1.20 Story Locations Difficulty

[Lodey]

I'm hoping some Vintarians who have already completed the 1.20 story locations could give some insight into their difficulty without spoilers. I play exclusively in permadeath mode and from what I've absorbed around the story location discussions is that at least one location is particularly challenging. I'm wonding if it's a fools errand to attempt these locations in a world with only one life? If I was well prepared and careful how likely is it I could complete the 1.20 story without dying? For context I have completed the Resonance Archive without dying.

[SlateSlavens]

It's likely possible. But I don't think you're gonna pull it off in the first pass... Every story location takes a different approach. The "major" one is nothing like the RA. It has multiple "tests" you must pass and they can all kill you.

[LadyWYT]

@Thorfinn might be able to offer a better answer than mine, as he plays permadeath and I do not. As for what I experienced and how I would expect it to stack up for those that do play it:

It's probably going to be a rough time. Now to be fair, I did not have the smartest game plan when I tackled the challenges of chapter two, and I think there were a couple of things that might have been overtuned(I played through a couple of versions ago). A highly skilled player could probably manage without dying, but I agree with @SlateSlavens, you're not likely to accomplish it the first time. The content is quite different from chapter two, and while most of it is pretty easy, the challenges that are there make the Resonance Archive look like a tutorial area, in my opinion. For your first playthrough, I'd recommend giving yourself an extra life or two, instead of limiting yourself to just one, to potentially cut down on frustration. That way you don't have unlimited mistakes, but you're not going to potentially lose a ton of progress because you got caught off-guard either. Depends on what you're comfortable with handling.

[Thorfinn]

2 hours ago, Lodey said:

For context I have completed the Resonance Archive without dying.

Using what equipment? And by what kind of a margin? If you can do it in gambeson, copper weapons and half a stack of poultices, probably. Though the challenges are somewhat different, they can also be handled with proper preparation. Unfortunately, there's not much of a hint what proper preparation means, like @SlateSlavens says.

If you can do the RA pre-copper anvil, nothing greater than leather, you I'd give you decent odds, though it's hard to say because you will be using skills that the RA does not require. Ultimately, RA comes down to not much more than your dodging skill and how quickly you recognize patterns. This involves more.

In any event, it is a good idea to upgrade your stuff after the RA. Well, unless you are already in steel. And if you are in steel, I don't believe the RA is very good at predicting the outcome -- that gear is way OP for the first boss. There are a lot more ways to die in the new one. At least I'm guessing there are. I didn't die, but there were a lot of times where I thought I was pretty close. Including death by knockback, which isn't spoiler per se, but maybe spoiler adjacent.

Edited January 10 by Thorfinn

[Lodey]

13 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

Including death by knockback, which isn't spoiler per se, but maybe spoiler adjacent.

I have heard that there's a parkour section with bowtorn. I probably wouldn't attempt the story stuff without iron armor, although I'm not sure if armor helps with fall damage.

[LadyWYT]

10 minutes ago, Lodey said:

although I'm not sure if armor helps with fall damage.

I can confirm that it does not. There is, however, something in the Archive that can mitigate fall damage.

26 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

Unfortunately, there's not much of a hint what proper preparation means, like @SlateSlavens says.

In retrospect, there were a couple of hints of what I was about to get myself into, that I also brushed off as simple narrative set dressing. Very much was not. Not that Vintage Story doesn't exaggerate a bit with its narrative descriptions, but I'm going to start paying more attention to warnings from NPCs and lore documents.

[Thorfinn]

18 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

Not that Vintage Story doesn't exaggerate a bit with its narrative descriptions, but I'm going to start paying more attention to warnings from NPCs and lore documents.

Huh. So all that lore stuff isn't just a click-through EULA?  

Guess I'm going to have to start paying more attention to it, too.

[LadyWYT]

30 minutes ago, Thorfinn said:

Huh. So all that lore stuff isn't just a click-through EULA?  

Guess I'm going to have to start paying more attention to it, too.

It is not. I'm a lore nerd, but even I've had to retrain some of my thinking when it comes to how Vintage Story handles things. While it does give hints, it's still not straightforward in most cases, so you'll have to think about it a bit. There was more than one occasion that I found myself lying dead on the ground thinking "You know, I really should have seen that coming." The Resonance Archive handles things in a similar manner, both with NPC dialogue, documents, and set design; you can figure out some of what you're in for by examining various clues, although the exact meaning may not become obvious until later.

[ifoz]

It would be rough. One certain location has quite a lot of very 'trial and error' parkour, except one wrong button press will send you plummeting to your death.

[Lodey]

6 hours ago, ifoz said:

It would be rough. One certain location has quite a lot of very 'trial and error' parkour, except one wrong button press will send you plummeting to your death.

That's disappointing to hear.

[ifoz]

39 minutes ago, Lodey said:

That's disappointing to hear.

Yeah, that part of the chapter was very confusing and rather unfun for me personally. Spent ages getting through it only to feel like I had cheated because some of the parkour does not feel like it is intended even though it apparently is.
The rest of the chapter is amazing, though.

[LadyWYT]

5 hours ago, ifoz said:

Yeah, that part of the chapter was very confusing and rather unfun for me personally. Spent ages getting through it only to feel like I had cheated because some of the parkour does not feel like it is intended even though it apparently is.

I think if there had been a few more clues on which way the player was supposed to jump in certain areas, it would have been a lot better. The design was very cool, but I was spending too much time as a pancake, so I ended up just skipping half of the parkour and using creative to get through that portion of the story. That being said, I wouldn't want the "correct" route to be too obvious either like it is in some games, because then it doesn't really feel like anything's been accomplished at all.

It's also a story arc that I figure having an operational terminus teleporter would be exceptionally useful, but I also figure most players probably won't have built one either.

[Thorfinn]

Parkour was the reason I never bothered to finish Hexen. If I wanted to play a platformer, I'd play a platformer. That I'm fairly good at parkour does not mean I enjoy it, quite the opposite. I'm undecided whether it's worth it to do the new stuff again until there's something later. Probably not. Well, maybe the first part. New clothes don't interest me at all, but some of the other options might. I have not decided.

But there are plenty of 1.20 changes to get a grip on that don't involve the new storyline.

[Lodey]

Well even if the last step of chapter 2 isn't very good at least I can go to the village and experience that.

[ifoz]

1 hour ago, Lodey said:

Well even if the last step of chapter 2 isn't very good at least I can go to the village and experience that.

You can luckily go and see 3/4 locations without touching the difficult one, but said location is going to be necessary for chapter 3 in the future.
I do kinda wish there was a greater reward for completing chapter 2 because as it currently stands, there really isn't any reason not to just avoid the difficult location and never finish the chapter.

[ArrayPointer]

On 1/10/2025 at 8:42 PM, ifoz said:

One certain location has quite a lot of very 'trial and error' parkour, except one wrong button press will send you plummeting to your death.

On 1/11/2025 at 3:17 AM, Lodey said:

That's disappointing to hear.

On 1/11/2025 at 3:57 AM, ifoz said:

Yeah, that part of the chapter was very confusing and rather unfun for me personally. Spent ages getting through it only to feel like I had cheated because some of the parkour does not feel like it is intended even though it apparently is.

On 1/11/2025 at 9:37 AM, LadyWYT said:

The design was very cool, but I was spending too much time as a pancake, so I ended up just skipping half of the parkour and using creative to get through that portion of the story.

On 1/11/2025 at 12:40 PM, Thorfinn said:

Parkour was the reason I never bothered to finish Hexen. If I wanted to play a platformer, I'd play a platformer.

I haven't posted in quite a while, but this caught my negative attention.

FYI: Every day at work, and I mean every day at work, I tell at least one customer about Vintage Story, but more typically several. This has been going on for over two years now since I started playing. We needn't start a virtue signaling contest for who is Vintage Story's greatest fan, but I'd certainly be in the top 50 as a conservative estimate.

That being said, I HATE parkour, no matter where I encounter it. I actively avoid purchasing any game that prominently features parkour, no matter how stellar the reviews. I hate precise jumping so much that while everyone else was buzzing about how addictive Mario Bros. was back on the NES, I found the game about as enjoyable as ramming my shin against an open dishwasher door. 2D or 3D doesn't matter to me, I hate them all.

Yes, I am only one man, one voice, one opinion. I suspect there may be fans of escaping fall-damage-death by gad-flapping that reside in the ever-growing population of Vintage Story players. I already acknowledge in advance that my opinion doesn't dictate the design decisions of the highly talented crew who develop the game.

But for Pete's sake, one of the reasons why I love realistic and immersive 3D games like Vintage Story is because they are not arcade games.

This in no way diminishes my overwhelming anticipation of the 1.20 stable release. I will simply resign myself to LadyWYT's solution of using creative to skip through extended parkour passages.

Regards,

ArrayPointer

 

[LadyWYT]

2 hours ago, ArrayPointer said:

I haven't posted in quite a while, but this caught my negative attention.

FYI: Every day at work, and I mean every day at work, I tell at least one customer about Vintage Story, but more typically several. This has been going on for over two years now since I started playing. We needn't start a virtue signaling contest for who is Vintage Story's greatest fan, but I'd certainly be in the top 50 as a conservative estimate.

That being said, I HATE parkour, no matter where I encounter it. I actively avoid purchasing any game that prominently features parkour, no matter how stellar the reviews. I hate precise jumping so much that while everyone else was buzzing about how addictive Mario Bros. was back on the NES, I found the game about as enjoyable as ramming my shin against an open dishwasher door. 2D or 3D doesn't matter to me, I hate them all.

Yes, I am only one man, one voice, one opinion. I suspect there may be fans of escaping fall-damage-death by gad-flapping that reside in the ever-growing population of Vintage Story players. I already acknowledge in advance that my opinion doesn't dictate the design decisions of the highly talented crew who develop the game.

But for Pete's sake, one of the reasons why I love realistic and immersive 3D games like Vintage Story is because they are not arcade games.

This in no way diminishes my overwhelming anticipation of the 1.20 stable release. I will simply resign myself to LadyWYT's solution of using creative to skip through extended parkour passages.

Regards,

ArrayPointer

 

If it helps, there's also the "immersive method" of cheating(mild spoiler warning):

Spoiler

There's an elevator you can activate on the top floor of the tower, that serves to bypass all of the parkour once it's activated. If you use creative mode to access and activate this, you can simply pretend it was working the entire time instead of needing to constantly switch gamemodes, should you die at the very top of the tower.

As for what's at the very top of the tower, I won't say, but it is possible to die, so you might want to carry a temporal gear or two to reset your spawn, if you don't have access to a terminus teleporter.

And of course, there's no shame in cheating to skip the parkour if it's really not something you enjoy. In fact, now that I think about it, someone may even end up making a mod that enables the above solution by default, rather than needing to enable it with creative.

[Lodey]

34 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

someone may even end up making a mod

On that note, in theory it shouldn't be difficult to make a mod that alters the layout of the parkour section to make it less tedious for people who don't like deadly jumping puzzles in their survival games.

[ifoz]

4 hours ago, ArrayPointer said:

But for Pete's sake, one of the reasons why I love realistic and immersive 3D games like Vintage Story is because they are not arcade games.

This was basically my biggest issue with the location.

Spoiler

I just don't know if I can believe that this place exploded in such a careful way that when the rubble froze in time, there was one very precise path up the tower, only climbable by jumping around tiny little floating bits with the world's most precision and grace.

In any real life scenario, this would likely be a completely impossible feat for my Seraph.
Honestly if they just let us spend a temporal gear to activate the elevator early, that would be a nice alternative imo. I'd much rather power up and utilise an elevator, since I can realistically accept that as a valid occurrence in-world.

I absolutely love this game and the rest of this story chapter was phenomenal, but I just think that this location could use some improvements. 

Edited January 13 by ifoz

[LadyWYT]

1 hour ago, ifoz said:

This was basically my biggest issue with the location.

  Reveal hidden contents

I just don't know if I can believe that this place exploded in such a careful way that when the rubble froze in time, there was one very precise path up the tower, only climbable by jumping around tiny little floating bits with the world's most precision and grace.

In any real life scenario, this would likely be a completely impossible feat for my Seraph.
Honestly if they just let us spend a temporal gear to activate the elevator early, that would be a nice alternative imo. I'd much rather power up and utilise an elevator, since I can realistically accept that as a valid occurrence in-world.

I absolutely love this game and the rest of this story chapter was phenomenal, but I just think that this location could use some improvements. 

Or if nothing else, could have had:

Spoiler

The Mad Crow grab the player and fly them up to the tower's pinnacle. It could be passed off as some shred of sanity still left in the machine-beast, or just simply crows doing what crows do: collecting shinies and other oddities. Perhaps then the player would have needed to find some special item that's been lying around the tower or surrounding wasteland, and use it as a disguise/bait to get the Crow to carry them to the tower's summit.

I do like what they were going for though, even if what's there is rather over-the-top and not my preferred flavor of gameplay. The later reactions of a certain NPC to your escapades is comedy gold! That being said, I'd like to see more puzzle content similar to what the Archives had, than more hardcore parkour like this. A little bit is fine, but Vintage Story isn't currently designed to support much in the way of parkour.

[Lodey]

9 hours ago, ifoz said:

Honestly if they just let us spend a temporal gear to activate the elevator early, that would be a nice alternative imo.

Actually something like this would be a really great solution. Maybe at the bottom of the elevator you could find a map to another small story location where you can retrieve a unique part to fix/activate the elevator from the bottom. Players who don't want to brave the jumping puzzle would have a slightly alternate path through the chapter.

[ifoz]

2 hours ago, Lodey said:

Actually something like this would be a really great solution. Maybe at the bottom of the elevator you could find a map to another small story location where you can retrieve a unique part to fix/activate the elevator from the bottom. Players who don't want to brave the jumping puzzle would have a slightly alternate path through the chapter.

I would love that, even if it's just the ruins of a small workshop somewhere near the main location.
Not much dev time because it's a single small building, but it might have an enemy or three inside. Somewhere you can retrieve some remote elevator activator device from.