Regarding the impact of the crashcode put into ConfigLib and the needed clarification and explanation of the code for layman understanding

[tiggerbiggo]

2 minutes ago, Sparticus247 said:

For what it's worth I hope you get #1 in the end. It's obviously personally bothered you enough that if they are offering, it should be taken. They did warn that it might take time, has refunds on purchases made so far in the past could come with some difficulty from payment processors.

I don't think you're going to get #2, but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't renew his contract after this big update. 

#3 All depends on maturity on his part down the road. Maybe in a few years he'll look back and think "boy that really was a bit stupid" but that's not up to us.

This whole thing boils down to you not understanding why we can't see things the way you do. Different experiences mold different people. I've decided to give a little bit more grace on the first go around due to circumstances in my life and colleagues I've worked with over the past 20 years. I can't understand where you're coming from to a degree, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

Even if Malt leaves eventually i'll come back so long as there aren't any issues with what they have done in that time.

I can understand if you all want to keep playing. I think if you notice from what i've said none of it has been directed towards people who just want to keep playing. My anger comes from people trying to downplay it.

The thing is, you still have a game that your moral framework allows you to play. You don't have a problem with the state of things, but given how things are I can't play the game right now while staying true to what I believe. And hopefully you can see why being told i'm arguing in bad faith by a certain other user here is frustrating me even more...

[Teh Pizza Lady]

2 minutes ago, tiggerbiggo said:

My anger comes from people trying to downplay it.

And nobody is doing that here. They're just trying to reinforce the facts apart from  your own hyperbole and inability to grasp that the decision has already been made and we hope and pray Anego doesn't give into the mob mentality floating around here.

[tiggerbiggo]

2 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

I address that here: 

 

Personal forgiveness and professional standards aren't the same thing. If Tyrion and Malt have a good relationship behind the scenes forgiveness is entirely understandable. But even if my manager / my friends at the company forgive me for it personally, i'd still be fired. Their personal feelings wouldn't be enough to stop that. I know you love this game, but as (I assume) a non-coder, maybe it's just hard to communicate how clear the line is in this case, and how far it's been crossed. But the line is very clear, and it has been crossed.

[tiggerbiggo]

9 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

And nobody is doing that here. They're just trying to reinforce the facts apart from  your own hyperbole and inability to grasp that the decision has already been made and we hope and pray Anego doesn't give into the mob mentality floating around here.

You have, multiple times. You've tried to say that I want him to literally die. You've tried to conflate wanting more to be done with wanting his life ruined.

You've refused to engage with my arguments saying that it's not worth arguing with me without even saying why.

I'll stop making my point when something changes.

Edited Tuesday at 07:51 PM by tiggerbiggo

[tiggerbiggo]

4 minutes ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

And nobody is doing that here. They're just trying to reinforce the facts apart from  your own hyperbole and inability to grasp that the decision has already been made and we hope and pray Anego doesn't give into the mob mentality floating around here.

Don't worry about the fact that you can't actually point to any of my supposed hyperbole and just keep making assertions that I specifically want to ruin his life...

[Teh Pizza Lady]

10 minutes ago, tiggerbiggo said:

But even if my manager / my friends at the company forgive me for it personally, i'd still be fired.

Well I'm sorry you don't work for a company like Anego, then. I've done ... things that would have ended my employment at wherever it is you work, but wasn't a terminable offense where I worked. Heck I once went AWOL because I had a death in the family and I was forgiven for it and just placed on strict monitoring to ensure I was actually doing my job.

10 minutes ago, tiggerbiggo said:

it's just hard to communicate how clear the line is in this case, and how far it's been crossed. But the line is very clear, and it has been crossed.

All you had to say was it was malware. It was malware. That's crossing a line. There I said it. It was... "vigilante" malware... but still malware nonetheless. Clearly you haven't done your research on me or you'd know that I know that and have admitted it multiple times in this thread.

9 minutes ago, tiggerbiggo said:

You've tried to conflate wanting more to be done with wanting his life ruined.

Look, we get it. You want him fired because you would be fired for the same thing, we get it. If you got fired would your life be ruined? That's how resumes and gaps in employment history even works. You get fired, you must look for a new job. You cannot find a job in a reasonable amount of time, employers start asking "Why this gap in your resume?" Oh I got fired from my last job because of something I did before I even started working there. The customers voted and said either I go or they start asking for refunds that the company already offered. That would be a life-ruining event in his case. Why do you want that for him? Maybe that's the better question.

Either way we've both said our pieces. It's time to move on.

Edited Tuesday at 07:54 PM by Teh Pizza Lady

[OBAMFSpike]

Is there any rotten flesh left on the bones?

[hellmother]

This is an insane amount of overreaction for something that was over before it started according to the ModDB terms of service. Anego Studios isn't indemnified here; the user accepts the risk of any third-party mod that was run. Maltiez did very clearly break the rules for mod uploads, and he was appropriately banned from the ModDB (and the Discord).

https://mods.vintagestory.at/terms

The fact that the studio made a response, addressed the concerns and offered refunds is above and beyond.

That said, I don't care for the fact that the development team was apparently aware of the "extra features" in Maltiez' mods before banning him from the ModDB. I think this should've been escalated as soon as he announced it to them. Self-righteous vigilantism isn't a good look, nor the right temperament for employed programmers. Ultimately, his continuing employment is up to Anego Studios; we don't know what conversations have been had or are ongoing internally, and we won't going forward. I don't really think browbeating them about the failure is productive or elucidating.

[tiggerbiggo]

1 minute ago, Teh Pizza Lady said:

Well I'm sorry you don't work for a company like Anego, then. I've done ... things that would have ended my employment at wherever it is you work, but wasn't a terminable offense where I worked. Heck I once went AWOL because I had a death in the family and I was forgiven for it and just placed on strict monitoring to ensure I was actually doing my job.

All you had to say was it was malware. It was malware. That's crossing a line. There I said it. It was... "vigilante" malware... but still malware nonetheless. Clearly you haven't done your research on me or you'd know that I know that and have admitted it multiple times in this thread.

Look, we get it. You want him fired because you would be fired for the same thing, we get it. If you got fired would your life be ruined? That's how resumes and gaps in employment history even works. You get fired, you must look for a new job. You cannot find a job in a reasonable amount of time, employers start asking "Why this gap in your resume?" Oh I got fired from my last job because of something I did before I even started working there. The customers voted and said either I go or they start asking for refunds that the company already offered. That would be a life-ruining event in his case. Why do you want that for him? Maybe that's the better question.

My company isn't a bad one, i'd expect to be fired at any organisation for doing something like that.

So we agree the line was crossed, but not on the consequences. That's conversational progress at least. And no, I haven't read every single message you've sent in these threads, I don't normally use forums like this so I get a bit blinded by the whole paging thing, i'm used to threads. I should extend that same thing to you and the other people here honestly.

Ok, and thank you for understanding my position at least somewhat. I want the standard to be applied equally, and to me it's kind of the same principle that the law applies (not that this is a legal issue for reasons that have already been stated), that to me, ignorance of the rules is not an excuse, especially when the rules exist for a reason. The way I see it, Malt should have known that it was wrong in advance, for many reasons. You don't get to dodge a speeding ticket because you don't know the area, even if nobody gets hurt.

And regarding the final paragraph, losing a job does potentially have the ability to ruin someone's life, yes. But, the thing I want to communicate is that I don't specifically want that for him, even though I don't really like him. If it was up to me losing a job wouldn't leave someone without the ability to pay rent, buy food, have basic human experiences with others but that's not the reality. So I do understand why you're saying that since it does mean the possibility of their life being ruined if things go badly. But, when I put myself in that same position, if my life was ruined as a result, i'd be thinking "Yeah, that was my fault." I know you don't have to believe that, but I believe I would hold myself accountable if I lost my job to this same scenario, because i'd have known the entire time that it was a risk.

I don't need you to agree with me, just understand that i'm trying to put myself in that position and actually advocating for my own hypothetical life to be at risk because I disagree with the morality of doing this so hard. And ultimately the decision will be made without my say-so, and me arguing here is kinda just me coping at something I can't control. I do hope you can see that i'm not arguing in bad faith though, and I do understand why it comes across that way.

[troyus23]

This could very well be the end of Vintage Story for a lot of older Players. Which is a thing, probably, that no one cares about. This kind of behaviour is no longer accepted by many players.

[Mushroomancer]

7 minutes ago, troyus23 said:

This could very well be the end of Vintage Story for a lot of older Players. Which is a thing, probably, that no one cares about. This kind of behaviour is no longer accepted by many players.

It's a shame, really. To have so little faith in the game they all loved so much after a decade. 

[OBAMFSpike]

3 minutes ago, Mushroomancer said:

It's a shame, really. To have so little faith in the game they all loved so much after a decade. 

It's odd too. I thought old timers were thick skinned. I cannot comprehend all the ruffled feathers. 

[Sparticus247]

The only thing I'll add to this thread is this image below.

That is an acknowledgement of the false positives. If you have a list of other Mods that were not mentioned and affected, I would like to see that list. However it looks like again, this didn't bring down even 1% of the mods, but it did affect a few very popular ones, which were acknowledged.

But I echo @Teh Pizza Lady and suggest putting any new info in the mega thread before we start getting fractured info again. I'd also urge you to make sure everyone knows the true details. We've already got people circulating that "the devs are putting malware into their game" and not explaining in good faith the nature of the incident on purpose to stir the pot further into more outrage.

[Teh Pizza Lady]

33 minutes ago, OBAMFSpike said:

It's odd too. I thought old timers were thick skinned. I cannot comprehend all the ruffled feathers. 

They were told be be upset. So they are.

[OBAMFSpike]

It's quite ridiculous.

Ive been grifted online before. By the state police in North Carolina. Anyways I dont know where im going with this other then it would be a monkey barrel of fun to derail this zoo train. 

[Teh Pizza Lady]

I don't know why, but here's a picture of a wet beaver.

Edited Tuesday at 10:08 PM by Teh Pizza Lady

[troyus23]

I won't  quit i'll just never play multiplayer or with these mods 

[Mushroomancer]

9 minutes ago, troyus23 said:

I won't  quit i'll just never play multiplayer or with these mods 

This is an especially odd take. If the logic is that Maltiez is on the dev team and so the dev team can't be trusted, singleplayer isn't trustworthy, either. If the logic is that mods can't be trusted because they're inherently carrying a risk just in how they function, then that makes sense, but isn't tied to this controversy except that the controversy would make you aware of that fact and the fact it extends to mods in EVERY game. But by that logic vanilla Multiplayer is still fine.

[Nossin]

How it feels with Maltiez staying on the team and continuing to work on the game

Colorized photo by me, circa 2026

[Diff]

5 hours ago, Diff said:

I haven't looked at playerlist yet, planning to this afternoon. The first two angered ConfigLib by being obfuscated. More than 22% of their types were 2 chars or less. That's likely the case for the third, but there's a small chance of other shenanigans biting here.

@Thorfinn Found it. It's actually "playerlists" not "playerlist." There currently is no "playerlist," apparently there was some interesting drama going on with the original and its descendants. But after "playerlists" forked off from the original, it started obfuscating, likely related to being "merged with my own security addon" mentioned in the description.

So, same thing as the other two. This is by far the most popular of the false positives, with 3500 downloads on the latest version. Oddly nobody in the comments complaining about crashes. Both of the other mods had people in the comments, and this one should have been ripe for it with it being explicitly multiplayer-focused. Not sure what to make of that.

EDIT: Author confirms no reports of crashes, or crashes on their own server running the mod with one of the retracted versions of ConfigLib. I don't see how it escaped ConfigLib's wrath.

Edited Tuesday at 11:03 PM by Diff

[Sadi89]

Im was very confused today that my thread was "deleted" and now this complete different string of posts was in its place which seemed like a big amalgamation that were all melded together it seems. It also has my thread title [Regarding the impact of the crashcode put into ConfigLib and the needed clarification and explanation of the code for layman understanding] for some reason, so someone must have liked that.
It is a bit jarring having saved a hyperlink to my thread and landing in something completely different, with the same title but a different owner and having to search 34 pages for my responses. Defeats the whole purpose of my intention having a clear dissection of the code and its true impact on the players.

That felt really, not cool. 

my whole discussion is now buried so to speak.

Edited Tuesday at 11:37 PM by Sadi89

[OBAMFSpike]

No it's not buried, it's just compiled with the rest of the same content. 

[OBAMFSpike]

Just now, OBAMFSpike said:

No it's not buried, it's just compiled with the rest of the same content. 

Just like mine was. And the dead horse aint neighing no more. 

[Mushroomancer]

24 minutes ago, Sadi89 said:

Im was very confused today that my thread was "deleted" and now this complete different string of posts was in its place which seemed like a big amalgamation that were all melded together it seems. It also has my thread title [Regarding the impact of the crashcode put into ConfigLib and the needed clarification and explanation of the code for layman understanding] for some reason, so someone must have liked that.
It is a bit jarring having saved a hyperlink to my thread and landing in something completely different, with the same title but a different owner and having to search 34 pages for my responses. Defeats the whole purpose of my intention having a clear dissection of the code and its true impact on the players.

That felt really, not cool. 

my whole discussion is now buried so to speak.

I do think there was enough nuance to some of the threads for them to have stayed split, but I also think that keeping that firestorm form spreading out across the entire board was the goal and it certainly was doing that. Unfortunately that kind of means that more technical discussion has been merged with the emotionally charged 'debate' here. Though if I recall, it was already leaking into that thread at a slower pace, too.

[Zvengks]

6 hours ago, A_British_Lass said:

i'm not the only one who feels this has just made the situation... worse right? 

Oddly, This was enough for me.

I had 3 concerns.

1. They had ignored false positives crashing legit players
2. They had ignored maltiez being a caustic ass
3. They refused to give a real punishment to maltiez

So, point 1 they gave, is an explicit admission that yes, There where 3 mods that where false positives causing innocent players to crash. They don't specify the number of players, but they specify the number of mods, and exactly which ones they are, so you can check the number of downloads, and make a best guess estimate. If there where only 100 cheaters (as they claimed), it means the number of false positives crashing innocent players games absolutely dwarfs the number of cheaters crashed. That's 100% an admission. It's done with opaque corpo-speak, but they did say they where hiring someone to help with crisis management, so the wording probably came from them.

Point 2, Distances themselves from maltiez in the exact way that they should have in the first place. not supporting his asshole behavior, but also saying "hey, being rude or flippant aren't firable offenses". again, it's in crisis management corpo-speak, but It's the first thing they should have said, day one, instead of everything else. Although I can see a few reasons they wouldn't have done it right away.

Point 3. I saw someone on reddit refund the game after over 1000 hours. That's absolutely unheard of. 

That addresses 2/3rds of my concerns. 

my 3rd concern, Honestly, after asking why they refused to fire him, and essentially did PR for him, and a few other details. I got a theory on how/why all this happened, and it gives a... I guess satisfying is the right word.... answer to all those questions at once. Satisfying as in it answers the questions without creating more questions, not that the situation is good. but it's one that I can honestly forgive. It's not very flattering to anego if true, so I won't say it on their forums, but it's something I can understand, accept, and forgive. an honest mistake, and it explains why they wouldn't get rid of maltiez, would try to repair his reputation, and are willing to give refunds to +1000 hour players. 

I'm not refunding the game. I'm not actually mad anymore. at all.