[Feedback]

[Hulkmaster]

Love this game, i especially love depth of all the mechanics - makes it so much fun to play.

Decided i'll gather my list of complains/suggestions in one post (will be updated)

I'm currently late bronze/start iron age (1.19.*)

[H]elp window

The good:

- Ability to find any block/recipe existing in the game

The bad:

• Some recipes cannot be found by material, for example [Aqua Vitae] - recipes require "bowl of aqua vitae", but there is no such item. In the end it looks like there is no usage for it.
• Potential "smithed" "grinded" etc recipes should be listed. For example some items are possible only starting with bronze age and not available in copper age. Would be nice if it would be listed. Also for grinded items: you kinda can most of the time get which item comes from which item after grinding, but its not always explicit. Would be nice to have them listed.
• I think items (some?) require "a tag" and be able to be searched by that "tag". For example: "light sources". I'm still wondering what kind of light sources can be crafted/used.
• Some items really require more description

Classes

Classes do not feel like "expanded gameplay", but rather "limiting gameplay" for other classes.

For example: class exclusive recipes (yes i know you can turn them off). It feels like i'm "missing something" if i don't have "all the classes" on the server. In that regard i like "Project zomboid" system:

• Classes are, basically, presets of "traits"
• Classes are "modifications" to gameplay according to your liking

I think modification of class system would be nice, to be able to "adjust" character gameplay to your liking, for example

• I want for melee weapons to be my primary weapon: i trade "+30% melee damage" for "-30% ranged damage"
• I want to focus on craft: i trade "+30% non-combat tools durability" for "-30% melee damage"; AND "+10% running speed" for "-30% ranged damage"
• Nothing which could trigger FOMO (for example class-exclusive recipes/events/quests)
• Ability to re-create your character class (not sure how to change character for server right now)

Skill progression

I really love skill progression system in games.

I think adding something like that would be nice (but again, it should be in extending, not limiting manner)

example: by doing farming, you gain:

• lower chance of planted by you crops being damaged
• higher chance of higher yield

"Useless" items

I was so disappointed when i got graphite and found out there is no use for it. Would be nice to have some kind of "mark" in wiki, like "WIP or something"

Character sound

Please add any kind of sounds, but not musical instruments, or at least give ability to turn it off. It was fun for first 30min, but then just became annoying

Clay

I've seen that in 1.20 there will be a way to batch-bake clay, but i think it requires "fire-clay" which is hard to encounter early in the game. Ignore if i'm wrong

Server config rates

Would be nice to have server-configurable rates for everything. I don't always have much time to play and would love to configure "burning rate", "leather rate" etc (for example 9 in-game days for leather making is too much for me, same as 24h of burning clay/coal), "growing rate"

Enemies spawning

I do not get this system. I have a house, they spawn in the house (NOT temporal storm). I do not understand how it works and it is not written anywhere.

Re-spawn system

I know there is a mod "spawn at bed" (comments say it is broken right now), but i think it should be server option.

It is just frustrating: there is no way early in the game (and later it is also not easy) to change your spawning point.

Me and my friends like to make separate "bases" on fair distance from each other, but when first X (typically 10-20+) real-time hours there is no way to do that, it is just annoying to be forced to run from "default spawn" each time.

I also don't get when spawn point "just changes" (to merchant, for example)

I think there is a lot to adjust in that system.

Being forced to run to your "base" from "default spawn" each time is not "hard" - it is frustrating.

Smithing

It is fun to smith something once, maybe twice, maybe three times, but re-smithing something over and over again (hello chain armor) is not only real-time consuming, but eventually becomes boring, would be nice to have server setting or something in order to simplify/speed-up that process

For example "auto-craft", but depending on "how much manual crafts you did before" the durability of "auto-crafted" item would change

For example i would not mind something like this:

• 1 manual craft = 10% durability
• 2 manual crafts = 20% durability
• 3 manual crafts = 30% durability
• ...etc

QoL

I think several critical QoL features are missing:

• "Stack to nearby" for storage. Annoying to do it manually
• Chests sorting (for example it is not that easy to notice different types of bricks within one chest)
• "Replace when used" - when i place 32 firewood in hotbar and have 32*8 in inventory, then when i use "hotbar" firewood - i want it to automatically be replaced with "inventory" firewood - very handy when doing piles for coal
• Really would love early-game "infinite light source", which would not rely on "chance of finding these torch holders"

Bugs?

• Brown coal cannot be used for fire-clay furnace. So when i burn quartz, for example, i have to use charcoal, even though they have same burning temp
• There is something wrong with ladders - if you place in 1x1x1 block a ladder, then it is very tricky to use it, sometimes its pretty hard to find "that sweet point" when "shift" starts to work

"Goals"

Currently it is fun to explore game mechanics, and that is what makes it "fun", i've seen that supposedly currently there is "first story arc" but i'm yet to figure out what that means and what to do in order to "achieve" it

Would be nice to have our good ol' stanley parable's "arrow" of some kind - at least something that would say "hey, you still did not 'achieve' this in the game!"

Steam

I read the FAQ

I understand that currently it makes zero sense (except of "more sales", i randomly found out about this game like a week ago in random reddit post) to pay 30% to steam, but i'm now concerned - i've bought 60-euro 4-key bundle in order to play with friends, when game will release on steam i'll have to pay yet again in order to receive better quality service (auto updates and stuff)

 

 

I'll update this post when i'll find more stuff to complain

[LadyWYT]

3 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

Some recipes cannot be found by material, for example [Aqua Vitae] - recipes require "bowl of aqua vitae", but there is no such item. In the end it looks like there is no usage for it.

Bowls and jugs of aqua vitae are used in combination with clean bandages(craft from two flax twine) to get alcohol-soaked bandages. While those are highly effective healing items, they only last for one hour before drying out, so you pretty much have to wait until you need them before you craft them.

3 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

I think items (some?) require "a tag" and be able to be searched by that "tag". For example: "light sources". I'm still wondering what kind of light sources can be crafted/used.

The current light sources are any kind of fire, oil lamps, torches, candles, and lanterns. Torches are the best early-game light source, as they are cheap and offer a decent radius of light. They do, however, burn out after a couple of days if not placed in a torch holder(they're fine in your inventory), and they aren't waterproof. Oil lamps are also cheap, waterproof, and never burn out, but they also do not offer much light. Candles require beeswax and flax fiber, and don't offer much light. You can, however, pan them from bony soil occasionally, and they are needed to craft the best light source currently in the game: lanterns.

3 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

For example: class exclusive recipes (yes i know you can turn them off). It feels like i'm "missing something" if i don't have "all the classes" on the server.

I think they're mostly fine as they are. None of them are so strong that they overshadow the others, and the weaknesses each class holds really isn't that bad. Most of the time what it boils down to is being able to kill an enemy with fewer hits rather than needing an extra hit, or being able to take an extra hit while being attacked. Many of the class exclusive recipe items can be found as ruins loot or purchased from traders, though turning off class exclusive recipes will allow them all to be craft normally. The only thing you'll miss out on regarding those recipes is the tuning spear's locust taming ability: that ability is tied directly to being a clockmaker, rather than to the item itself.

3 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

I really love skill progression system in games.

I don't believe Tyron intends to add a skill progression system. However, there is a mod that offers one: https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/247

3 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

Please add any kind of sounds, but not musical instruments, or at least give ability to turn it off. It was fun for first 30min, but then just became annoying

It's a design choice, though I expect someone will change it via mod sooner or later.

3 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

I've seen that in 1.20 there will be a way to batch-bake clay, but i think it requires "fire-clay" which is hard to encounter early in the game. Ignore if i'm wrong

Clay items can be fired en-masse more easily using the beehive kiln, though this is more of a mid-late game option. You'll need access to iron, and while you can use fire clay bricks in its construction, refractory bricks are much more durable. Fire clay also had its spawning rules changed in 1.20, and now only spawns naturally under black coal/anthracite deposits, or in small deposits in bauxite biomes.

3 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

Would be nice to have server-configurable rates for everything. I don't always have much time to play and would love to configure "burning rate", "leather rate" etc (for example 9 in-game days for leather making is too much for me, same as 24h of burning clay/coal), "growing rate"

https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/10411

3 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

I do not get this system. I have a house, they spawn in the house (NOT temporal storm). I do not understand how it works and it is not written anywhere.

There's two different parameters that govern it: light level, and rift activity. On the surface, it both needs to be dark, and there needs to a rift nearby in order for enemies to spawn. Underground, or in enclosed spaces, it just needs to be dark, with enough space for a monster to spawn. If monsters are spawning in one of your structures, you either need better lighting in that spot, or need to place some clutter(like crates, pelt rugs, firewood, etc) to make it harder for them to spawn.

3 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

It is just frustrating: there is no way early in the game (and later it is also not easy) to change your spawning point.

You can change the amount of respawns that a temporal gear allows to infinite, which helps make it a little easier, but otherwise I don't expect the system to change without the use of mods. I believe Tyron noted in an interview with Oscillascape that the player's ability to change their spawn point is a very powerful one, and thus needs an appropriate cost to reflect that kind of power.

Temporal gears are usually acquired through killing monsters, but they can be acquired in other ways. They sometimes appear as loot from panning gravel or bony soil, though it's rare. They can also be purchased from treasure hunters sometimes, provided you have a few rusty gears to spare.

I'll also note that there's no shame in "cheating" and just giving yourself a temporal gear to reset your spawn point either.

3 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

It is fun to smith something once, maybe twice, maybe three times, but re-smithing something over and over again (hello chain armor) is not only real-time consuming, but eventually becomes boring, would be nice to have server setting or something in order to simplify/speed-up that process

A helve hammer speeds up the smithing process significantly, although it's quite a resource investment. Otherwise, XSkills offers a perk that makes smithing much easier, though it requires specializing in smithing in order to use it. There's also this mod that you might consider, which streamlines more processes than smithing: https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/4046

3 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

Brown coal cannot be used for fire-clay furnace. So when i burn quartz, for example, i have to use charcoal, even though they have same burning temp

Brown coal doesn't burn hot enough to smelt things in a bloomery or cementation furnace. You can, however, refine it into coal coke in a coke oven.

Quartz might be an exception to the heat rule, but it's easier to just prevent brown coal from being used as bloomery fuel to begin with. That way players don't load their bloomery with brown coal and then wonder why their iron isn't smelting.

3 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

Currently it is fun to explore game mechanics, and that is what makes it "fun", i've seen that supposedly currently there is "first story arc" but i'm yet to figure out what that means and what to do in order to "achieve" it

A good portion of the lore requires the player to just poke around: pan bony soil, delve into underground ruins, examine tapestries, etc. For the main story though, you'll want to speak to a treasure hunter and ask them if they know about any interesting places nearby. Complete the resulting quest to receive a map to the first location, and return to the treasure hunter with a tale of your experience there to continue the adventure.

4 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

I read the FAQ

I understand that currently it makes zero sense (except of "more sales", i randomly found out about this game like a week ago in random reddit post) to pay 30% to steam, but i'm now concerned - i've bought 60-euro 4-key bundle in order to play with friends, when game will release on steam i'll have to pay yet again in order to receive better quality service (auto updates and stuff)

Actually, given that the devs seem to be rather generous when it comes to their game, they may end up offering a way to link your Vintage Story client to Steam, if/when Vintage Story ever releases on Steam. There's no guarantee of that, of course, but I could see it happening.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

7 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

The bad:

• Some recipes cannot be found by material, for example [Aqua Vitae] - recipes require "bowl of aqua vitae", but there is no such item. In the end it looks like there is no usage for it.
• Potential "smithed" "grinded" etc recipes should be listed. For example some items are possible only starting with bronze age and not available in copper age. Would be nice if it would be listed. Also for grinded items: you kinda can most of the time get which item comes from which item after grinding, but its not always explicit. Would be nice to have them listed.
• I think items (some?) require "a tag" and be able to be searched by that "tag". For example: "light sources". I'm still wondering what kind of light sources can be crafted/used.
• Some items really require more description

To be fair, I think it is intentional that the devs want you to explore and experiment with things. The methods of making and using Aqua Vitae aren't exactly spelled out because it is one of the most effective healing methods in the game outside of mods. As for smithing things, you have to consider the hardness of metals and their forging temperatures. You would NOT expect a soft copper anvil to withstand the force of the hammer blows needed to forge an iron or steel pickaxe for example. However a bronze anvil is sturdy enough to withstand the temps of forging iron without degrading because bronze is a harder metal than copper due to how alloys work. The rest I agree with, though again, to the point of experimenting, I don't think it should ALL be 100% spelled out. It takes away from the discovery and sense of accomplishment when you figure something out...(like making Aqua Vitae... first time I did it, I felt like I could do anything.)

 

7 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

Classes

Classes do not feel like "expanded gameplay", but rather "limiting gameplay" for other classes.

I look at them more like different flavors of ice cream. Aside from the class-exclusive recipes (like the Blackguard sword or the Clockmaker's tuning spear), you are able to complete the game just fine with the items that are available to all classes. Each class has drawbacks to make it more balanced so there's no single obvious choice that's better than the others, so I'm not sure why you think they are limited. Would you expect a weaver to know the intricacies of forging a fine sword? Would you expect a clockmaker to be able to stitch clothing together in a way that makes sense? You don't go to the dentist for a sore throat even though he's a doctor...

7 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

Please add any kind of sounds, but not musical instruments, or at least give ability to turn it off. It was fun for first 30min, but then just became annoying

but I LOVE the sad trombone noises my character makes when he gets punched by a drifter!

7 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

It is fun to smith something once, maybe twice, maybe three times, but re-smithing something over and over again (hello chain armor) is not only real-time consuming, but eventually becomes boring, would be nice to have server setting or something in order to simplify/speed-up that process

For example "auto-craft", but depending on "how much manual crafts you did before" the durability of "auto-crafted" item would change

maybe it's just me, but I love the mindless smithing system we have now. It's a great way to pass the night, especially in the early stages of the game where every minute wasted could set you back in the long run. Step 1, heat metal. Step 2, plop hot metal on anvil. Step 3, push those little voxels around until they all have a home. Step 4, look up and realize you were forging all night long and it's now day. Time to go exploring again!

7 hours ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

I think several critical QoL features are missing:

I agree with all of these except the infinite light sources because they already exist in the game and can be obtained before bronze age... maybe even before copper age, so I would count them as early game.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

3 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

There's also this mod that you might consider, which streamlines more processes than smithing: https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/4046

I wouldn't say it streamlines anything but perhaps makes those things more accessible to players with moderate to severe physical disabilities that might render the normal way of doing things difficult or impossible.

[LadyWYT]

1 hour ago, traugdor said:

I wouldn't say it streamlines anything but perhaps makes those things more accessible to players with moderate to severe physical disabilities that might render the normal way of doing things difficult or impossible.

I meant that it may streamline smithing a bit, because I think it lets you simply hammer away on item until it's done. No need to constantly shift modes or turn the piece on the anvil. It also looks like you can change how many voxels are moved per hit, which should also speed up the completion time.

[Apocalypse_Andy]

Yes some of the game mechanics and lore are a mystery.  There are plenty of things that I wouldn't know without reading patch notes, watching players on twitch/youtube or happening to read them on the forums.  I feel like this is intentional. 

Making chain armor is really hard, until you figure out that mechanical power can assist with most of the process. 

I hate telling people "There's a mod for that," when they are clearly asking for base game changes, but for most of the things you would like to see in game, there's a mod for that. 

Wait you want an infinite light source early on?  That's called an oil lamp.  There is so much to learn in this game.  Did you know there are least 5 different resources you could make limewater with?

[Thorfinn]

57 minutes ago, Apocalypse_Andy said:

I hate telling people "There's a mod for that," when they are clearly asking for base game changes

It's not usually that I have a problem with the idea itself, but rather that we are only in Act I, Scene 2. There's a reason the lead did what he did, even though I don't know what that reason was. I'd prefer to get to the closing curtain before becoming a critic.

If you can't wait, install a mod. I guess I can' t see the downside to telling the impatient how they can have it now.

[Hulkmaster]

oh my, so many responses, thank you all!

i'll try to answer all the comments, but it will take a while

[Hulkmaster]

20 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Bowls and jugs of aqua vitae are used in combination with clean bandages(craft from two flax twine) to get alcohol-soaked bandages. While those are highly effective healing items, they only last for one hour before drying out, so you pretty much have to wait until you need them before you craft them.

Thanks!

But still feels like "help window" needs to adjust for that

20 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

The current light sources are any kind of fire, oil lamps, torches, candles, and lanterns. Torches are the best early-game light source, as they are cheap and offer a decent radius of light. They do, however, burn out after a couple of days if not placed in a torch holder(they're fine in your inventory), and they aren't waterproof. Oil lamps are also cheap, waterproof, and never burn out, but they also do not offer much light. Candles require beeswax and flax fiber, and don't offer much light. You can, however, pan them from bony soil occasionally, and they are needed to craft the best light source currently in the game: lanterns.

thanks yet again!

would be nice if that info would be available in-game though

20 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

I think they're mostly fine as they are. None of them are so strong that they overshadow the others, and the weaknesses each class holds really isn't that bad. Most of the time what it boils down to is being able to kill an enemy with fewer hits rather than needing an extra hit, or being able to take an extra hit while being attacked. Many of the class exclusive recipe items can be found as ruins loot or purchased from traders, though turning off class exclusive recipes will allow them all to be craft normally. The only thing you'll miss out on regarding those recipes is the tuning spear's locust taming ability: that ability is tied directly to being a clockmaker, rather than to the item itself.

i'm primarily talking about FOMO in my point

i love stuff being locked behind a challenge (you cannot craft iron without fire clay; for fir clay you have to adventure etc)

but i hate stuff being locked behind some obscure stuff, for example classes, and i strongly think it can be drastically improved

20 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

I don't believe Tyron intends to add a skill progression system. However, there is a mod that offers one: https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/247

just my thoughts, not critical

20 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

It's a design choice, though I expect someone will change it via mod sooner or later.

i ask at least being able to turn them off as separate sound option. there are mods which modify them, but annoying, seriously. If Tyron wishes to stick to them - no problem, but give me ability to turn them off then.

20 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Clay items can be fired en-masse more easily using the beehive kiln, though this is more of a mid-late game option. You'll need access to iron, and while you can use fire clay bricks in its construction, refractory bricks are much more durable. Fire clay also had its spawning rules changed in 1.20, and now only spawns naturally under black coal/anthracite deposits, or in small deposits in bauxite biomes.

looking forward to try it out!

but for new spawning rules to apply i'll have to re-create my server from scratch? it would not be an option for us

 

thanks for a mod link, would be nice to have it in base options without mods

 

20 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

There's two different parameters that govern it: light level, and rift activity. On the surface, it both needs to be dark, and there needs to a rift nearby in order for enemies to spawn. Underground, or in enclosed spaces, it just needs to be dark, with enough space for a monster to spawn. If monsters are spawning in one of your structures, you either need better lighting in that spot, or need to place some clutter(like crates, pelt rugs, firewood, etc) to make it harder for them to spawn.

I'll just leave it here for all future points: thanks (x20)

Still would be nice to have that info in the game

20 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

You can change the amount of respawns that a temporal gear allows to infinite, which helps make it a little easier, but otherwise I don't expect the system to change without the use of mods. I believe Tyron noted in an interview with Oscillascape that the player's ability to change their spawn point is a very powerful one, and thus needs an appropriate cost to reflect that kind of power.

Temporal gears are usually acquired through killing monsters, but they can be acquired in other ways. They sometimes appear as loot from panning gravel or bony soil, though it's rare. They can also be purchased from treasure hunters sometimes, provided you have a few rusty gears to spare.

I'll also note that there's no shame in "cheating" and just giving yourself a temporal gear to reset your spawn point either.

true, true and true

still would be nice to have server option for bed respawn or something

20 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

A helve hammer speeds up the smithing process significantly, although it's quite a resource investment. Otherwise, XSkills offers a perk that makes smithing much easier, though it requires specializing in smithing in order to use it. There's also this mod that you might consider, which streamlines more processes than smithing: https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/4046

yet again thanks

20 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Brown coal doesn't burn hot enough to smelt things in a bloomery or cementation furnace. You can, however, refine it into coal coke in a coke oven.

Quartz might be an exception to the heat rule, but it's easier to just prevent brown coal from being used as bloomery fuel to begin with. That way players don't load their bloomery with brown coal and then wonder why their iron isn't smelting.

correct me if i'm wrong, but charcoal max temp is 1300; brown coal max temp is 1300

you can load charcoal, but not brown coal

doesn't make sense?

20 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

A good portion of the lore requires the player to just poke around: pan bony soil, delve into underground ruins, examine tapestries, etc. For the main story though, you'll want to speak to a treasure hunter and ask them if they know about any interesting places nearby. Complete the resulting quest to receive a map to the first location, and return to the treasure hunter with a tale of your experience there to continue the adventure.

i really which that would have been written anywhere in the game

20 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Actually, given that the devs seem to be rather generous when it comes to their game, they may end up offering a way to link your Vintage Story client to Steam, if/when Vintage Story ever releases on Steam. There's no guarantee of that, of course, but I could see it happening.

yep

[Hulkmaster]

17 hours ago, traugdor said:

but I LOVE the sad trombone noises my character makes when he gets punched by a drifter!

thanks why i'm asking for "opt-out" rather than "changing"

17 hours ago, traugdor said:

maybe it's just me, but I love the mindless smithing system we have now. It's a great way to pass the night, especially in the early stages of the game where every minute wasted could set you back in the long run. Step 1, heat metal. Step 2, plop hot metal on anvil. Step 3, push those little voxels around until they all have a home. Step 4, look up and realize you were forging all night long and it's now day. Time to go exploring again!

different people would love different kind of "fun"

again, "opt-out"

 

[Hulkmaster]

10 hours ago, Apocalypse_Andy said:

Wait you want an infinite light source early on?  That's called an oil lamp.  There is so much to learn in this game.  Did you know there are least 5 different resources you could make limewater with?

not sure about 5 ways, but limewater is not an issue for me

oil lamp is a good choice, true

[Hulkmaster]

8 hours ago, Thorfinn said:

If you can't wait, install a mod. I guess I can' t see the downside to telling the impatient how they can have it now.

not sure if "impatient"

me and my friends are playing right now and most likely we'll not return until release, after we'll finish all available content

i think its fair and reasonable for us to wish to have all/most QoL things we wish for and if its available only via mods - thanks for everyone who linked a "mod for it"! It is no issue for us to install the mod in order to get what we wish for

 

And yes, different people wish for different ways to have "fun" and it is really nice when there is a way to configure it

[Hulkmaster]

32 minutes ago, Sergei Ermakov said:

correct me if i'm wrong, but charcoal max temp is 1300; brown coal max temp is 1300

you can load charcoal, but not brown coal

doesn't make sense?

i was incredibly wrong

brown coal - 1100
charcoal 1300