CastIronFabric

I am reading your reply and struggling a bit to put it all together could you do me a favor and maybe number all of this so i can put it together as it relates to what you are replying to I am not the best at reading comprehension or conveying concepts to others to be fair. My underling point is, dont you think you can have the same level of engagement and excitement WITHOUT having interuptions on your path

sorry I asked this question and I should not have, it was my fault for bringing it up. Lets please get back on the core topic of 'interruption', I do not want to discuss what is or is not survial game here in this thread. Again, my fault. thanks for understanding

how would a modded minecraft be different from a survial standpoint than just playing vintage story with hostile set to passive?

1. I want to make this extremely clear, I am not suggesting "mistaking engagement with satisfaction" is a defect. I do it all the time myself. 2. have you played Planet Crafters by chance? 3. If you can, can you explain why you think interruptions specifically is a requirement for your desired game play as you have described and why it could not be manifested in a different way. So for example, a world can push back on your progress without interruptions. Interruptions are really only real time RNG within an RNG moment. Does that make sense? So for example, lets say you needed to do X in order to progress and that X had a TON of randomness to it and is highly unpredictable. What if that moment of randomness was a place you go to instead of a place that comes to you randomly. aka NOT RNG within RNG if that makes sense? can you elaborate because i am honestly curious. Basically what I am saying is this: isnt Resonance Archive challenges better than randomly interrupting your work at base? ADDED: I think its also helpful to distinguish that RNG and 'Interruption RNG' are two very different things within the context of my 'thesis'

agreed, which is kind of my point. Its the problem solving exercise that is enjoyable. So for example Planet Crafters, all the same amount of engagement, same amount of problem solving, etc. all have the same emotions of trying to solve a issue BUT..none of this 'interruption' stuff. make sense?

what specific crafting/building/block game with tons of things to make and build would you suggest then? Lets me honest here though, if you play a VS playthrough until end game, 90% of that game play when it comes to monsters is not exactly much of a challenge is it? its more like dealing with an ant problem in the kitchen or sometimes stopping what you are doing to sleep thru a storm, so clearly for people who play this game alot there is something else that they are compelled to. Lets be level here.

I am glad you read my detailed explanation as to why that is. Its fairly clear once you step back and read those points I wrote. The evidence is fairly obvious in those details I gave (Part 1 was very obvious in fact). I think maybe you just were not fully thinking thru what you were saying, I hope my reflection on your words helps. I would imagine looking back on it now that the argument of 'we can change how temporal storms work but we can not make them not global because the developers want it that way' is a bit circular and contradictory, we all do it sometimes.

well to be fair I am playing on a 1.20.12 which I forgot about. I did not alter the settings on Explorer mode either so maybe they have changed that finally

I am confused as to who specifically is having a problem. I think you are saying your better half is having a problem as well as the people running the server, meaning you are the only one who is not having an issue with the server? also, how do you know specifically the server is fine? regardless, when a server is added to the equation its usually the source, or the internet connection. By no means is that the overwhelming majority of cases but it is the 'usual'. Does whoever is having an issue have the exact same issue while NOT connected to the server? I do not think the size of the game save file would matter in this specific case but it would be nice to replicate a game file locally that is somewhat large

The game by reasonable measures is already a success. Speaking personally its the only game I own in the past 13 years that is NOT on Steam. They are not on Steam by choice despite the fact that they could easily bring in a ton more players and they know it.

yeah I know, and what is your point in that exactly?

your game progress ends after 4 hours max, its not 'stalled' its over until you find a clay deposit and all you do then is run around with flint items and a ton of reed baskets. I think the argument that you can realistically play this game without finding a clay deposit is flat out absurd. (EDIT: or more specifically that the game can be realistically played by getting most of your clay by panning) I think I am done here, I need to go for a walk anyway

I do not know what 'considered' to be actually means specifically in this context, I do not think there is an authority on that question. I make storage vessels first, pretty much every video I have ever seen that makes suggestions suggests storage vessels first and it makes sense because you are going to need storage long before you find BOTH grains and berries in quantities worth spending the time to cook in the early game. However, lets not get off point here. The point is, regardless of what you clay form first, within about 4 hours of game play you are going to need to find a clay despot or else you will be playing with flint everything and nothing other than reed baskets and no doors and there is no way around that.

I would put a cooking pot lower on that list to be frank. The first problem that is going to really be self evident is storage (even more so if you are panning), I always make a storage vessel first both for storage and to prevent spoilage. That all said, lets all get realistic here. Regardless of how you shake it, within the first 4 hours of game play you are going to be stuck in the flint age if you do not have a clay deposit and there is not any realistic way around it if we are all being honest.

last night 64 clay got me a 1 cooking pot, 1 complete storage vessel and 1 incomplete storage vessel. Nobody is disputing that you can find clay while running around looking for other things, we are disputing that you can realistically get enough clay to be useful by panning. panning for copper? yes because you only need 40 total to get into the copper age. However you need much MORE than 125 clay to get to the copper age and even more than that to get storage that is useful. I have never seen, heard of or play with on multiplayer anyone who sets out to get clay from panning because they have not found a clay depsoit.

Before I begin, I want to mention that setting Hostility to Passive does NOT make the monsters attack you if you attack them, animals yes, monsters no. I think this really needs to be fixed/changed. Also, some of you have read my main point on what I am about to say and I am not trying to be clever by hiding it to its conclusion, I am just presenting it in a different way that might resonate better. So last night I played in Normal mode and this is what happened to me and why I do not do it nor will not do it unless on multiplayer: ---I got up in the morning and went to an area I was thinking of moving to as a permanent base, while looking around at various site locations I got attacked by a moose, then a bear. By the time the pig attacked me I had to go back to starter base and wait out because it was nightfall and I was starving. Guessing on the timeline I would guess I spent about 5 mins studying various areas in that location for a place to camp and about 30 mins avoiding, running and waiting back at my base. Mentally I basically lost that 5 mins of concentration on something I actually wanted to do and 30 mins doing something I did not want to do. Now I have to do the concentration all over again because that thought process was interrupted and not stored in my brains hard drive. (or actually kill that save file and never do this again) I do not find this satisfying. I struggle to understand why people find that satisfying, I suspect there is an answer to that quandary but I have yet read one that is really very solid. I can manufacture one that might be solid and here why I think some people do in fact enjoy it, bear with me on this possible explanation, I do not consider it bullet proof and parts of it are actually rather hard for me to explain. Mistake engagement with satisfaction -- Engagement: The brain is engaged in a goal (reward) that it wants and its engaged in the challenge on how to get it. While in that state of mind WHAT the challenge is does not really matter that much, brain is given the possibility of a reward it wants and presented with a challenge on how to get it and the brain goes into full on GO mode and frankly gets obsessed about the goal without ever pausing to ask why its done this way in the first place or is it really as satisfying as it could be. In short making it hard to distinguish obsession with actual satisfaction. Caveat : I do this, so I want to make clear I am not suggesting I am somehow immune to doing the things I mention here, I absolutely do. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If anyone has a better answer to why interruption of that level is satisfying I would love to hear it. Now on to how I think it could be done better. Now on to how I think it can be made better I would be shocked if there exists any study on the brain or psychology that shows interruption is satisfying, let alone how interruption breaking flow is somehow satisfying. I have heard convincing arguments that randomness is a critical role in game design (by game design I mean all games not just video games). However I think there is a point where interruption goes to far. I think a better solution to interruption and randomness, is planned events/locations. I have played games in which we plan, build, make, organize for weeks before going to a specific place to have our battles (and incidentally test 'randomness' while doing it) and there is no way random attacks come remotely close to that level of satisfying game play. I think far to many building games have a problem with interruptions in a bad way. For this game specifically I am not having it. Thanks for listening

unfortunately you are objectively wrong. PART 1 1. Does the lore mention storms? YES 2. Does the lore mention the storms are GLOBAL? NO 3. Does that make it 'wrong' to make the storms global? NO 4. Does it mean that the lore REQUIRES the storms to be GLOBAL? NO Its fine to suggest its lore breaking to not have storms, it is NOT find to suggest it would be lore breaking to have those storms be GLOBAL. PART 2: The only reason I have read that you have given to explain why storms global are a good thing is because they are required by the lore (which you are wrong on that part) and because the developers made them so. meaning, you are NOT making the argument that global storms are actually fun, you avoided making that point completely, which is why we should all pause and think about that for awhile and a bit deeper CONCLUSION: So in short, you are open to the idea of changing storms but you are absolutely against not making them global because the developers made them global. See the logic contraction here? Because the logic of 'it should be becasue the developers want it to be' would mean EVERYTHING. You could not be selective in what you want to change unless you can read the minds of the developers becasue storms being global IS NOT IN THE LORE

yeah I just looked it up, I thought borax only could be crushed with a pulverizer good to know it just needs a quern.

limestone or chalk is needed to be a great roll at least in my opinion.

1. I do not agree that its a fact about the world. Yes the lore mentions storms but it does not require those storms to be local to your character. 2. 'because its a fact about the world' is not really good argument for 'its good design and I like it like that because it was created as such'. its a logic fallacy I forget which one but basically arguing that 'its good because it was created'. Sure it was created but maybe its not a great creation, maybe it could be better. In short you are making an argument that its good because its been made and its the only thing you have experience thus its awesome. (that is not exactly what I am trying to say but close) ADDED: 'not the fault of the game' is not really relevant to my point. My point is objectively can you say that interruption is FUN..enjoyable. Not 'it must be' but 'is it actually enjoyable'. If its not enjoyable why are we doing it?

Lets break this down a bit. Option 1: you have traveled far from your home and you are deep in a mine getting materials, you see a message that says 'Temporal Storm is imminent'. Now you have to stop doing what you are doing and either A. fight or B. make a small hidy hole and go get some more coffee and wait it out while at the same time cementation furnace has run out of coal. Option 2: Same as above but you decide not go out on that mining trip because you saw the message that it is coming, so basically you are just hanging out doing odds and ends near your base but not really what you want to do. Option 3: you get a message and if you want to you go to the storm, you can get all your fancy gear and go do it. If that is not your jam at the moment then you can not. I know I keep harping on this but I think people are not looking at this objectively. I think they have only tried one kind of beer and they assume its the best not really thinking about the other options seriously. I do not know about you guys but I do not find being interrupted and diverted from what I was doing to be 'fun'

Consider mods that expand the classes, I think Working Class with Xskills is the main one I think which is a good way to make multiplayer experience be different from a single player

not in my opinion, I still think it would be better to just have storms be something you go to instead of it interrupting your work. Its not logical that one would find that feature actually enjoyable to be honest and I am not saying that to be hyperbolic, if one thinks about it objectively it actually does not make sense that it would be fun and engaging

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. What I am trying to convey how something can be fun and engaging and bad design at the same time is really hard to explain but let me try. Lets says somehow you managed to live outside of society 100% and you have never seen a car. Then a replica of a Model T drives up. Well, you are going to think that is the best thing ever, amazing! However, if you have never seen a modern car you are going to be unaware that it can be a LOT better. If (hypothetically) ALL your block building games have a threat that comes to you, how do you know the game design would be better with a 'I go to the threat' instead? I doubt this makes sense, its a hard concept for me to explain

you need about 125 clay. You are stating (for the record for everyone reading this) that its reasonable to get 125 clay by panning before you can even make any storage other than reed baskets. ok, well I am not engaging in that conversation but you are stating that 'for the record'. thanks