TheBrigadier95 Posted October 8 Report Posted October 8 Il go into my idea for skill progression and quality system. Quality Rating System: I played a few games with this feature , Star wars Galaxies and Life is Feudal. Both games had this deep quality system, and it directly impacted the final outcome of the crafted items players were making. Depending on if VS adds Skills/character progression that would also impact your quality chance. Example 1. a simple action like taking low Quality Cobblestone and building a cobblestone block, that block would fall within a quality threshold, and if you had skills add a % to boost the final outcome quality. It would then give you a block that may or may not be stronger or weaker then others. This could cause inventory clutter but we could stack various blocks within themselves and you can see each different quality item of the same type without taking each their own slot in the inventory. or maybe they combine automatically to give a rounded up final number. for Example a quality 50 and 25 would give a 40 or something. the game has some features similar that i love! like the fertility of soil or the fruit bush/trees its really close! Example 2. We have 2 flint stone and 2 sticks from a tree, 1 of each is of low quality and the others high. take the 2 high quality and craft a knife, the knife would be 50 or more quality based on skill or material, and if you took a 25 quality flint and 50 quality stick then the final quality would be around 40 and the final stats would reflect this. (could have only a few stat changes soo its not a huge overhaul maybe 1-49 is low quality 50-79 is good quality and 80-100 is perfect quality, those 3 have stat changes and this way it wont be over demanding. we could have different visuals low quality would look rough. low quality food would give little or no benefit high quality would be the opposite longer satiety times bigger bar fill up etc, so a good quality fish would be better then low. and if you were decent level cooking then add a bonus too final quality. keeping in line with the tier system maybe a perfect 100 quality tier 1 item can act like a tier 2 but maybe capped on durability or something for balancing. TL:DR skills effect character output, everything has a quality, higher quality better things. thanks for reading.
LadyWYT Posted October 8 Report Posted October 8 Welcome to the game and forums! 1 hour ago, TheBrigadier95 said: Quality Rating System: I played a few games with this feature , Star wars Galaxies and Life is Feudal. Both games had this deep quality system, and it directly impacted the final outcome of the crafted items players were making. Depending on if VS adds Skills/character progression that would also impact your quality chance. Here's the thing though: those games are also built and balanced around that kind of gameplay and progression. Vintage Story very much isn't. How good a tool is or isn't is mostly related to the materials it's made from, and in certain cases whether or not the player took time to utilize other finishing processes such as quenching or sharpening. If the player wants a better tool, they need to seek out better materials rather than grind an arbitrary skill number. Same goes for building materials--not all are created equal, and some are better than others for certain things; there's also the plumb-and-square for making blocks even stronger by reinforcing them with appropriate materials. In contrast, the system you seem to be suggesting requires the player to invest their time in grinding out arbitrary numbers to get better blocks and gear, rather than taking advantage of their actual game skill and knowledge to acquire better materials to make things. That kind of system tends to work better for MMOs or other games intended to be primarily multiplayer, where it's ideal to keep the player playing for as long as possible. But it doesn't really work so well for a game balanced more around singleplayer and small multiplayer groups, where the general goal is to reward the player for leveraging actual gameplay skills and knowledge. 1 hour ago, TheBrigadier95 said: Example 1. a simple action like taking low Quality Cobblestone and building a cobblestone block, that block would fall within a quality threshold, and if you had skills add a % to boost the final outcome quality. It would then give you a block that may or may not be stronger or weaker then others. This could cause inventory clutter but we could stack various blocks within themselves and you can see each different quality item of the same type without taking each their own slot in the inventory. or maybe they combine automatically to give a rounded up final number. for Example a quality 50 and 25 would give a 40 or something. the game has some features similar that i love! like the fertility of soil or the fruit bush/trees its really close! Inventory clutter is also a major drawback in a game like VS, where inventory space is a premium resource. I don't think many players will be particularly thrilled about having cobblestone made of the same materials, that doesn't stack because the quality isn't the same. Block durability also isn't really a concern outside of PvP/anarchy servers, since there's not really anything in the game that breaks blocks, aside from the player. You mention block stacking in a single slot to combat the clutter, however, that's still going to be a rather clunky system for something that doesn't really offer much gameplay value, and I'm not really sure how feasible it would be to actually code(that seems like it could be rather clunky as well). 1 hour ago, TheBrigadier95 said: Example 2. We have 2 flint stone and 2 sticks from a tree, 1 of each is of low quality and the others high. take the 2 high quality and craft a knife, the knife would be 50 or more quality based on skill or material, and if you took a 25 quality flint and 50 quality stick then the final quality would be around 40 and the final stats would reflect this. (could have only a few stat changes soo its not a huge overhaul maybe 1-49 is low quality 50-79 is good quality and 80-100 is perfect quality, those 3 have stat changes and this way it wont be over demanding. Here's another problem--a vanilla flint knife is worth 150, if you make it with a bone handle. A vanilla copper knife is worth 300 points. The durability increase is one of the major incentives to upgrade your tools from stone to metal, since the metal will last a decent bit longer compared to the stone. If the "perfect quality" suggested here tacks an additional 100 durability onto the flint knife, then you suddenly have a flint knife that has the same durability as baseline copper, so there's not as much reason for the player to invest the time and resources into the metal tools when the stone tools are just as good. On the other hand, if you're suggesting that the "perfect quality" for a flint knife would be 80-100 points of durability, you're actively making the best version of the reworked tool worse than what the original iteration of said tool was. And there's already a good handful of players that complain about tools breaking too fast already. There's also the question of...what exactly are the numbers supposed to look like for other materials? An extra 100 durability is a significant upgrade for a stone tool, but is nothing when it comes to iron or steel. Overall, this kind of system is really best handled via mod. That way the players that really desire this kind of gameplay can have such, without changing the game for everyone else in the process. There's already at least a couple that do a decent job of adding this kinds of skills and effects to the game: XSkills and Prosequor. https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/44074 https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/68368
Rainbow Fresh Posted October 8 Report Posted October 8 2 hours ago, LadyWYT said: [...] and in certain cases whether or not the player took time to utilize other finishing processes such as quenching or sharpening. To focus a bit more on this rather small side node - I could see a quality system existing in theory, one that works for vintage story. It would naturally not be based on arbitrary numbers that outweigh a player's every move. They would also not apply to materials or simple crafted results from such materials like blocks. The only place I could see this fitting is also the only place currently in the game requiring a semblence of skill to achieve while currently having a rather frustrating "mere number" (RNG) system attached to it: Smithing equipment. I have recently been playing Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 alot and rather like the smithing system of the game; it is simple enough (and get rather repetitive once you know what you are doing) but tl;dr the point is that the quality of the smithed blade/axe/weapon is based off of how well you did during the smithing process, tracking whether or not you overheated the metal, whether or not you hammered it while it was too cold and how well spaced out and balanced on all parts/both sides of the workpiece your swings were. Granted this only works because of the game-ified overall approach to smithing where you just heat 3 sections of the workpiece and essentially magically hammer a metal stick into a sword and wouldn't apply to VS's 3D voxel system; but something along those lines could be added alongside more forgiving failure in quenching - doing things fast and right gives a pristine result with best stats, making mistakes or it taking damage during quenching give degraded quality. 1
TheBrigadier95 Posted October 8 Author Report Posted October 8 Thanks !! Both of you are very much correct!! I agree could JUST be a mod. ("Steps on previous suggestion")
Mac Mcleod Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 I value the fact that you develop real skill under the current system. For example, when clayforming, I used to take many more steps to make the same items. I can now make clay lamps in 19 steps without changing from the 3x3 brush which has cut about a third off the time of making each clay lamp. When smithing, I used to both take more steps (chewing up my hammer), move things in the wrong direction, and deleting bits accidentally. I've slowly improved the process of making sheers to where they probably take half the number of hits. With an artificial skill system, I'd have to restart artificially unskilled in each new world. It would actually be less immersive as it gamerfied crafting with skill levels and skill level level-ups. just imho.
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