DarkGold Posted June 19 Report Posted June 19 (edited) In this discussion on long distance travel and story locations, the challenge of returning to base (for various reasons, but notably to haul loot) came up. The game currently grants a tool to return to base (the base return teleporter), but there's a choice to be made when using it at a story location currently; if you reset your spawn point at the story location (because you anticipate danger) you can't use your base return teleporter to get back to base anymore. 1 proposal came up in the discussion; have a different checkpoint system at story locations, so players don't have to change their respawn point there. This is one way to solve the problem. I have another proposal: a system like lodestones and compasses in Minecraft. It would be nice to be able to craft and construct base anchors in the world (similar to lodestones in Minecraft) and then tune a base return teleporter to a base anchor either during or after construction (similar to how compasses in Minecraft can be set to point to a lodestone). I think this still allows base return teleporters to be single use items, but allows for greater flexibility. Some problems I see: What happens if the base anchor is removed after the base return teleporter is tuned to it? I imagine it stops working (no longer has a set reference point to point to). This would mean you can't just have one base anchor you move (without consequence) and would mean tuning a base return teleporter would probably happen after construction, not during. Some clear benefits: I can tune a base return teleporter to an anchor at my base, bring that teleporter and an untuned base return teleporter and an anchor with me on a journey, place an anchor at my destination, use the untuned teleporter on the new anchor, and now I can go back to base with all my loot, then back to destination again after. This is still costing me lots of Jonas parts, and still requires lots of planning ahead. I don't see this messing with the lore, because we already have translocators that move the player independent from their spawn point. This would just mean base return teleporters are working more like translocators than terminus teleporters (looking at other fixed locations in the world rather than locations related to the seraph). Or base return teleporters may be able to do both; their untuned behavior may target the player's current spawn point, but their tuned behavior could target base anchors. --- That proposal aside, I would love the combat update to change the way I pursue Jonas parts to enable me to better hunt for parts I may be missing. Rather than the current wide drop pool, specific parts from specific enemies, or multiple smaller drop tables from specific sources, would be better for allowing the player to pursue constructing any given Jonas machine. I would hope that would mean parts for machines like base return teleporters are more accessible than parts for machines like terminus teleporters (since a single use machine would need to be recreated more often). Alternatively, the parts system could be reworked to be a little more generic, and then specific parts could be constructed with specific other materials (eg, maybe you need a high quality gem and a generic Jonas part to make a terminus teleporter part, but only glass and a generic Jonas part to make a base return teleporter part). This would be another way to make some machines easier to make while still making Jonas parts rare in general. Presumably all parts would still require cupronickel. --- I'd like to hear what others think. Do you agree? Do you have other ideas? Do you see flaws in the proposal? Do you love the current system? Please share Edited June 19 by DarkGold Correcting typos. Added thoughts on planning ahead, tuned vs untuned base return teleporter behavior, and single use machine construction frequency. 1
idiotforums Posted June 19 Report Posted June 19 There is terminus teleporter already Terminus + base tper + brain Go back and forth to story location however many times u want
DarkGold Posted June 19 Author Report Posted June 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, idiotforums said: There is terminus teleporter already The terminus teleporter requires you to die to get back to base. If you aren't using the setting that lets you keep items on death, this means you can't use this strategy to haul loot too and from base? Actually, let me confirm I understand. You would: set spawn at base, build terminus there. travel to destination. loot stuff? die, respawn at base. use terminus teleporter, back to destination. loot stuff, return to base with base teleporter. repeat 4 and 5, until looting is done? So you intentionally die to set a point, then can reuse the terminus teleporter without dying again, because the point persists? Edited June 19 by DarkGold Checking understanding
DarkGold Posted June 19 Author Report Posted June 19 (edited) 32 minutes ago, DarkGold said: So you intentionally die to set a point, then can reuse the terminus teleporter without dying again, because the point persists? I didn't really consider that you could use the terminus teleporter multiple times without dying in between. That makes a lot of sense. I would still like it if the utility of base return teleporters was extended so I could do return visits to locations I had been to before without making the journey out there again with sufficient planning. Example We have three locations: Base, L1, L2. I place an anchor at Base, set my respawn point at base, tune a base return teleporter (BRT) to Base. I travel to L1 with 2 untuned BRTs and 2 anchors. I place an anchor at L1, tune a BRT to the L1 anchor. I travel to L2 with 1 untuned BRT, a BRT tuned to L1, and 1 anchor. I place an anchor at L2, tune a BRT to the L2 anchor. Now that I am at L2, I can either: Die, return to Base. Use my BRT tuned to L1. This is more options than if I could only die and return to base or die and return to L1 (if I chose to set my spawn point there instead), based on previous choices. I can have both choices available to me at the same time at a later moment, rather than locking in my choice ahead of time. This is good if I don't know what choice I will want to make at L1 or L2 when I leave Base. This also means I am safe to change my spawn point to locations I think might be really dangerous to get the benefit of up to 20 respawns (by default), rather than 1 temporal gear per respawn (via terminus teleporter), if I carry a Base tuned BRT with me. Edited June 19 by DarkGold Correcting typos. Added note on deferred choices and changing spawn point if carrying Base tune BRT.
DarkGold Posted June 19 Author Report Posted June 19 (edited) 10 minutes ago, CastIronFabric said: There are a handful of mods that make long distance traveling very compelling game play I find the first time I make a journey quite compelling. It's quick trips back and forth that I think it would be difficult, even with mods, to make more compelling. Why? I've seen what there is to see on the way there. The goal of going back and forth is usually just to move resources, so I don't have a lot of inventory space to stop on the journey back and acquire more resources if my inventory is already full. I am also trying to minimize risk. It takes a lot of time to travel there and back, and I might have to do this several times. Cutting down this time is my goal. If I was journeying on a road, in a self driving wagon, and I could be crafting in the back of the wagon while I was moving, so I could accomplish 2 things at once, there might be a way to address point 3, but I assume most mods aren't addressing points 1 and 2? Curious if they are! Edited June 19 by DarkGold Correcting typos 1
CastIronFabric Posted June 19 Report Posted June 19 (edited) 12 minutes ago, DarkGold said: I find the first time I make a journey quite compelling. It's quick trips back and forth that I think it would be difficult, even with mods, to make more compelling. Why? I've seen what there is to see on the way there. The goal of going back and forth is usually just to move resources, so I don't have a lot of inventory space to stop on the journey back and acquire more resources if my inventory is already full. I am also trying to minimize risk. It takes a lot of time to travel there and back, and I might have to do this several times. Cutting down this time is my goal. If I was journeying on a road, in a self driving wagon, and I could be crafting in the back of the wagon while I was moving, so I could accomplish 2 things at once, there might be a way to address point 3, but I assume most mods aren't addressing points 1 and 2? Curious if they are! well I deleted that post because what I said is not really directly related to what you were saying over all. I posted that because my current game play I am very excited about because i have very long term, very long travel goals in mind with multiple bases. In fact, traveling long distances is more or less the center pillar of my game play but none of it is related to the story locations but it is dependent on a few specific mods. Cartwright Caravan's being one of them. Edited June 19 by CastIronFabric 1
LadyWYT Posted June 19 Report Posted June 19 6 hours ago, DarkGold said: 1 proposal came up in the discussion; have a different checkpoint system at story locations, so players don't have to change their respawn point there. This is one way to solve the problem. I have another proposal: a system like lodestones and compasses in Minecraft. It would be nice to be able to craft and construct base anchors in the world (similar to lodestones in Minecraft) and then tune a base return teleporter to a base anchor either during or after construction (similar to how compasses in Minecraft can be set to point to a lodestone). I think this still allows base return teleporters to be single use items, but allows for greater flexibility. Why not both? The former can act as a small convenience for tougher story locations, perhaps requiring the player to sacrifice a bit of health or otherwise complete a small puzzle in order to activate the device. The latter would be extremely useful for players who want to play without the map enabled, or who otherwise might want to build a puzzle somewhere and send their friends on a treasure hunt. It could also serve as a useful plot device to point a player to a location, instead of always needing to rely on maps(that characters may or may not be able to feasibly draw). Likewise, those anchors could be a component needed to build one's own teleporters, and it would make it very easy to change the teleporter's destination as well by simply swapping out the "anchor". That means players could build a single teleporter at their base and swap the anchors as needed, rather than needing to build an entire hall of teleporters to handle a network. 6 hours ago, DarkGold said: What happens if the base anchor is removed after the base return teleporter is tuned to it? I imagine it stops working (no longer has a set reference point to point to). This would mean you can't just have one base anchor you move (without consequence) and would mean tuning a base return teleporter would probably happen after construction, not during. I think in this case, the base return teleporter(BRT) will still work as long as the anchor it's linked to is actually placed down in the world. If the anchor is sitting in someone's inventory or sitting in a storage container, then it will be unusable until the anchor is placed down somewhere. Of course, the easiest solution is probably just to break the link if the anchor is picked up. Overall, the BRT is best suited to the job it has now--a single-use convenience item that allows the player to safely skip the walk home. 6 hours ago, DarkGold said: That proposal aside, I would love the combat update to change the way I pursue Jonas parts to enable me to better hunt for parts I may be missing. Rather than the current wide drop pool, specific parts from specific enemies, or multiple smaller drop tables from specific sources, would be better for allowing the player to pursue constructing any given Jonas machine. I would hope that would mean parts for machines like base return teleporters are more accessible than parts for machines like terminus teleporters (since a single use machine would need to be recreated more often). I'm okay with random part drops, but I would like a way to exchange parts that I don't need for parts that I do need. Perhaps even a way to purchase parts with rusty gears, albeit at an expensive price. 6 hours ago, DarkGold said: Alternatively, the parts system could be reworked to be a little more generic, and then specific parts could be constructed with specific other materials (eg, maybe you need a high quality gem and a generic Jonas part to make a terminus teleporter part, but only glass and a generic Jonas part to make a base return teleporter part). This would be another way to make some machines easier to make while still making Jonas parts rare in general. Presumably all parts would still require cupronickel. Actually, I don't think Jonas parts should be craftable, at least not on the basic level. The player does have most advanced knowledge, yes, since much knowledge has been lost to time, but the player isn't exactly on the same level as Jonas himself or the lead engineers. Except maybe the Clockmaker, but that's too much power for a single class. I wouldn't mind seeing more advanced parts required in construction though, in return for making the basic parts a little easier to acquire. Not everything requires lots of complex parts, but it is rather satisfying to build the more complex pieces of a project over time before finally being able to assemble it all later. 4 hours ago, DarkGold said: I find the first time I make a journey quite compelling. It's quick trips back and forth that I think it would be difficult, even with mods, to make more compelling. Why? I've seen what there is to see on the way there. The goal of going back and forth is usually just to move resources, so I don't have a lot of inventory space to stop on the journey back and acquire more resources if my inventory is already full. I am also trying to minimize risk. It takes a lot of time to travel there and back, and I might have to do this several times. Cutting down this time is my goal. This is why the player gets a "fast travel" option as a reward for completing Chapter Two. Yes, the journey takes a lot of time, but the time spent makes the world feel believably big, so it's not something you finish only to think "gee, why couldn't any of the local traders tell me about any of this" or "why does everyone act like it's some sort of vast distance when it only took me a few minutes to jog there." However, like you said, return trips aren't going to be as exciting, because you already know what's there and at that point you're just doing a mundane task rather than setting forth on a quest. In these cases, it's not a bad idea to give players some sort of option to make these future trips a little shorter. 1
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