CastIronFabric

Imp = improve tools/weapons/armor in Wurm online/unlimited In the game Wurm Online/Unlimited your weapons and tools have quality that is tied to durability and effective use. Now Wurm takes the idea of 'imping' to an extreme but I think the general objective could be done here. Have a few tools for improving both tools, weapons and armor. The better the quality of the tool the better the chance of making an item with that tool will have a better quality AND you can put the tool/weapon/armor in the forge and continue to improve it with various tools. Tools could be cutting knife, wet stone, hammer for example. Wurm has many tools, I think in this game maybe just 4 tools would be fine. In fact, even the subparts of a crafted item (like armor) can also be improved thus increasing the chances of a high quality end product. Wurm also uses quality of ore itself but I think that is more than really needed. As a side note Wurm Online co-creator was the same guy who went on to make that extremely popular block game. just fyi

I personally love the approach they are taking to progression. I am not against skill systems in fact Wurm Unlimited, a game I played for a long time, has 'over 130 skills', however, I like the idea of having the same feeling of progress but having it rooted more in reality (aka, stone age, copper, bronze then steel). That said what I really do NOT like is effectively 'Perk Systems' like Xskills, not a fan. I like the way Wurm does it which is the vast majority of the skills you just get better at the more you do it or automatically unlocks something that you do not go in an 'choose'. I understand the argument for Perk Systems and its a good argument am just not a fan. As a side note to Wurm Unlimited specifically, what makes the skill system palatable is being able to change the skill progression speed so one does not end up grinding just for skill. That balance is usually making it maxed out speed becasue Wurm default skill progression is extreeeeeeeeeemly slow.

I beg to differ a bit. I have seen about 4 or 5 videos of players talking about the difference between VS and MC and in none of the videos does story or lore ever come up. That is not to say story/lore is not ONE of the reasons but I still think the primary reason is the complex crafting/building processes involved. aka I agree with the videos I saw on this question (and yes..before I watched them). Regardless, one thing we both can agree on, for people who want high impact combat and pvp, this is not the game they would select. Tarkov and Arama 3 are two examples of games that are just fine filling that combat/pvp feel for sure. Also, I think we need to stop pretending like the VS story is something like the mini series 1883 or Better Call Saul, maybe lets give that a bit of a rest. I doubt there really is that much to the story, lets me honest here.

again, this is immutable. If you are 'homesteading' (like all players of Vintage Story enjoy doing) if you want to get any materials at all to build your base INCLUDING hitting a sheep to get the sheep into your pin, combat changes WILL affect your game play The idea that there is a large demographic of players of Vintage Story who do NOT like to work on their homestead/crafting is of course absurd. Those features make up the overwhelming majority of this game by a long shot. Additionally the only way combat changes could not affect your gameplay is 1. if its multiplayer and 2. if you have someone else gather nearly ALL your materials, all your clay, all your wood, all your stone, all your ore, oh and ONLY if someone has your back during the early game until you or someone else can build you a home to live in. The need for combat affects everything. You would nearly have to live in a well lite building 100% of your game play in order for combat changes to not affect you. and of course the argument that everyone builds a spear becasue everyone likes combat is of course not only absurd but also circular to the entire argument that there are players who do not want combat because clearly that would be zero given that argument. this entire thread needs to be locked its filled with far to much sophistry

like I said, I do not agree that lore (regardless of where or what those limits are) are NOT what separates VS from MC by any stretch. I have seen many many videos showing the radical difference between those two games and in none of those videos have I see the word 'lore' even used.

fair enough. Although I disagree that the lore of the game is what sets this apart from the other game. If people think its critical to the game experience and the story to take a break and do nothing when a storm comes in I guess who am I to judge. (edit: to be fair that is why you guys are talking about changes). I just need to do something else because I have no horse in this race. I do not agree with that assetment at all, but your point about it being part of some story is a fair point.

I am confused. Are you saying that combat changes will ONLY affect multiplayer and only the majority of players who like to build but never acquire any materials for the building? If so it would be helpful to make that super clear. Because the demographic you are talking about is extreemly small Regarding the fact that I do not think any player in any context would never make a spear and as such all players will be impacted by combat changes, I do not understand your reply to that assertion. and again, 'affect' does not mean negative or positive, it just means well affect.

well I should not go to far down this rabbit hole. I would just suggest for those who are thinking of ideas for the storms they might want to add to the list 'just not have them' and if that is not appealing maybe list why. I will refrain from speaking more on the subject. I know this entire conversation is purely academic by the way.

I do not know exactly what combat changes you guys are talking about but two things. 1. I bet the vast majority of people who play this game play it for the building and crafting not for the combat threats. So for 'those that like to homestead' you are talking about the overwhelming majority of the player base. 2. combat changes affect my acquisition of ALL materials in the game to place any and everything. Clay, dirt, trees, all rocks, all ores, leather, hide, fat, meat, husbandry.. all of it. Its impossible for a combat change to not affect all players. Now I will indulge and point out the word 'affect' does NOT by default mean its a negative impact or a positive impact. Also to repeat, the players who 'like to homestead' are without question the overwhelming majority of Vintage Story players and that should be obvious. To bring this point home a bit, do any of you know anyone who plays VS solo all the way to end game without ever making a spear or amour?

as long as that feature remains a setting I can turn off then I suppose you all can discuss how the storms should be. I would however like to interject a few things. 1. outside of 'lore' would the game be hurt if they just removed storms completely rather than trying to make it work better? 2. speaking for myself, I would not want this game to go in the same direction as 7 Days to Die. I love that game (the older versions) but I personally am not intrested in playing another one with similar sweat and worry. That is just my opinon. 3. I wonder what most people actually DO during a storm.

I think we need to put the 'lore' part of storms on hold for a second and ask ourselves honestly this 'what do people DO during storms'? from a mechanistic standpoint what does storms add to your in game actions and decision trees and does that improve the game play from a mechanical standpoint.

follow up questions. 1. to be clear what you are saying regarding traders is something your read, not something you are applying your own interpretation to given other story events. For a lack of a better way to say this, you read most of this somewhere in the game or in dialogue as it DIRECTLY relates to traders. 2. Do you think the majority of players (naturally meaning more than 50%) are aware of this TRADER SPECIFIC lore in game not personally interpreted lore? The general feel I am trying to get from these questions is this: Do you think the majority of players would feel a deep lacking in game play experience if the traders did not have in game literal lore attached to them or do you think the majority of the players (not all but the majority) simply see traders and NPCs to trade with that that is the end of that.

I disagree completely. we would need to get a survey on that somehow based on a test that prooves what people say is actually their interest. Maybe some test questions or something In fact, lets do that right now. Lore wise, why do traders exists and how did you find out the reason?

If you say so, I do not find buying something on 'faith' to feel good at all, more like terrifiying. That part aside, pretty much all games made these days are nearly impossible to play without watching youtube tutorials. However, I best not get in an argument over it, have fun and good day to you!

In my opinion for this game and really just about any game made in the past 20+ years not doing youtube before buying a game as well as not using youtube to learn how to play is like trying to drive a car without keys. why?

I could be wrong here but if I had to bet I would bet that most players of Vintage Story do not care about the 'lore'. Now by lore I do NOT mean no traders, no ruins, no monsters, I am talking about the 'lore' as in the story or why the traders are there etc. I think the majority of players are cool with having traders and maybe even want them improved but I doubt most people even know the 'lore' regarding why those traders are even there. I also think the majority of players do not care for storms and are really not looking for storms to improve, just go away. I do think most players do want a reason to make good armor, have good weapons, maybe even buff up with Alchemy mod. However, much like MC, I think most people do not come here for the combat. I think most people who really are into combat focused game play likely are playing different games. I bring that up because I think its helpful to know the audience, read the room so to speak. Also, when I played 7 Days to Die more than 10 years ago I felt that a game needed that 'hurry up before its too late tonight!' rush. However when I started to play lets say Stationeers for example or even Planet Crafter I noticed that we do not need to have to have a hidey hole every night in order to have a high urgency cadence, its really just a todo list and if you want to get your todos done then you will have whatever cadence you can handle to get it done. So in my view its actually NOT a game improvement to require the player to run to a hidey hole to stare at a wall for 10 mins doing nothing. Many just think it is because of what many grew up with. Its psychologically hard to step back and say 'yeah, that was awesome back in the day but what if we didnt do that? Maybe what we just think the local buffet in town is the best ever only because its the only one we have ever eaten at (so to speak). What would I do for a game such as this? I would have a 'I go to the hostiles, they do not come to me' policy. So for example, in Wurm, you set up your property deed, get some spirt guards and almost never have to worry about fighting while you are tying to improve all your tools at the forge. I would simplify it even more, just not have hostile NPC come into or spawn in a deeded area..period and done. Finally, I think we all (myself included) greatly under estimate the psychological impact of having our cadence interrupted, be it a cut scene in a AAA game, a phone call in real life, a NPC monster slapping you in the face while you are looking for that one flax fiber. Its actually not healthy and not enjoyable despite us convincing ourself that it is, we are liying to ourselves on that front. Anyway, writing this long winded reply gave me something to do for a bit to keep me out of trouble. Thanks

that is a different conversation I am not interested in. I never said it would 'diminish'. I was addressing that person specific assertion and only that specific assertion. Please do not reply to me again regarding this. I am just asking that is all. Thanks

agreed. I can settle with 'some people like it and thus it needs to be a setting' and not dive into debates over how rather silly it actually is. That said, I hold the position that running home to stare at a wall for 10 mins is actually not fun. Not for TP storms, not for early game monsters, not in this game and not in 7 days to die. If one sets aside their emotions, detach from all take a deep breath and think logically, it makes zero sense that one would enjoy that. That is not to suggest that after such meditation one can not continue to enjoy it regardless however it might give them pause the next time they want to debate someone who thinks its not vital game play.

I didnt say anything about 'core. If you want to homestead you are going to have to get into combat, so any changes in combat will affect your game play. I did not say 'game play in only certian specific cases'. Even if there is a microsecond more time you have to wait in your house to avoid combat because of combat changes then your game play is (as I have said three times now) affected. In fact, lets say your a homesteader, you are several game hours away from your base and you are digging clay. You think changes in combat will not affect your decision to run home or build a temporary base to stare at wall like all the other hard core gamers? yes of course it will impact those decisions now..lets drop this quickly please, its done. I have said what I said and my position on it is immutable

I will refer you to my reply to Vahtapor Allconquer, I am not going to expand or debate this. a change to the combat system will affect everyone regardless of game play focus. That would include even turning hostiles off. So the assertion that a change to combat would not affect people who want to focus on homesteading is false, it would impact all play styles

a change to the combat system will affect everyone regardless of game play focus. That would include even turning hostiles off. So the assertion that a change to combat would not affect people who want to focus on homesteading is false, it would impact all play styles.

fair enough but the problem is not lore, the problem is ruins and translocators which in my personal opinion is a biggy. Even more so when you use Better Ruins mod because I do not think those would still be considered ruins by the game, so big deal.

Here is what I am addressing I am saying, yes, changes to combat will affect people who want to rely on homesteading and engineering. and that should be obvious because you will have to engage in combat thus the changes WILL affect everyone Even if you turn off hositle completely (like i have) it STILL can affect you depending on what the changes are specifically. Your assertion is just false. that is all there is to it I am afraid.

I am not doing that. 'just' not go out at night and stare at a wall for a few mins or run away every time you go out looking for clay? no..combat changes affect all game play.. period. even if you turn off hostility completely depending on the combat changes it could affect your game play. Just getting sheep would involve using combat.

I would take more building options like trains for example before I would take story, lore, fighting monsters, TP storms or TP stability any day of the week. And no, I am not playing 'homo sapiens' mode. Just becasue I do not want the things listed above does not mean I do not enjoy finding and looting ruins and using translocators. dont worry, I just change the settings, I am all set, thank you.