuff, like the palisades, that the player should be able to craft in survival but currently has to use creative to obtain, so it's not actually possible for the player to copy the pre-built structures themselves without some creative magic. 

Personally, I don't really mind using creative for occasional detailing, however, not every player wants to do this, and in multiplayer scenarios it's probably not going to be an option at all given that creative mode will need admin permission.

I was watching a playthrough video a while ago (I forget who by), and I remember them finding the treasure hunter and being excited because they assumed this was what they could have their base look like eventually, unaware that many of the techniques and items used there aren't obtainable in survival.
Adding a crafting recipe for roof beams, as well as having palisades made obtainable (even if they just functioned like fences) would really go a long way.

I can just envision quite a few survival players who are new to the game post-1.22 being disappointed that the structures that show up everywhere can't actually be replicated legitimately or used as building inspiration in that way. I myself really want them to be as well, but I am not so disappointed as I have been aware since their addition that this was sadly not possible. Traders just seem like such a nice way to introduce players naturally to more complex building techniques and styles, but it just isn't possible at the moment due to the lack of these integral items being obtainable.

If this doesn't change by 1.22 stable, I might use mods in a regular playthrough for once just to get craftable palisades and roof beams. I don't think that's a proper long-term solution though, since new players can't really be expected to install specific mods just to be able to build like the traders, and this isn't possible on multiplayer servers as you mentioned. The "Beamium" mod or something similar to it could honestly just be integrated into vanilla for this, their crafting recipes for the roof beams seem decently balanced. They also seem to allow you to craft the other unobtainable beams (rope beams and chain beams) as well, which is a nice feature.

Edited April 16 by ifoz

[LadyWYT]

11 hours ago, ifoz said:

If this doesn't change by 1.22 stable, I might use mods in a regular playthrough for once just to get craftable palisades and roof beams. I don't think that's a proper long-term solution though, since new players can't really be expected to install specific mods just to be able to build like the traders, and this isn't possible on multiplayer servers as you mentioned. The "Beamium" mod or something similar to it could honestly just be integrated into vanilla for this, their crafting recipes for the roof beams seem decently balanced. They also seem to allow you to craft the other unobtainable beams (rope beams and chain beams) as well, which is a nice feature.

I'm going to need to remember this, since this is a great example of where mods aren't the best long-term solution. It's one thing if the player is just after fancier ruins or something specific to their tastes, but being able to replicate simple builds like the trader huts and some of the story locations is something that should definitely be possible to do in survival mode without mods.