New (ish) player here, whats going on with the combat system?

[Zekeo42]

New (ish) player here, Im reaching close to 100 hours so far and this game has me thoroughly addicted. 

For some small background, earlier today I experienced my second heavy temporal storm. Very scary! At this point Ive had bronze for a while, and have 1 full set of bronze plated armor. I made the big mistake of thinking that a full set of armor, a bronze falx and shield would be more then enough to take on any potential enemies outside. I was horribly incorrect and within mere seconds my full set of armor was reduced to zero durability. (Side note Im not entire sure if a reduced durability effects the armor in any way other then it visually broken). Not gonna lie its EXTREMELY frustrating to have worked so hard for armor, only for it to be completely ineffective and destroyed by higher tier enemies. 

So I guess my overall question is, what am I doing wrong? Or is the damage scaling just that bad? I feel like the jump from tier 1 enemies, all the way to tier 3 and 4 is WAYYY to high. Im just generally annoyed that everything, even hogs just do so much damage that it makes combat completely pointless. 

[LadyWYT]

Welcome to the forums and the game!

12 minutes ago, Zekeo42 said:

So I guess my overall question is, what am I doing wrong? Or is the damage scaling just that bad? I feel like the jump from tier 1 enemies, all the way to tier 3 and 4 is WAYYY to high. Im just generally annoyed that everything, even hogs just do so much damage that it makes combat completely pointless. 

You might give the armor page of the wiki a read, as it explains quite a lot about how weapons and armor work in the game: https://wiki.vintagestory.at/Special:MyLanguage/Armor

But basically, each enemy has a specific tier of attack. In order to counter attacks effectively, you'll want to wear the appropriate armor for that tier, or better tier armor if available. For example, wolves and bears are tier 2 enemies, meaning that you'll want tier 2+ armor to mitigate the attacks. Lower tier armor is still better than nothing when fighting them, but it won't soak up nearly as much damage, and will lose more durability than an armor of the appropriate tier.

It's also very important to note that armor isn't meant to make the player entirely invincible, as much as it is meant to improve a player's chance of survival and extend the amount of time they can spend in combat. It will still be necessary to take short breaks to heal, especially when dealing with high tier opponents as they hit quite hard.

Regarding player weapons, enemies do not currently have armor stats, so there's no need to account for that unless you're fighting other players.

20 minutes ago, Zekeo42 said:

earlier today I experienced my second heavy temporal storm. Very scary!

Heavy temporal storms I really wouldn't recommend venturing into unless you have iron or better gear, or unless you're experienced enough to handle high tier enemies with lower tier gear. Heavy temporal storms predominantly spawn tier 3-4 enemies, which will be difficult to kill with bronze equipment while being able to punch right through bronze armor. It's still possible to fight them with bronze equipment, but you'll likely need to be taking healing breaks much more frequently, as well as being more careful with your movements(it's possible to dodge some attacks with quick left/right sprints, or backward sprinting).

 

24 minutes ago, Zekeo42 said:

even hogs just do so much damage

Hogs can be dangerous if you aren't armored, but they are a tier 1 enemy(tier 2 if the huge boars in 1.22) so most any armor should be sufficient to help defend against their attacks. That being said, the best way to go about hunting them, and most prey animals in general, is to stand at a distance and throw spears or shoot arrows(spears are stronger in the early game). It takes some practice to develop your aim, and patience to track down larger animals, but most prey animals would rather run away than attack. The main exceptions are hogs and male deer.

I will also note though, that if the enemy damage feels too high, it's possible to adjust it in the game settings. You can do so at world creation, or via the command /worldconfig creatureStrength 1.0, whereas 1.0 is the default multiplier for Standard difficulty. If you adjust the setting via command, make sure to reload the world for the change to take effect.

[Zekeo42]

2 hours ago, LadyWYT said:

Welcome to the forums and the game!

You might give the armor page of the wiki a read, as it explains quite a lot about how weapons and armor work in the game: https://wiki.vintagestory.at/Special:MyLanguage/Armor

But basically, each enemy has a specific tier of attack. In order to counter attacks effectively, you'll want to wear the appropriate armor for that tier, or better tier armor if available. For example, wolves and bears are tier 2 enemies, meaning that you'll want tier 2+ armor to mitigate the attacks. Lower tier armor is still better than nothing when fighting them, but it won't soak up nearly as much damage, and will lose more durability than an armor of the appropriate tier.

It's also very important to note that armor isn't meant to make the player entirely invincible, as much as it is meant to improve a player's chance of survival and extend the amount of time they can spend in combat. It will still be necessary to take short breaks to heal, especially when dealing with high tier opponents as they hit quite hard.

Regarding player weapons, enemies do not currently have armor stats, so there's no need to account for that unless you're fighting other players.

Heavy temporal storms I really wouldn't recommend venturing into unless you have iron or better gear, or unless you're experienced enough to handle high tier enemies with lower tier gear. Heavy temporal storms predominantly spawn tier 3-4 enemies, which will be difficult to kill with bronze equipment while being able to punch right through bronze armor. It's still possible to fight them with bronze equipment, but you'll likely need to be taking healing breaks much more frequently, as well as being more careful with your movements(it's possible to dodge some attacks with quick left/right sprints, or backward sprinting).

 

Hogs can be dangerous if you aren't armored, but they are a tier 1 enemy(tier 2 if the huge boars in 1.22) so most any armor should be sufficient to help defend against their attacks. That being said, the best way to go about hunting them, and most prey animals in general, is to stand at a distance and throw spears or shoot arrows(spears are stronger in the early game). It takes some practice to develop your aim, and patience to track down larger animals, but most prey animals would rather run away than attack. The main exceptions are hogs and male deer.

I will also note though, that if the enemy damage feels too high, it's possible to adjust it in the game settings. You can do so at world creation, or via the command /worldconfig creatureStrength 1.0, whereas 1.0 is the default multiplier for Standard difficulty. If you adjust the setting via command, make sure to reload the world for the change to take effect.

Thanks for the reply, I think Im just going to end up turning the creature strength down because the whole combat system in this game is easily the least feature complete in my opinion. The further I go on the more I consider "Cheating" and installing mods/changing the world config, because as much as I love this game, it does have some pretty big flaws, as to be expected for and early access game of this size. Either way, looking forward to a future combat overhaul, and other updates as well! 

[vinnland]

6 hours ago, Zekeo42 said:

Not gonna lie its EXTREMELY frustrating to have worked so hard for armor, only for it to be completely ineffective and destroyed by higher tier enemies. 

I beleive I had a similar post/question about this around when I have 100 hrs in, you can see that post here: 

What I will say is this, now that I am closer to 400 hrs in, fighting is not just about "power", it's about tactics. On that point, you should:

• Use a shield
• Don't tel them hit you - run, jump, do a full halo
• Make sure you have enough space.

[Zekeo42]

44 minutes ago, RogueVali said:

Hah. So few things already. I dunno what's with the metal armor, but indeed it's really barely worth it. Fixing it is also joke worthy. Leather I found acceptable, cause at least in 1.21.6 leather's fairly manageable to acquire. Other than that, armor impairs ur speed, increases ur hunger rates. U mostly meant to wear a set for expeditions, story missions, somewhere where u plan to experience a lot of short, but condensed combat.

Next thing, yeah. Temporal storms? Useless. There's nothing to gain from fighting endless hordes of ranged enemies. Unless u wanna farm some enemy drops, but if u got enough materials to make a metal set, u probably don't need those bone arrows or flax fibers. Gears are sweet, including temporals, but there's better ways of getting both. Namely underground expeditions.

So yeah, I guess few tips I got, would be: Armor? Chills on that armor stand, unless you really need it. Like before-mentioned underground mining expeditions. For more day to day wear, make urself either a wooden one, or straight up improvised set. Cause legit, even improvised set can save u a hit or two. Other than that, yeah, horsetail and cattails make healing salve. Keep that in mind. As for temporal storms? Spooky. Interesting. U seen one, u seen them all. Wait em out in ur house or other safe space. Avoid unnecessary combat and damage. Other than that, what lady said, Shield's great. 90% damage reduction during active block is what should really help. Much cheaper than full armour set too.

Yeah, Ive just resorted to carrying around leather armor for most of my trips, say for my upcoming trip to the "Resonance achieves", which I am very much dreading simply due to how generally ineffective armor is...but also excited to experience my first story event! Crossing my fingers that we can get some sorta spawn system (aside from the temporal gears) at some point, as Id like to be able to travel the massive open world without fear of being completely reset back to spawn, and potentially relocate my house much further away. 

[Zekeo42]

1 hour ago, vinnland said:

I beleive I had a similar post/question about this around when I have 100 hrs in, you can see that post here: 

What I will say is this, now that I am closer to 400 hrs in, fighting is not just about "power", it's about tactics. On that point, you should:

• Use a shield
• Don't tel them hit you - run, jump, do a full halo
• Make sure you have enough space.

See heres were I start to have a problem, even with a little armor most enemies Ive seen can very much outrun you... : ( but your right a shield does make a world of difference. I always carry blocks on me because Ive found it easier just to build a small safety tower 

[vinnland]

1 hour ago, Zekeo42 said:

See heres were I start to have a problem, even with a little armor most enemies Ive seen can very much outrun you... : ( but your right a shield does make a world of difference. I always carry blocks on me because Ive found it easier just to build a small safety tower 

Yeah i do the safty tower thing early game, then switch to sheild + falx when i get some proper leather armour.

[LadyWYT]

8 hours ago, Zekeo42 said:

Yeah, Ive just resorted to carrying around leather armor for most of my trips, say for my upcoming trip to the "Resonance achieves", which I am very much dreading simply due to how generally ineffective armor is...but also excited to experience my first story event! Crossing my fingers that we can get some sorta spawn system (aside from the temporal gears) at some point, as Id like to be able to travel the massive open world without fear of being completely reset back to spawn, and potentially relocate my house much further away. 

The minimum tier of armor for the Resonance Archive is tier 2, which means you'll need bronze or gambeson. It is possible to complete without, however, it will be very difficult to do so. Iron tends to be what I prefer, especially in singleplayer, since it gives more wiggle room for fighting tough stuff.

Leather armor I don't recommend for anything other than basic travel about the surface. It's a tier 1 armor with lower durability, which means it will be shredded easily by most attacks. Bronze armor is tougher and more durable, as is gambeson(which you can buy from some traders, though I forget which, aside from Clothing), and iron will eclipse both of those in terms of durability and damage mitigation. The more durable your armor is, the less often you'll have to repair it as well.

For open world travel like you've mentioned, you might look into building the terminus teleporter--it will teleport you back to your last point of death for the cost of one temporal gear. You can also set temporal gears to have infinite respawns, so you don't have to worry about refreshing your spawn unless you actually want to move your spawnpoint. Otherwise, there are mods that allow players to set spawn via bed, but I don't expect the spawn system itself to change since setting one's spawn is a powerful ability, hence why the current system is designed the way it is.

8 hours ago, Zekeo42 said:

See heres were I start to have a problem, even with a little armor most enemies Ive seen can very much outrun you... : ( but your right a shield does make a world of difference. I always carry blocks on me because Ive found it easier just to build a small safety tower

Depends on class and armor. Fast enemies like wolves, bears, and shivers are better at outrunning heavily armored players, however, the player generally needs to be wearing plate or scale, or otherwise be a little lacking when it comes to terrain navigation. Brigandine and chain are solid options for iron/steel armor that will be very protective without slowing the player down too much. Chain is better since it's more protective and less restricting for movement(move faster, with more ranged accuracy), but it's also more expensive than brigandine. Brigandine offers good protection for a slightly lower cost, if the player is running a little short on metal. Scale armor is protective than chain, but also more expensive and a little more restrictive when it comes to movement and accuracy. Plate is the most protective of all, but also carries the most drawbacks; it's very good for base defense in temporal storms or for diving deep into the caves(movement isn't as much of a concern for either scenario and the player has more opportunity to step back to safety to heal), but not so good for adventuring due to the drawbacks.

For general surface adventuring, you'll want to invest in gambeson. It's lightweight, so it won't penalize hunger, movement, bandaging time, or accuracy much at all, while also offering tier 2 protection, which is sufficient for dealing with most surface threats. Since it's made of linen, it's also rather easy to repair once you get flax fields going, and the durability means it won't need repair too often(provided the player isn't trying to fight tier 3+ frequently in it).

Last but not least, enemies aren't very adept at navigating rough terrain. It's not unusual for them to struggle to climb hills, swim across lakes and ponds, charge through thick brush, or skirt holes. Learning to navigate rough terrain with ease should help you lose most pursuing enemies.

10 hours ago, vinnland said:

What I will say is this, now that I am closer to 400 hrs in, fighting is not just about "power", it's about tactics. On that point, you should:

• Use a shield
• Don't tel them hit you - run, jump, do a full halo
• Make sure you have enough space.

This really can't be stated enough, though I do want to add that sometimes it's better to avoid the fight, if one has the option. Yes, there are times where fighting isn't optional, and dead enemies are no longer capable of attacking the player. However, for example, if the bear hasn't spotted the player and isn't near the player's base, sometimes it's best to just leave the creature alone, give it space, and keep an eye on it while in the area so it can't sneak up behind. Likewise, when cave diving, if there are a lot of monsters underground at the time, it's best to check the rift activity(it will likely be higher, since higher rift activity generally means more underground spawns) and come back later on a calmer day.

When it comes to wildlife specifically, the player doesn't necessarily need to kill them if they attack; the creature will run away from the player if severely injured. Wild animals will sometimes run away briefly even if not critically injured, which can give the player opportunity to run away if they need to.

[Thorfinn]

Don't underestimate @LadyWYT's recommendation of gambeson. Between that and choosing your battles, and @vinnland's recommendation of learn to dodge hits, that will get you through, well, everything in the game so far.

[vinnland]

It cannot be overstated that you should avoid bears. They-are-so-damn-lethal!

[LadyWYT]

6 hours ago, vinnland said:

It cannot be overstated that you should avoid bears. They-are-so-damn-lethal!

Pretty much! Once the player has better gear(bronze or better), or otherwise has more skill, then bears are more manageable, but in the early game it's very risky. Of course, it is possible to trap them in deep pits, or in fences, and then stab them to death, but such strategies are generally not fun long-term, as well as at risk of being patched out someday(potentially).

I will note that it is possible to kite bears in melee(at least, assuming the bear in question is not white or brown), however, it's still quite difficult and not something I recommend doing unless very experienced.

[williams_482]

Once you have enough iron and hammer power for it, I strongly recommend investing in iron and then steel chain. It's expensive in time and material but has light enough penalties to be perfectly workable as every day armor, as well as enough defense to take on story locations.