More Realistic Sea and Content ( not just the typical stuff )

[SCHPETZE]

I might sureley not be the first to say something among this lines, but I want to add something as I feel it's not something obvious at first glance, but which im sure a lot of people will apreciate, 

To start with the basics, as I bet many others have said before, more content, from more marine animals, to more boats, more customization, etc.. 

But now, my own suggestion, is realistic navigation, now ofc, there will allways be a need to make sure we still keep the gameplay fun, but I feel like it's still too easy for vintage story style of game, firstly, storms and strong winds and big waves and such, to be able to deroute the ship.

Secondky, for the sail to need actual wind to work, ( but i was thinking more of, not being as harsh as in real life, where if you didn't have good win direction, you were stuck ) but rather, be faster when wind right behind you, and be slower when wind in front of you, ( to simulate the zig zag sailors had to take when fighting the wind ) and to also add the possibility to row in any boat, for an extra boost of speed when wind isn't that forgiving.. 

Thirdly, overall more realistic boats and such, uk, be more imersive and such

Fourthly, the possibility to stand on the boat inside it, not to be forced to either sit, of fall off, for boats to be actual walls with actuall hit boxes, especially on larger boats, this can have infinite uses, from being able to shoot with arrows while hiding behind the wall, or having little parties while the ship is sailing, and thus also being to place chests and whatnot on the ground the same as on normal ground, in any angle, in any location.. stacked or not.. 

And lastly, but most important one, more boats, from small kayaks to large pirate ships, it will add such a HUUUGE layer to the game, i bet im not the only one exited for this, and again, i know some if not most of this was already said, but I feel like i want to make sure that the details are also out there now.. 

Edited Wednesday at 10:19 PM by SCHPETZE

[LadyWYT]

2 hours ago, SCHPETZE said:

Fourthly, the possibility to stand on the boat inside it, not to be forced to either sit, of fall off, for boats to be actual walls with actuall hit boxes, especially on larger boats, this can have infinite uses, from being able to shoot with arrows while hiding behind the wall, or having little parties while the ship is sailing, and thus also being to place chests and whatnot on the ground the same as on normal ground, in any angle, in any location.. stacked or not.. 

Given a teaser I saw the other day, this may be a feature sooner rather than later. 

 

2 hours ago, SCHPETZE said:

Secondky, for the sail to need actual wind to work, ( but i was thinking more of, not being as harsh as in real life, where if you didn't have good win direction, you were stuck ) but rather, be faster when wind right behind you, and be slower when wind in front of you, ( to simulate the zig zag sailors had to take when fighting the wind ) and to also add the possibility to row in any boat, for an extra boost of speed when wind isn't that forgiving.. 

So, Valheim wind mechanics? It would be interesting, for sure, though it would require some overhauling on how wind affects stuff like leaves and windmills. Windmills especially will need additional engineering options, so that you can engineer them to move to face the wind, rather than be forced to keep them in a static direction.

 

2 hours ago, SCHPETZE said:

But now, my own suggestion, is realistic navigation, now ofc, there will allways be a need to make sure we still keep the gameplay fun, but I feel like it's still too easy for vintage story style of game, firstly, storms and strong winds and big waves and such, to be able to deroute the ship.

This is really only a concern if you're not playing with the minimap enabled. I think having your ship sent off course is also the kind of mechanic that really only appeals to certain kinds of players, and not most players in general.

[SCHPETZE]

8 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Given a teaser I saw the other day, this may be a feature sooner rather than later. 

 

So, Valheim wind mechanics? It would be interesting, for sure, though it would require some overhauling on how wind affects stuff like leaves and windmills. Windmills especially will need additional engineering options, so that you can engineer them to move to face the wind, rather than be forced to keep them in a static direction.

 

This is really only a concern if you're not playing with the minimap enabled. I think having your ship sent off course is also the kind of mechanic that really only appeals to certain kinds of players, and not most players in general.

About the last point, i know, i thought about that, but i still feel like it still ads to the game, even tough you have the minimap, but I'd argue it's actually a bit better, firstly, as I don't think you'd want to get lost at sea and never make it back home, loosing months of progress just like that, and secondly, it still ads a layer of realism and difficulty, firstly, because it can simply make travel time longer, soo, still an incentive to try and avoid them, secondly, you could also make it that the boat can loose stuff, or if we want to go even more extreme, that the boat can destroy and such and you'd need to mentain it from time to time.. Altough the last one is just a stretch, 

And about the wind overhaul, firstly, i think that's still something VS needs already, and secondly, it could just be wind mechanics affecting only boats specifically, soo, no need to overhaul everything else wind related

[LadyWYT]

4 hours ago, SCHPETZE said:

About the last point, i know, i thought about that, but i still feel like it still ads to the game, even tough you have the minimap, but I'd argue it's actually a bit better, firstly, as I don't think you'd want to get lost at sea and never make it back home, loosing months of progress just like that, and secondly, it still ads a layer of realism and difficulty, firstly, because it can simply make travel time longer, soo, still an incentive to try and avoid them, secondly, you could also make it that the boat can loose stuff, or if we want to go even more extreme, that the boat can destroy and such and you'd need to mentain it from time to time.. Altough the last one is just a stretch

It'd probably need to be the kind of feature that the player can turn off. There's already a chunk of the playerbase that complains about travel times in the game, so they probably aren't going to be thrilled about more delays getting added. Likewise, many players don't like to lose their stuff, and losing stuff at sea is a recipe for disaster because not everything floats.

As for the maintenance thing, I could see it potentially working. However, there's nothing else in the game that really requires maintenance like that in order to keep working, and it's not really ideal to have the boat require maintenance but other mechanical things not take that into account. And in regards to the concept of maintenance, it does make sense for a realistic survival game, but the more time the player has to sink into keeping stuff maintained so that it works is time the player doesn't have to spend on other activities, like completing the story, exploring, hunting, etc. It'd be the kind of feature that takes a lot of work to implement in order to keep the game consistent, and the kind of feature that probably needs a toggle in the settings.

[Mark Watton]

I would LOVE some water themed enemies. When I learned oceans are mostly unimplemented to keep the salt bottleneck in place, I was rather irritated. Let me boil seawater for salt instead of treating it like lime.

[LadyWYT]

14 minutes ago, Mark Watton said:

When I learned oceans are mostly unimplemented to keep the salt bottleneck in place, I was rather irritated.

Where did you see this? To my knowledge, the lack of aquatic content has nothing to do with salt. The devs just haven't gotten around to developing a lot of aquatic content yet, and most of the game takes place on land, so land-based content tends to be more of a priority.

[Mark Watton]

1 minute ago, LadyWYT said:

Where did you see this? To my knowledge, the lack of aquatic content has nothing to do with salt. The devs just haven't gotten around to developing a lot of aquatic content yet, and most of the game takes place on land, so land-based content tends to be more of a priority.

they implemented salt water and then removed it. I should be able to boil saltwater into salt..

[LadyWYT]

1 minute ago, Mark Watton said:

they implemented salt water and then removed it. I should be able to boil saltwater into salt..

Salt water is still in the game though? In the oceans? To my knowledge, boiling saltwater into salt hasn't ever been a vanilla thing, though it is a commonly requested feature.

[Mark Watton]

1 minute ago, LadyWYT said:

Salt water is still in the game though? In the oceans? To my knowledge, boiling saltwater into salt hasn't ever been a vanilla thing, though it is a commonly requested feature.

I have yet to encounter it, of course I also built ontop of a lake in the hopes of building water wheels. (Boy did i make a mistake.) so that's where my water comes from. From your own admission, my point still stands.

[LadyWYT]

3 minutes ago, Mark Watton said:

I have yet to encounter it

By default, 97.5% of the world is land, which means that 2.5% is ocean. So you'll run into an ocean eventually, if you explore far enough, assuming that you weren't lucky enough to have one near spawn. Most of the world's water will be freshwater though.

That being said, boiling saltwater has never been implemented in vanilla, as of the time of this writing anyway. So I'm a little confused on where you're getting the following statements:

13 minutes ago, Mark Watton said:

they implemented salt water and then removed it.

31 minutes ago, Mark Watton said:

When I learned oceans are mostly unimplemented to keep the salt bottleneck in place, I was rather irritated.

The oceans are there, just not prevalent by default because aquatic content isn't fully fleshed out yet, and having large swathes of water filled with nothing and having little gameplay options doesn't really make for a fun experience. "The content not being created yet" isn't the same thing as "The devs made the content and then removed it to bottleneck the player".

I wouldn't be surprised if they added the ability to boil saltwater down into salt someday, but I really doubt it's a development priority right now. In the meantime, there are mods that add such a feature.

16 hours ago, SCHPETZE said:

possibility to stand on the boat inside it

Incidentally, there's also a mod for this right now: https://mods.vintagestory.at/walkabledeck

[Mark Watton]

You said it yourself. It was a safe assumption salt water was removed because i didn't encounter it. Saltwater was supposed to spawn over sand instead of gravel, so i just figured it got removed. since i found lots of sand lakes.

[Mark Watton]

8 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

By default, 97.5% of the world is land, which means that 2.5% is ocean. So you'll run into an ocean eventually, if you explore far enough, assuming that you weren't lucky enough to have one near spawn. Most of the world's water will be freshwater though.

That being said, boiling saltwater has never been implemented in vanilla, as of the time of this writing anyway. So I'm a little confused on where you're getting the following statements:

The oceans are there, just not prevalent by default because aquatic content isn't fully fleshed out yet, and having large swathes of water filled with nothing and having little gameplay options doesn't really make for a fun experience. "The content not being created yet" isn't the same thing as "The devs made the content and then removed it to bottleneck the player".

I wouldn't be surprised if they added the ability to boil saltwater down into salt someday, but I really doubt it's a development priority right now. In the meantime, there are mods that add such a feature.

Incidentally, there's also a mod for this right now: https://mods.vintagestory.at/walkabledeck

I can appreciate,and even love some mods, but if they're doing most of the work I lose respect for the developers.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

30 minutes ago, Mark Watton said:

I can appreciate,and even love some mods, but if they're doing most of the work I lose respect for the developers.

Well some of the mod authors are getting asked to help develop the game. I respect the developers for acknowledging their weaknesses and not being afraid to ask for help implementing the things they want to see in the game.

[Mark Watton]

51 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

Well some of the mod authors are getting asked to help develop the game. I respect the developers for acknowledging their weaknesses and not being afraid to ask for help implementing the things they want to see in the game.

Hell yeah.

[SCHPETZE]

6 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

It'd probably need to be the kind of feature that the player can turn off. There's already a chunk of the playerbase that complains about travel times in the game, so they probably aren't going to be thrilled about more delays getting added. Likewise, many players don't like to lose their stuff, and losing stuff at sea is a recipe for disaster because not everything floats.

As for the maintenance thing, I could see it potentially working. However, there's nothing else in the game that really requires maintenance like that in order to keep working, and it's not really ideal to have the boat require maintenance but other mechanical things not take that into account. And in regards to the concept of maintenance, it does make sense for a realistic survival game, but the more time the player has to sink into keeping stuff maintained so that it works is time the player doesn't have to spend on other activities, like completing the story, exploring, hunting, etc. It'd be the kind of feature that takes a lot of work to implement in order to keep the game consistent, and the kind of feature that probably needs a toggle in the settings.

I mean yeah, toggle is an obvious important feature to allmost everything.. 

[SCHPETZE]

6 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

By default, 97.5% of the world is land, which means that 2.5% is ocean. So you'll run into an ocean eventually, if you explore far enough, assuming that you weren't lucky enough to have one near spawn. Most of the world's water will be freshwater though.

That being said, boiling saltwater has never been implemented in vanilla, as of the time of this writing anyway. So I'm a little confused on where you're getting the following statements:

The oceans are there, just not prevalent by default because aquatic content isn't fully fleshed out yet, and having large swathes of water filled with nothing and having little gameplay options doesn't really make for a fun experience. "The content not being created yet" isn't the same thing as "The devs made the content and then removed it to bottleneck the player".

I wouldn't be surprised if they added the ability to boil saltwater down into salt someday, but I really doubt it's a development priority right now. In the meantime, there are mods that add such a feature.

Incidentally, there's also a mod for this right now: https://mods.vintagestory.at/walkabledeck

Nice but still, wouldn't hurt to be base game