cjc813

Fam, I'm playing on a $500 laptop with integrated graphics. Coming back from RA, I dropped from Low to Ultra Low just to make it home in a reasonable amount of real-world time. I'm also torn by the distance between story locations; much of chapter 2 I've spoiled and looked up already, but I still want to head to the other locations; so much of the narrative is told environmentally, and people tend not to share those environmental details when they're posting online. So I want the "Journey," and the experience, but I don't want to spend the next real-life week or two preparing for and working through the content. So I'm tempted to just fly there in creative... butttt... I want to *experience* the story, so I wanna elk-up and travel. But that takes a ton of time... and so on. It's a dilemma.

Massive spoilers, obv. Stop reading and go play if you haven't already experienced most of the story. But, having spoiled for myself (but not yet played) Chapter 2, I've been thinking a ton about the lore and how it might all fit together. I've got some rough hunches/theories that I wanna ramble about. I might not have the details 100% correct (esp. re: The Lens and the chapter 2 content), since I'm currently piecing together what I've Googled, and I don't currently have time to play chapter 2. (I'm debating just creative-mode-flying to the Lazaret, etc. But I kinda want to experience "The Journey," so...) I also don't have the time/energy for a more organized writeup, so this will be very speculative and rambly, but here we go. Let's talk first about Eldritch themes, which we know Vintage Story is inspired by. Just how deep the Lovecraftian roots of this game's story go isn't clear; is the story just borrowing thematically here and there or is it a whole-ass Eldritch story? Not yet clear, but my gut tells me that the cosmic horror elements of this narrative go a lot deeper than we currently see (which, itself, is very Eldritch). Couple things we can pull away from Tyron and Luke's Eldritch inspirations. One: to an extent, this story isn't going to make logical sense, and at certain points we're probably going to have to pull away from firm, logical theories, the kind of which we would craft around, say, a hard sci-fi story. This story is a good bit more mystical, I think, and perhaps even a bit timey-wimey (for any Whovians reading). The unease of Eldritch horror stems largely from things that are cosmic and beyond human comprehension. I think, ultimately, a lot of Vintage Story is going to have a "beyond mortal comprehension" vibe. Two: where are the gods of vintage story? (Dave!? lol, Dave the Elder God, imagine that! ) If Vintage Story is full-on Eldritch, then malevolent, cosmic entities are at play. Not much is said about it/them in the current lore, but my gut tells me that at least one is there. (And he's underground.) Couple times where gods are mentioned: when you're talking to the trader, asking about drifters (or maybe just the monsters of VS in general), he says that these creatures are cursed by God/gods for their hubris, essentially. So, at the very least, deities are believed-in in the VS world, and there's this association with evil and the underground. (More about drifters in a minute.) Second is in the story of "The Morning," which is a whole other narrative ball of wax. I want to do a whole post about Bearfirth at some point. But, essentially, she digs deep underground and what does she find? Seems to be a g-dang elder god, with whom she makes a pact: power, in exchange for her loyalty. https://www.vintagestory.at/stories/storyexcerpt-themorning.html/ Now, this story could be a myth written by humanity emerging from the wake of its rotten apocalypse, so it might not all be historically accurate, so to speak, but it is very interesting, no? The suggestion that there is a deity beneath the earth willing to bestow a powerful madness on anyone devoted to him? We see something also interesting in Blind Bat Rickhart; He finds *something* down there that's metal, and it seems to peer into his soul. Again, how much of this is myth/folklore of a re-emerging humanity, and how much is *true* isn't clear. But again, there's another suggestion that there's something evil deep beneath the earth. Talking about the underground, we also can't ignore The Rot and the quarantine efforts lead by Jonas. Which also ties in, I think, somehow, to the appearance of monsters underground. During the accounts of The Rot, I don't *think* drifters are mentioned; at least, they aren't mentioned often. The people underground were more worried about starving than anything. But *now?* After the use of the machine? The underground is just chock full of abominations. And the deeper you go (i.e. closer to the god?), the more horrifying they get. Coincidence? [Potential inconsistency: Bearfirth flees underground to *escape* from the monsters. Not sure what to make of this.] We can also talk about the monsters in detail, but I want to chew on it a bit more first, look closely at the models of the new mobs, and probably play Chapter 2, before I say more. I will say this, though, especially about drifters -- I don't think they're organic. They seem almost like they're made of metal (and maybe cloth/flax?), almost as though they're mechanical material come to life. (Are we dealing with a medieval, metal, mechanical time god and his abominations?) Let's talk for a second about rot and rust, too. What happens to metal when left to the ravages of time? What happens to *flesh*? See!? I think The Rot was/is more of a temporal curse than it was a biological plague, where living things grew necrotic and began to, well... rot. And I think "rust" is a sort of analogue. In both cases, time is affecting the bodies of these creatures in an *unnaturally fast* way. (Though, the bodies of the monsters seem, themselves, unnatural, so there are differences, too.) But, I think there's something there. I also think this ties into the prima materia somehow. This material seems to relate to autonomy, energy, and time. It's used in the automatons, in temporal gears, in power generation, and in the "Salvation" machine. It also seems to relate to your immortality and respawning as a seraph. Narratively, it could just just be "essentially magic," or it may end up being more well defined. I guess we'll have to see. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prima_materia Lastly, what about the Lens? The Lens seems to be how Jonas got a lot of his inspiration/ideas. Did he make it? Find it? This might be revealed in parts of Chapter 2 I haven't played yet, as I know it's... YOU KNOW WHERE, but... I haven't been able to Google much about it. For the sake of time, I'll stop there. Though I will mention Blind Bat Rickhart as well as that one Jonas journal/letter again, and simply say: In the narrative, scrying through time/reality is an established theme. Here again, something is going on, and I think all these things are related. TYING IT ALL TOGETHER. TL;DR. ETC. Long post short: I think Jonas somehow brought about the apocalypse in Vintage Story by dabbling in cosmic matters he couldn't understand/control/predict. I think he was smart from birth, but his real progress started when he got ahold of the Lens, and that's when all the cosmic/Eldritch shit started happening. I think he drew the attention of a malevolent deity (a deity somehow related to metal, rust, and time), and that deity is ultimately responsible for *everything.* I think the deity noticed Jonas and our world, and creeped his way in. I think the deity looks back when the lens is used. I think it caused the rot, and influenced Jonas's plan to move humanity underground. I think it influenced "The Project," corrupted Jonas's automatons, and influenced humanity toward the big, cataclysmic event. (Jonas notes how everyone seems super fervent about the Salvation machine/project, and it *scares* him.) I think the machine was/is a way for this god to ultimately influence/control our world somehow, I think the machine still exists underground, and I think that's what caused (or at least made worse) temporal disturbances, monsters, and so on. I think *that* is the sense in which this elder god is underground; he's somehow tied to the machine itself, and... I think he's still there, and I think *he* is the threat that Tobias is so afraid of. But hey... that's *just* a theory... a gam... anyway. Gotta go to work now.

Which raises a brazillion more questions about the echo chamber and who/how it was built. We know Jonas built the bells, but him assisting with the echo chamber itself isn't stated. Matter of fact, one of the logs mentions Jonas almost as though he wasn't directly involved.

Looks like someone beat you to it. Womp womp. Seems pretty thorough, too. https://docs.google.com/document/d/104QhqbAe6EF5M4KWuBieBhchOZiWhe8-uMcoVwz4PKI/edit

Fascinating... so what if we find ourselves in a position where we have to shut down this machine to save the world, but in doing so we have to give up our immortality? That'd be a pretty neat story beat. (From a game mechanic standpoint, we'd still want the player to respawn. But from a narrative perspective, it'd be pretty cool.) [I need to go to bed. This game's story is just... I'm hooked. It's so good.]

OH, AND THAT ONE MESSED UP ROOM WITH ALL THE CRAP COMING OUT OF THE WALLS AND CIELING! It almost looked like the rust world warped in and then got stuck or something. I think it's in the noble's area? I think you mentioned it elsewhere, too. There's a lot of stuff like that where things just seem otherworldly/messed up/weird. The destruction seems worse than normal wear and tear. The environmental storytelling seems to suggest something cataclysmic happened. Reckon it had to do with them setting off the salvation machine?

@LadyWYT you were responding while I was writing my edit and my 5th point. How have your thoughts on the "salvation engine" and the green material evolved in the 10 months since you first finished the RA?

Gonna necro the heck outta this thread. I've had VS lore on the brain hard today, and, honestly, there's not enough discussion about the lore and the RA. Once I play through the story up thru chapter 2, I'm half tempted to write up a deep dive interpretation/summary of everything. Anywho... a few thoughts/questions. 1.) How cool would it be to restore/rebuild the RA? IDK how hard it would be to do with mods and/or creative mode, but that'd be a hell of a thing to see in engine. 2.) What IS the RA, exactly? It's that big brown block thing in the middle of the central room, right? Did the folks who built the surrounding structure build it or discover it? The implications are very interesting. My interpretation is that it was discovered/excavated and that the structure was built around it for study. If that's the case, who/what put it there? 3.) Was Jonas involved in all of this? Is this where he got so much of his knowledge? Tobias's letters talk about how his tech grew rapidly, seemingly out of nowhere, just in time for the "salvation machine," or whatever. This all seems to coincide. How does it all fit together? 4.) What's going on at the bottom level of the RA building? Were they digging it out, or is all that dirt and crap from where the upper levels collapsed over time? It looked like there were the remains of pillars down there, which suggests that the wooden floors were held up by them until the pillars crumbled. Which suggests they were done digging. Did something catastrophic happen that destroyed the ground down there, or is that just debris fallen from centuries of disrepair? 5.) It's pretty clear at this point that the old alchemist in the recording is Tobias, right? I thought Jonas at first, butttt.... 6.) I think the prime material and/or gears and/or green gas/liquid/metal is clearly tied to being a Seraph somehow. I even think it explains your immortality. This dawned on me when I died in the RA and was descending back down the ladder. I was glowing (as you do upon respawn) with an eerie, otherworldly *bluish green* light. Just like the gears and the machines in the engineering room. (The same gears you use to set your respawn point and restore your temporal stability.) This material seems to tie directly into temporal distortion, the machinery, the salvation machine/project, and the seraphs. This material is also clearly inside the eidolon. My theory is that this material was used in all of Jonas's tech, including the salvation project, which apparently created the seraphim, somehow (and for some reason) moved them through time, and also explains their powers (immortality, superhuman strength and speed, greenish/blueish skin, etc.). Further, if you look at the color schemes of the tapestries dealing with temporality, the seraphim, and the salvation machine/project... you'll notice a familiar color. This material is tied to *everything* related to your superhuman nature and seems heavily related to the rust world, too.

BLASPHEMER! HOW DARE YOU MENTION THE OTHER BLOCK GAME!

make a bunch of flint spears if you want to kill them all. the wolves might not be able to get to you, so like the other person said, focus on the bowtorn (big skeleton shooty boy) first. A few flint spears should bring him down. You'll hear him scream when he sees you, then about a second later he'll fire. If you get the timing down, you can dodge most of his attacks. If you get too low on health, fall back and heal up.

Finished RA with pretty minimal spoilers beforehand. Holiest of cows in all of India... that was phenomenal. So much fun. I was *not* expecting a dungeon of that scope out of a little block game, nor was I expecting them to pull off environmental storytelling and atmosphere the way they did. It's pretty insane. Gonna move on to the next location next weekend, probably. This time I'll make sure to bring more than a few slices of pie to eat.

Haven't gotten far enough for my first elk yet, but this is super disappointing to hear. Sounds like elk have the same problem as horses do in that other game. I ended up never using them because once you hit a forest, river, or ravine the mount is practically useless. Here's hoping VS can eventually make mounts viable unlike that other game.

I, on the other hand, will 100% ruin it. He means dig a big hole and then chase them into the big hole. It's super helpful for a variety of herding/hunting/domestication.

Few hundred hours in and have literally never found halite. I always buy it.

I could have sworn we were getting leashes for domesticated animals, but I can't seem to find anything? Am I overlooking it? Did it not get implemented?

Bruh, sometimes a crap ton spawn within like a minute. They're easy enough to work around, even without pre-made defenses, because as long as you stay moving, they're not going to hit you, but it's still not super great. Found myself in a situation where I decided to just wait out a storm. Was blackguard in full iron chain. Offhand shield. Temp storm was coming at night so I laid out a ton of torches. As soon as the storm hit, it started raining and put out most of the torches. I had a lantern in front of and behind my base, and a trader to the side. That was all my light. Within the first minute or two, there were at least a dozen bowtorn behind my base. Tried to go after them. Each one I chased managed to get far enough into the darkness that I didn't follow. Probably could have dropped my shield for a lantern, but I didn't want to risk it. I just chased 2 or 3 and then decided to camp in my base. Nothing else seemed to be spawning. I'm all for new tactics and stuff, and honestly think individual bowtorn are really too easy (they warn you before firing and as long as you move, you're fine). But, even so... having *that* many spawn isn't super fun?

agreed. love that they added bowtorn, and they're actually pretty fun to fight, but fiddyleven of them spawning during a temporal storm is excessive.

same. one night it just stayed light all night long. then, the next night, it stayed twilight until like midnight, and then got pitch black out of nowhere. before that, on another world, i kept also kept having random bouts of darkness in the middle of the day, lasting for maybe 3 to 5 seconds. was actually kinda neat.

Lmao, can you *imagine* the salt if people started being hunted down by entire packs of wolves? It's a clever idea, but honestly... it doesn't sound fun to me. I rather like that wolves eventually stop being a threat within the first year. (Once you get leather/gambeson wolves are trivial). It gives you a sense of progression. And I think that instead of development time being spent on wolf pack AI, I think it's more important to continue adding new/different monsters to the game. I do think it'd be better if angry animals didn't follow you into water, though.

lol, what? I've played for close to 200 hours and literally never had sticks and rocks not stack on their own. Perishable items, yes, but that's the only time I've seen it. What version of the game are you playing?

I will for the sake of curiosity. I'm already prospecting just fine, but I want to understand how it works. I also don't think you said much to address my questions, other than describing something that sounds similar to what I discussed a little bit further down in my post. Thanks for responding, though.

Ok, so here's what I understand, based on the Wiki and on @Streetwind's guide, etc. You don't really need to understand the number exactly, just understand that if it's higher, your odds are better. Density search tells you about the column above/below the first block you broke in your search. The results don't guarantee ore will be there, they just give you an estimate of how likely it is to spawn. The numerical result is in parts per 1000 blocks, not parts per 100 (i.e. percent) Okay, cool. So you don't need to correct me on any of that, please. But... here's my question: out of every1000 blocks... what... exactly? I guess the number could mean "out of 1000 blocks, X blocks have the chance to generate ore Y." i.e., a cassiterite reading of 0.15%o, for example, would mean that out of 1000 blocks, 0.15 bocks could possibly generate cassiterite. First, let's convert 0.15%o into a more intuitive number. If we're only going to find 0.15 of something out of every 1000 searches, how many searches do we have to do before we're almost guaranteed to find one? 0.15 multiplied by what is 1? About 6.6. So we multiply 1000 by 6.6 as well and end up being able to say "that's about one block out of every 6.6k blocks." So, if we go back to our "only this many blocks have a chance to spawn ore," we can pretty easily tell that this isn't what it means. Only one (on average, in aggregate) blocks in 6.6k blocks could even POSSIBLY spawn as cassiterite, you'd end up searching dozens of thousands of blocks, and you might find one or two. That doesn't match experience. However... You could interpret a 0.15%o cassiterite reading to mean, "out of every 1000 blocks, you will, on average, find 0.15 cassiterite blocks." Or, "you'll probably find about 1 cassiterite block in every 6.6k blocks you search in this area." Just some quick math, here. Node search mode, by default, goes 6 blocks in every direction, even diagonal. (I just tested this in creative.) In other words, every time you node search, you get results 6 blocks up, 6 down, 6 north, 6 south, 6 east, and 6 west. That ends up being a 13x13x13 block cube. Soooo... if you are digging straight down, all the way to the mantle, and then prospecting every 6 blocks as you go back up, you're going to be searching a 13x13x120ish (with normal worldgen) column. For the sake of simplicity, let's say it's a 13x13x100 column. That's just under 17,000 blocks. And most of us know what'll happen if you search 13x13x100 blocks underneath a "high" cassiterite reading. If you *don't* get positive hit on node search, you're unlucky af. And with each positive hit, you're probably going to find at least a handful of ore blocks once you marco-polo your way to them. So that "one in 6.6k, on average" interpretation of "High Cassiterite 0.015%" seems to too low. It really seems like there is *more* than one in 6.6k (on average, not guaranteed, I *know*). So what gives? Anybody know? Am I doing math wrong somewhere? Is that number telling us something else about the probability of finding ore in an area? Do I need to stop overthinking it and just play the darn game? What does everyone think?

Really starting to like you two. When I read your posts, I usually end up understanding the game better. Thanks for the helpful, thoughtful answers.

I feel like the answer's pretty obvious, but I wanna be 100% sure before I devote dozens of hours this week to yet another new world... I wanna check out all the new stuff y'all are talking about, so I'm bout to download rc8. BUT, if I start a new world on the release client, will I 100% be able to move that world over once 1.20 goes live, or should I just keep chugging on my 1.19 world(s) until release? Any chance of something breaking?

Can anyone explain exactly how density search works? I know it's supposed to be at least 3 blocks between samples, but no more than 16 between samples, but for me that only seems to work if blocks are in a straight line. How do you reliably get propick results if you don't have 9 blocks in a row? Easiest way I've found is to dig out a 9 block line and just prospect every 4th block, but -- to OP's point -- that gets tedious. I'm a couple hundred hours in across multiple worlds, so I have an okay understanding of how it all works. And I think overall the prospecting mechanic is super interesting, but I still dread prospecting early on when I'm working with flint shovels and only a small supply of copper starting out. Is there a better way that doesn't take as much time and/or durability?