Bears are not relentless murder machines

[Matty Migs]

There, I said it. After sinking a LOT of time into an incredibly intricate and detailed game like this it really irks me that bears behave this way. The amount of wasted time and resources due to the fact that bears will hunt you down and kill you mercilessly as well as all your livestock is absurd. It took me forever to coax my animals into their pens, pens that I thought were safe. Guess not. And it was a polar bear that killed all my sheep. In a temperate zone. Near spawn. You've got to be kidding me. You want challenge, I get that... but this is not it. For a new player just trying to get started its infuriating. The wolves were bad enough... killing you and camping out over your lost loot with their entire family of eight. Surely there has to be another way to bring challenge to this game without wolves and bears acting like Xenomorphs or the friggin Predator. My mom sends me pictures of lazy black bears on their porch eating her garden vegetables all the time. She found one in the garage one day and shouted at it to go away... and it did. In a game where I have to spend almost an entire month tanning leather you'd think the bears would be a bit more realistic. A few more setbacks like the one today with my dead sheep and I just might put this game up for good.

[Thorfinn]

Unlike real bears, at least in the game, your garden vegetables are safe.

I thought maybe you were headed in a different direction -- that bears in the game are not relentless murder machines. Early on, yeah they were a little discouraging, but before too long, you figure out their strengths and weakness and don't play to the former. Yeah, my animal pens look like something out of Jurassic Park but bears are supposed to be good at climbing. I don't even know how aggressive bears are -- a lot of the times I "encounter" them, they are sleeping, or sitting around looking off into the distance, and I either decide I could use the hide and the fat, or we just go our separate ways.

But the lore of the game has things about animals acting unusually aggressive. Or it used to. I assume that's still there, though TBH, I usually skip lore as soon as I realize I've read that one before.

I've never figured out how good bears are at climbing, but a 3-high fence has never let me down yet. Put your individual pens a couple spaces inside that and Bob's your uncle. It could be that polar bears can get over three if you have snow on the ground. Don't know. But then I'd just either go with 4 high, or maybe some overhang, or maybe even try polished stone. I'm pretty sure there must be some way to contain them -- many have talked about their menageries, and how 1,18's despawn after 14 days ruined their zoos.

[Ewil]

I saw that you are discussing the bear mechanics.
I had a post on this some time ago, and here is the link,
and maybe it could be of some help....?
 

 

[Owktree]

From my limited testing the key is the fence.

Bears have a very high climb ability compared to wolves, etc.  But fences stop everything.  However, animals can attack over/through fences.  So full barns are probably best for keeping livestock in.

 

[Thorfinn]

@Owktree, did you check to see if they can get over that with snow, like animals can? And I've definitely had chickens escape a single fence when they end up climbing on top of each other. Doesn't happen with bears, apparently?

@Ewil, thanks, headed to check that out now.

[Maelstrom]

in 1.17 Tyron changed fence mechanics where non-seraphs cannot walk on the top of a fence, including drifters.  It broke my drifter pit in which I had a pit one block deep, lined with fences so drifters could walk over the fence, fall into the pit and be unable to climb over the fence to get out.  In 1.17 drifters stopped walking over the fences.  Same should be the case for animals.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Maelstrom
spelling/grammar

[Thorfinn]

Huh. I guess it was 1.16 when I last cheesed temporal storms. Suppose you could still do it, but you would have to use a 2-high wall with a step up from the outside?

I'm absolutely certain I've seen chickens get out over a fence. They were in a 2-deep pit with a fence around the top. They got on top of one another to get up to the fence, then again to get over the single-high fence. The second level of fences seemed to fix it. Incidentally, am I overly worried about troughs, too? Used to be things could stand on troughs and get out, but that won't work now?

[Owktree]

Chickens do this sort of super-hop thing like rabbits do.  I've seen them get over fences and higher walls than you expect them to.

Most of my fence testing with bears was 1.16 and early 1.17. They definitely were not getting over them (did not check whether snow helped them).

A generic animal trap that worked for me by essentially having some dirt blocks higher than the fence.  They go from the dirt block to the top of the fence and then climb down into a shallow pit from there.  Fences prevent them climbing back out and fences are 2-high on the corners so that the animals if on top of the fence don't simply walk down the fence line.  The bear version was just a bit larger and had a pillar in the center for the seraph to jump to since the "bait" the bears were after is usually the seraph.

Have an image of the creative mode test version.

[Thorfinn]

Interesting. That's more or less how I catch livestock, but with blocks in the corners and without the fence. They happily jump down 2 blocks to get to food.

The castle design looks remarkably similar to a temporal storm shelter I was using back in 1.14 or so. In the corners, do you use slabs stuck to the undersides of the second row of blocks so you can harvest underneath by sitting down? Pit kilns in the outer corners, 'cuz who doesn't love the smell of napalm in the morning? 

[Owktree]

2 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

Interesting. That's more or less how I catch livestock, but with blocks in the corners and without the fence. They happily jump down 2 blocks to get to food.

The castle design looks remarkably similar to a temporal storm shelter I was using back in 1.14 or so. In the corners, do you use slabs stuck to the undersides of the second row of blocks so you can harvest underneath by sitting down? Pit kilns in the outer corners, 'cuz who doesn't love the smell of napalm in the morning? 

It is a temporal storm shelter.  Their are slabs in the corners allowing for a narrow access to the outer parts.  The drifters climb in and cannot climb out.  They do not fit through the narrow gap into the center due to the slabs.  Seraph in middle can toss spears at drifters in the opening and harvest (carefully) ones killed there.  Low ceiling and stones laid in the interior to minimalize chance of a drifter spawning inside.  Haven't done pit kilns in the corners to cook them yet.  (General design is something I borrowed from one of Kurazarrh's videos.)

Edited July 27, 2023 by Owktree
credit where credit is due

[Thorfinn]

Does that still work? I thought under the new spawning rules for storms, it wouldn't.

I'm not quite picturing it from your description. Are you using vertical slabs then? Aligned with the outside edge of your shelter? Or is the narrow gap towards you, not towards the drifters? How do you butcher the ones that start fighting each other and don't die where you can reach them? Or am I not getting the picture?

[Owktree]

Vertical slabs on the outer edge (see image).

Reaching dead drifters at the outer edges is hard/impossible until after the storm.  (And dangerous if another appears while you are trying to do it.)  Since the ones you are attacking usually die in the narrow part they are fairly easy to reach and harvest.  As well as retrieving thrown spears.

As for drifters spawning inside I have had limited issues with it.  I've adjusted things a few times to restrict what I think are the eligible spaces.  All floor spaces have stones placed on them, ceiling is minimal height (except for one spot where I place a lantern before the storm starts)  Most of the walls have tool racks or a basket on them (which I think blocks the square.)  Over the dozen plus storms I've used it I think I've had maybe three drifters spawn inside.

[pizentios]

On 7/27/2023 at 8:49 AM, Owktree said:

Vertical slabs on the outer edge (see image).

Reaching dead drifters at the outer edges is hard/impossible until after the storm.  (And dangerous if another appears while you are trying to do it.)  Since the ones you are attacking usually die in the narrow part they are fairly easy to reach and harvest.  As well as retrieving thrown spears.

As for drifters spawning inside I have had limited issues with it.  I've adjusted things a few times to restrict what I think are the eligible spaces.  All floor spaces have stones placed on them, ceiling is minimal height (except for one spot where I place a lantern before the storm starts)  Most of the walls have tool racks or a basket on them (which I think blocks the square.)  Over the dozen plus storms I've used it I think I've had maybe three drifters spawn inside.

putting stones on the floor solved any issues with spawning for me, I use something very similar for my storms. 

[sushieater]

I agree with you. I observed some bears with creative mode. They go from killing something, taking a brief nap, to killing something else. If you trap them inside a fence, they kill everything that passes by.

For me, the 'solution' is moving south. Nasty bears don't spawn above 20C. With the climate irregularities, you still get get some spawning in cold chunks, but it's bearable (pun intended).

(Moving somewhere with >25C is a no-no, since you will be drowning in hyenas.)

Edited August 1, 2023 by sushieater

[Perlin]

On 7/24/2023 at 9:00 PM, Matty Migs said:

My mom sends me pictures of lazy black bears on their porch eating her garden vegetables all the time. She found one in the garage one day and shouted at it to go away... and it did.

One thing to note is the game is taking place far before the 21st century. Bears back then acted very differently towards people then they do now in our modern age. If you read the Lewis and Clark journals, they describe bear behavior that's very similar to Vintage Story bears. Before bears had to worry about firearms, they would charge a human being on sight, just like in the game. Black bears are only running away from your mother because most bears left alive are conditioned to fear people, this was not always the case.

Even still though, I agree with you. Bears are a little too aggressive, mainly towards livestock. One bear shouldn't be wiping out an entire herd of sheep. However their behavior against players I think is just fine and plenty realistic (in my opinion). They will not always charge on sight either, only if they're hungry. Otherwise they will only be provoked if you get too close.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Perlin