Tool and weapon maintenance system with appropriate rewards.

[Thalius]

This suggestion adds a deeper element to several things:

1. It introduces a system of weapon and tool care, making it possible to potentially maintain an item indefinitely with proper maintenance.
2. It introduces a deeper element to blacksmithing work.
3. It adds an additional element to combat and work in general, rewarding greater damage against opponents and better resource gathering and output to the player that takes proper care of their gear.

 

Here is what I offer for consideration:

All appropriate weapons and tools would have a sharpness/dullness factor added to them.

• Add a base attack stat to weapon at creation that can be increased by sharpening with a whetstone, and decreases if the weapon becomes dull with use.
• The sharper the weapon, the more lethal it becomes.  A duller weapon does less damage than it's base stats.  A horribly dull sword for instance, regardless of metal type, would not be much better than a club.
• A sharper tool works more quickly, and would potentially yield a bit higher resource return.  A dull tool takes longer and yields potentially less. A sharp copper axe would cut better than a dull bronze axe, for example, and cut cleaner.  (Never mind that a copper axe would never work for cutting down tress anyway... but I digress ).
• Add whetstones and grind stones for use in sharpening tools and weapons.  Whetstones would be rarely found when breaking various stone types at the surface or when mining. Some stones would only be able to sharpen lower tier weapons and tools.  A softer stone, for example, would be useless for sharpening a dull steel sword, but still work great for putting an edge on a copper blade. These whetstones can be carried in one's inventory for use, but they would take damage quickly and need to be replaced. 
• Grindstones would be crafted by a player using a chisel and a solid block of stone of the type they desire to use, and would be permanent, stationary, and mechanically powered to be used.

Make damage repairable.

• Weapons and tools would take damage with use- more damage if used when dull.
• To repair a tool or weapon, allow the item to be placed in a furnace for heating, and then place on an anvil when ready.  Damage to the weapon or tool would show up as missing pixels of metal that need to be filled in.  More damage, more missing bits of metal.
• Allow an ingot of metal to be divided into quarters using a chisel and hammer.  These quarter ingots could be stored in a container, but not stacked on a surface like ingots.
• Allow these quarter ingots of metal to be used in repairing an item by shift-right click placing the heated quarter ingot onto the item to be repaired.  Smith the bits of metal into the damaged areas to repair the item and remove the extra.  Congrats, you just repaired your favorite sword.

All together I feel these changes would make for a more immersive and rewarding experience in the Vintage Story world.

Humbly submitted for consideration,

~TH~

Edited February 22, 2021 by Thalius

[l33tmaan]

What if I want to kill someone with a giant hammer?

[Erik]

It's certainly an idea that has been discussed a lot of times already:

For me, my general opinion on this hasn't really changed, constantly having to sharpen weapons seems like a huge tedium. Furthermore, the whole idea of a weapon becoming dull is kinda hurting combat, as fights will drag on over time, rather than getting more deadly the longer they go (which is something that could be archived with armor effectiveness scaling with durability, which while potentially having the same tedium problem, would actually be an improvement to combat gameplay).

I'm all for a repair system, but the one proposed seems to be a bit too much effort required imo, especially since the smithing system is already used so extensively, some people are getting annoyed by it. A system with a grindstone where the player exchanges max durability for more durability would be a better fit imo, as it would be a lot more convenient, while making tools not last forever, just significantly longer.

[Thalius]

23 minutes ago, Erik said:

For me, my general opinion on this hasn't really changed, constantly having to sharpen weapons seems like a huge tedium. Furthermore, the whole idea of a weapon becoming dull is kinda hurting combat, as fights will drag on over time, rather than getting more deadly the longer they go (which is something that could be archived with armor effectiveness scaling with durability, which while potentially having the same tedium problem, would actually be an improvement to combat gameplay).

I'm all for a repair system, but the one proposed seems to be a bit too much effort required imo, especially since the smithing system is already used so extensively, some people are getting annoyed by it. A system with a grindstone where the player exchanges max durability for more durability would be a better fit imo, as it would be a lot more convenient, while making tools not last forever, just significantly longer.

Not sure what you mean by battles dragging on over time, and having to constantly sharpen a weapon.  Three or four hits on a drifter with a lower tier weapon and they are down.  That happens fast.  If you are talking about combat in pvp against players wearing armor, I suppose that could go on for a while. I have no experience with pvp combat though.

That being said, I never implied that a weapon would dull quickly.  It would take time, and as with all metal types, higher tier weapons and tools would last longer before needing to be sharpened.  A main point of my suggestion is providing mechanics by which a weapon or tool could be maintained and kept forever with proper care.  This allows a player to have items that they favor and maybe, down the road, could even customize.  It would also allow for historic weapons with lore attached that could be bought from traders and used and maintained by a player indefinitely.

As for having to repair a weapon or tool, I do not see the issue with a player having to repair a weapon or a tool once in a while on an anvil to keep it from breaking.  Again, I'm not suggesting that has to be done after every use. Damage as well would take time, as it does now.

I have read over some of the other suggestions on this topic. I wanted to offer something simpler that could, in time, be built on.

[Thalius]

32 minutes ago, l33tmaan said:

What if I want to kill someone with a giant hammer?

Would love to eventually see damage types added around various weapons.

Hammers would just need to be repaired, of course.  That is why I said that a sharpness attribute would be added to "appropriate" weapons and tools.

Personally I want to wield a shield and a war hammer as a main, and strap a double bladed war axe on my back for when brute force is called for.

[l33tmaan]

I am infinitely amused that a warhammer isn't enough brute force for you. 

[Hal13]

We should try to not overcomplicate the mechanics with additional mechanics that early on...
Apart from that, quartering ingots would be kinda complicated, as an ingot consists of 2x3x7 metal voxels.

I don't think repairing items should require using the smithing mechanics, as that would take about the same amount of time as crafting a new one (and only slightly less material depending on how metal working will further develop).

Other than that a sharp scythe may make harvesting grain easier than using a dull one, but it doesn't yield more, and even now the time it saves isn't big compared to using bare hands. Btw. copper axes were used to chop down trees and they still work for that purpose, though they looked more like a chisel on a stick than modern axes (with modern here i mean late iron age and later).

Repairing an item shouldn't be much more complicated than repairing clothing, therefore i suggest the following:

1 hour ago, Hal13 said:

repairing stuff can actually be a material sink too, maybe each time you repair an item (tool, weapon, armor, clothing) you get less durability per item used, at some point it would be better to craft/buy a new one as you'd need more material for a complete repair than for a new item, but repairing is less time consuming and therefore you would still repair it as long as you have a big surplus of material. Each repair could be 5% less efficient than the last one, meaning you repair your copper armor with a copper plate to get 600 durability when you do it the first time, then use an ingot the next time but get only 285 durability, next time you use another plate because it got quite damaged which then gives 541, ... maybe capped at 50% at the lowest point... that way you might want to have items worth more than an ingot or two for big armor repairs, maybe chainmail helmets?

the big advantage would be you don't need new voxel models for tools with handles and armor, and of course it's similar to repairing clothing, meaning not another mechanic to learn for new players.

the grindstone could give a 'sharpened' buff though, maybe a bonus of 25% to work speed and/or damage for 30-40 tool uses/hits?

 

21 hours ago, l33tmaan said:

I am infinitely amused that a warhammer isn't enough brute force for you. 

it definitely isn't as good in cutting off limps and heads and most warhammers were lighter than waraxes, more light pickaxes than sledgehammers... therefore i'd say it'll be less bloody and gory...

 

here are some other suggestions (or links to the topics) concerning metal working:

Edited February 23, 2021 by Hal13