What is the argument as to not add the game to steam?

[vewvew]

The only argument going for it, is they wouldn't earn 100% from it, yet the earnings from the ease of accessibility on the increase of sales justifies by miles.
The social aspect would be very good too. As to show off the hours one has playing the game. Or the background you may be able to show off in your steam profile.
I have to constantly convince my poor friends to play this games, but they are not form wealthy countries and thus always play the game pirated. 
I have bought this game 4 to 5 times, because I love and wish to share it with everyone I can. But there is no ease in of accessibility. Like regional pricing;
The money one expends on games is not exactly X amount of money to all people. To colonised poor and used for cheap labour proletariat people, which is not canada, usa, europe, eastasia. I.E. the rest of the 80% of every one on earth. We have to explain to the overly pampered by society people that 20% of your monthly salary isn't worth one game.
If you are fortunate enough as to not be from where most of us are. Let me frame it as this. Would you have gotten this game were it to be valued at 200 USD? We earn in a day, what you do per hour, just multiply the amount of hours it costed you to days, basically. 
I and many people I know had to pirate it to know whether it would be worth the price.
The steam solution offers better income for the creators, better social integration, better piracy solution, better ease of use, and even better spread of the game. 
The regional pricing actual made steam earn, 450million dollars, the benefit made each region that they were targeting to triple. [21:30 - 22:00]



 

[LadyWYT]

Probably because Anego Studios is doing just fine without Steam at the moment. Steam takes a cut of revenue, and has its own set of rules that Anego would need to comply with to ensure that Vintage Story can be sold on Steam(as is the case when dealing with any kind of middleman). I think Steam integration is still on the roadmap for the game's future, but definitely not a priority right now.

[vewvew]

4 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

Probably because Anego Studios is doing just fine without Steam at the moment.

No way, the argument went from, because they take a share of the money, to, because we don't need that much money. 
I mean, I do pray that it's on the road map, and for it to come soon. 

[LadyWYT]

3 minutes ago, vewvew said:

No way, the argument went from, because they take a share of the money, to, because we don't need that much money. 
I mean, I do pray that it's on the road map, and for it to come soon. 

Personally, I'd prefer they wait until the game is out of early access before involving Steam. As I said, they seem to be doing just fine without Steam at the moment, and acquiring popularity too fast before the game is ready to handle more players can stress infrastructure, as well as strain the community. 1.20 already had some issues with this at launch, since there was a bigger influx of new players than expected and the existing infrastructure just could not keep up very well. Some content had to be delayed as a result to fix the issues.

A player's first experience should be as smooth as possible, and while Vintage Story is very good for an early access game...it's still early access. There will be bugs, lots of content that needs polish, and lots of changes between now and the finished product. Just my opinion, but launching on Steam now is likely to bring in more players than the infrastructure can perhaps handle, along with many of them expecting a fully polished game and getting upset when they encounter bugs/underdeveloped content/major changes in an update. To some extent, this is already an issue with the updates, and launching on Steam would very likely make that problem worse.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

1 hour ago, vewvew said:

To colonised poor and used for cheap labour proletariat people, which is not canada, usa, europe, eastasia. I.E. the rest of the 80% of every one on earth. We have to explain to the overly pampered by society people that 20% of your monthly salary isn't worth one game.

Then maybe quit spending your money on video games? I work hand to mouth, paycheck to paycheck. I was gifted this game by a friend. I have what is considered a well-below-average income for people my age and living situation and I often have to forego video games that I want to play and I cannot afford to buy computer parts to play the games that I have at the settings I want. It's called PRIORITIES.

Set them.

Follow them.

Stop making excuses.

 

EDIT:
Steam workshop is also where the whole paid mods fiasco started, so I wouldn't laud Steam as the allmighty savior of video games. They nearly killed the modding scene for Skyrim and Fallout

Edited 16 hours ago by Teh Pizza Lady

[vewvew]

2 hours ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

Then maybe quit spending your money on video games?

Some people really are cruel.

[MKMoose]

4 hours ago, vewvew said:

The only argument going for it, is they wouldn't earn 100% from it [...]

You might or might not want to consult the FAQ, where Tyron has listed six arguments.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

6 hours ago, vewvew said:

Some people really are cruel.

Honesty is sometimes cruel. Reality is a harsh mistress. Sorry I had to be the one to give you a reality check.

[williams_482]

2 hours ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

Honesty is sometimes cruel. Reality is a harsh mistress. Sorry I had to be the one to give you a reality check.

Quickly extrapolating from the numbers given, this person lives in an area where a typical wage is the equivalent of roughly $3 per day. We do not know their personal circumstances, nor are they whining about the damage spending money on this game has done to them personally. They are merely saying the following:

1. In their local currency, this game is prohibitively expensive for most people. 

2. If this game had regional pricing and became viable for people in their country, it would probably benefit from the increased sales.

None of that is wrong. It's understandable why the devs have not put the game on steam or directed their energies into some other mechanism of implementing regional pricing, but it's also understandable to lament the effect this has on poorer regions. 

Brushing that aside and telling this person that they personally should simply spend less money on video games totally misses the point and doesn't respond to anything they actually said. 

I'm sorry that your personal circumstances are difficult, and I'm glad you were fortunate enough to receive a copy of this game as a gift in spite of that. This person is merely asking that they be able to extend the same privilege to more of their own friends, and I struggle to see anything wrong with that. 

[Nisaba]

Releasing on Steam as early access would buy the devs nothing but pain at this point, the reviews would eventually be filled with entitled whiners, complaining about the rate of development.

And it would just increase the surface area / number of locations the devs would have to watch for feedback. There is this thing called "context switching" that slows down both machines and humans. Steam would just be adding more of that for no reason.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

2 hours ago, williams_482 said:

Brushing that aside and telling this person that they personally should simply spend less money on video games totally misses the point and doesn't respond to anything they actually said.

Would you rather I respond to the part where they openly advocated for piracy of the game instead?

I have no sympathy for thieves.

[LadyWYT]

3 hours ago, williams_482 said:

1. In their local currency, this game is prohibitively expensive for most people. 

2. If this game had regional pricing and became viable for people in their country, it would probably benefit from the increased sales.

None of that is wrong. It's understandable why the devs have not put the game on steam or directed their energies into some other mechanism of implementing regional pricing, but it's also understandable to lament the effect this has on poorer regions.

I think I would rather Anego set up their own infrastructure for regional pricing, rather than rely on Steam. I like Steam; it's very convenient. But I also don't really like how many things are so reliant on Steam either. 

[williams_482]

2 minutes ago, LadyWYT said:

I think I would rather Anego set up their own infrastructure for regional pricing, rather than rely on Steam. I like Steam; it's very convenient. But I also don't really like how many things are so reliant on Steam either. 

Agreed 100%. Of course that's still a real lift for the devs to set up, hence it not happening (yet). 

28 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

Would you rather I respond to the part where they openly advocated for piracy of the game instead?

I have no sympathy for thieves.

The user acknowledges that piracy exists in their circle of friends. This is not an endorsement of the practice! On the contrary, they bring it up as a sign of a problem, and propose a solution (regional pricing/moving to Steam) which would combat it. 

We've known for a long time that the best way to prevent piracy is to make games affordable and easy to acquire legally. Anego studios has (correctly, I'd say) prioritized the continued development of the game over optimizing for minimizing piracy from third world countries. Thus, small scale piracy from third world countries. Thems the breaks. 

[Emeal]

As long as the profits are fine and the game is still in development there is no need release on steam. The logic needs to be the other way around.

Why does Anego Studios need to release a game they are still developing on Steam right now, unless they need cash and idk Tyron has not posted images of his car yet.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

1 minute ago, williams_482 said:

The user acknowledges that piracy exists in their circle of friends. This is not an endorsement of the practice! On the contrary, they bring it up as a sign of a problem, and propose a solution (regional pricing/moving to Steam) which would combat it. 

We've known for a long time that the best way to prevent piracy is to make games affordable and easy to acquire legally. Anego studios has (correctly, I'd say) prioritized the continued development of the game over optimizing for minimizing piracy from third world countries. Thus, small scale piracy from third world countries. Thems the breaks. 

I've been told in DMs that I'm coming off harsher than I should. My point is not that people don't struggle. My point is that not being able to afford something not needed for basic life is no justification for pirating it. Food and water? sure. Video games? no. A lot of us skip things we simply cannot afford. This happens in all walks of life.

Regional pricing for the game would help, but it doesn't change the fact that piracy is just wrong. And there will still always be people that would try to pirate it even if it were priced for that region. That is still wrong. Tagging "thems the breaks" at the end of your argument comes off as a cheap jab to dismiss the fact that piracy is still wrong and doesn't change my mind on the issue.

As it stands I've already reported this thread for breaking forum rules about discussing piracy of the game so I'll be bowing out of this discussion. I'm more than happy to discuss other things in this topic as long as it doesn't involve justifying piracy as a valid way of "try before you buy" this game that already has a generous refund policy for people who regret their purchase.

2 minutes ago, Emeal said:

As long as the profits are fine and the game is still in development there is no need release on steam. The logic needs to be the other way around.

Why does Anego Studios need to release a game they are still developing on Steam right now, unless they need cash and idk Tyron has not posted images of his car yet.

His car is Dave. All the haters are jealous.

[LadyWYT]

3 minutes ago, williams_482 said:

The user acknowledges that piracy exists in their circle of friends. This is not an endorsement of the practice! On the contrary, they bring it up as a sign of a problem, and propose a solution (regional pricing/moving to Steam) which would combat it. 

We've known for a long time that the best way to prevent piracy is to make games affordable and easy to acquire legally. Anego studios has (correctly, I'd say) prioritized the continued development of the game over optimizing for minimizing piracy from third world countries. Thus, small scale piracy from third world countries. Thems the breaks. 

Maybe it would help if the refund policy were advertised a bit more prominently? I've not exactly read over it myself, but as I understand it, the policy is very generous. Might help cut down on some of the piracy if more players knew they could safely buy the game and give it a proper try and still get their money back. Steam's policy, as I recall, is much more stringent, only allowing about two hours' worth of gameplay total before the refund opportunity expires. Two hours isn't really enough time to give many games a proper try, especially not meaty games like Vintage Story.

I mean I'd also say it would be neat if we could have some sort of wishlist feature in the Anego store, where players could perhaps gift copies to other players in specific regions. It could be a cool way to further support Vintage Story's development aside from buying the little supporter add-on. But such a system would also be rather easy to abuse, I think, unless it had some sort of strict oversight...and I'm not sure it's really worth that kind of oversight.

[vewvew]

11 hours ago, MKMoose said:

You might or might not want to consult the FAQ, where Tyron has listed six arguments.

Thank you! I didn't know of this. But nothing new was added from what we know...

[vewvew]

3 hours ago, williams_482 said:

Quickly extrapolating from the numbers given, this person lives in an area where a typical wage is the equivalent of roughly $3 per day. We do not know their personal circumstances, nor are they whining about the damage spending money on this game has done to them personally. They are merely saying the following:

1. In their local currency, this game is prohibitively expensive for most people. 

2. If this game had regional pricing and became viable for people in their country, it would probably benefit from the increased sales.

None of that is wrong. It's understandable why the devs have not put the game on steam or directed their energies into some other mechanism of implementing regional pricing, but it's also understandable to lament the effect this has on poorer regions. 

Brushing that aside and telling this person that they personally should simply spend less money on video games totally misses the point and doesn't respond to anything they actually said. 

I'm sorry that your personal circumstances are difficult, and I'm glad you were fortunate enough to receive a copy of this game as a gift in spite of that. This person is merely asking that they be able to extend the same privilege to more of their own friends, and I struggle to see anything wrong with that. 

Thank you for understanding! I did know it would rub people the wrong way, the way I framed it, but it is hard to convey that idea without calling someone fortunate and framing someone else as less deserving.

[vewvew]

1 hour ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

Would you rather I respond to the part where they openly advocated for piracy of the game instead?

I have no sympathy for thieves.

What is the reason for piracy. Why would someone pirate something. 
Were we to be paid more than 0.5 euros an hour, maybe I would have the same view as you. As this is not a thread for a defence against piracy, but a solution against piracy by offering a solution. I do not know, what to tell you but, maybe try having more solidarity. We don't like being immoral either, but you are also being immmoral by not having the virtue of solidarity and engaging in the lack of humility; Pride, and the lack of charity; Greed. 
Let us just focus on, helping our fellow other human beings who did not choose where to be born. 

Edited 27 minutes ago by vewvew

[vewvew]

32 minutes ago, Emeal said:

As long as the profits are fine and the game is still in development there is no need release on steam. The logic needs to be the other way around.

Why does Anego Studios need to release a game they are still developing on Steam right now, unless they need cash and idk Tyron has not posted images of his car yet.

As for our friends in not so favourable parts in the world, to also enjoy the master piece we are enjoying.

[vewvew]

28 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

39 minutes ago, williams_482 said:

 

I've been told in DMs that I'm coming off harsher than I should. My point is not that people don't struggle. My point is that not being able to afford something not needed for basic life is no justification for pirating it. Food and water? sure. Video games? no. A lot of us skip things we simply cannot afford. This happens in all walks of life.

This might be the harshest I will be, I beg your pardon. But I do wish to reach your heart, while also conveying you, this is not about a defence on piracy.
I have been living with my parents for more than a decade since I started working for 0.5$ an hour, there is no better paying job here.
I have sacrificed to this game, the equivalent of not one month of work, but five, without expending on anything else, by saving up for my friends. 
I have spent over 200 hours of work time hours in this game, for how much I love it. While being shamed for living with my parents by my friends. 
You have spent nothing in work time hours for this game, for you have been gifted the game, and yet you come to morally say how wrong piracy is?
You are to tell people who sacrifice not eating on the monthly to save up for one nice thing, they are not deserving of something because we are to suffer for the consequences we did not choose for living in? Even if not eating, even if not paying rent, we will not even know if its even worth, something we cannot afford. 
This is not about piracy, but to reach more people that its only way to connect with this game is through immorality. Sorry. I do feel bad even having to beg for sympathy. 

[Teh Pizza Lady]

6 minutes ago, vewvew said:

it is hard to convey that idea without calling someone fortunate and framing someone else as less deserving.

It’s actually pretty easy to convey your point without using charged or discriminatory language. For example, you could have said:

Quote

"I come from a country where the cost of the game is a month's salary. That is unaffordable for us. If this game had regional pricing (like Steam does) then it would allow the game to reach a wider audience."

That summarizes your main idea from the initial post without framing anyone as more or less deserving and without bringing up piracy, which isn’t allowed here.

3 minutes ago, vewvew said:

What is the reason for piracy. Why would someone pirate something. 
Were we to be paid more than 0.5 euros an hour, maybe I would have the same view as you. As this is not a thread for a defence against piracy, but a solution against piracy by offering a solution. I do not know, what to tell you but, maybe try having more solidarity. We don't like being immoral either, but you are also being immmoral by not having the virtue of solidarity and engaging in the lack of humility; Pride, and the lack of charity; Greed. 
Let us just focus on, helping our fellow other human beings who did not choose where to be born. 

I understand the frustration about unfair wages and high prices, and I don’t dispute that it’s a real problem. Many countries in the world do not have strong economies on the global scale. My point was not to dismiss this, but instead to point out something much simpler: piracy is not the solution, no matter the circumstances. You can be sympathetic to people struggling without endorsing taking what isn't rightfully yours, aka, theft.

Solidarity can take many forms such as helping friends access games legally which you claimed to have eventually done, supporting regional pricing initiatives as you're requesting here, or simply sharing your own copy which is allowed by Anego Studios...not by breaking international law or bypassing a creator's work. That’s where I draw the line.

Your comments about helping others carry no weight when you openly admit to committing an act of fraud and claim that others are "forced" to do the same due to lack of regional pricing. No one is forced to take what they do not deserve.

Stealing essentials like food or water is a matter of survival; taking non-essentials like video games is a choice, and claiming necessity in that context is a flawed argument. Claiming that refusing to excuse theft is "immoral" because I lack solidarity or humility is absurd. Refusing to participate in or condone fraud is not greed. It is respecting the work and rights of others. Solidarity doesn’t mean endorsing crime; it means finding legal, constructive ways to help. Stealing video games is a choice, not a necessity, and framing it as a moral obligation is simply wrong.

[vewvew]

The only thing I have earned for reaching for help is to be warned to be censored and to shut up. Incredible. Thank you for reading everyone. 

[Teh Pizza Lady]

I understand that you've made sacrifices to enjoy the game. I don't want to dismiss the great effort you have put forth to save the money needed to buy not 1 but 5 copies of the game for you and your friends. That effort needs to be commended for you to do the right thing, even if you started out not going that way. That said, my point remains... buying the game was the right thing to do. Piracy was not. Struggling to afford something that's not a basic necessity doesn't change that basic principle.

There are ways to connect with the game without breaking international laws: account sharing, or saving up for it, which you have done. That's great. Let's focus on regional pricing. It's a great idea and given the circumstances of people across the world, it's a great way to reach a broader audience.