Throwing rocks: Not for noobs

[Exscorbizorb]

So in my experience aiming a weapon with a fast drop rate is much more difficult than aiming one with little or no drop.  Trying to adjust for the arc of a grenade launcher is harder than shooting a rail gun with no drop whatsoever.  Perhaps the experience of other players is different from my own, but rocks in VS require an incredible amount of skill to use.  Not only do they have a huge arc to their trajectory, but the difficulty of throwing them is compounded by inaccuracy being built into the game via the aiming mechanism (It never reaches the middle).  Even if you can hit something with them they do next to nothing in terms of damage.  The result is the worst weapon in the game being the most difficult to master.  Spears have a similar problem, but at least they have a decent damage output.  On top of all this, to hit targets that are far away would require looking so high that you can hardly see your opponent, much less actually have your reticule anywhere near them.

That being said, I'd like to suggest a revised throwing system: The player aims at a target, and the game calculates the appropriate angle to throw it.  The player's accuracy is then based on their ability to put their cursor on target, rather than their ability to judge distance on a 2d viewing device, and on lots of practice.  This has the obvious disadvantage of misses going way off track.  If you aim for an opponent, and your cursor is not directly on them, you will instead be aiming for something behind them, which could be very far away.  The projectile would then be thrown at way too high of an angle and come nowhere near your intended target.  Of course, for me at least, thrown items never come anywhere near their intended target anyway...

[Stroam]

The issue with that is it doesn't make sense that you'd look one way and throw another. There's also the issue of if you can't directly see what you are trying to hit, how does the game know you aren't trying to hit the wall instead of the animal behind it? Also throwing rocks doesn't do a lot of damage. Sure it can injure but that's not the same. I don't think the solution to your issue is a different rock throwing mechanic. I think it's a different weapon choice. If you like the idea of throwing rocks and want it with less arc I suggest modding in a sling. They are difficult to aim but do some real damage. 

[Exscorbizorb]

1 hour ago, Stroam said:

The issue with that is it doesn't make sense that you'd look one way and throw another.

This is exactly the issue with the current setup that I am proposing a solution to.  In order to throw anything, as it currently stands, you have to look up above your target.  What I am suggesting is that we change it to a setup where what you are looking at and what you are aiming at are the same thing.

Here is an illustration of how it currently works:

You literally have to look over their head to accommodate the arc of the object, because it starts out in the direction you are looking, but it doesn't go where you are looking, because it drops off.  This is far from realistic.  When you throw an object you look directly at your target.

With my suggested change it would be like this instead:

The game would figure out the trajectory.  You just look directly at it and throw.

1 hour ago, Stroam said:

There's also the issue of if you can't directly see what you are trying to hit, how does the game know you aren't trying to hit the wall instead of the animal behind it?

The game would just attempt to hit whatever your cursor is pointing at.  I find it hard to imagine a player trying to throw a stone over a wall at animal, but if you pointed your cursor up towards the sky it would work just the same whether this suggested aiming method was in place or not.

 

1 hour ago, Stroam said:

Also throwing rocks doesn't do a lot of damage. Sure it can injure but that's not the same.

That's a part of the problem I pointed out in the original post.  Rocks are very hard to aim, yet do next to nothing.  Why would anyone bother?  They would require a lot of work to master their use, with virtually no reward.  It would make sense if it was the other way around: easy to use but weak, or hard to use but powerful.  As it stands they are a lose-lose.

 

1 hour ago, Stroam said:

I don't think the solution to your issue is a different rock throwing mechanic. I think it's a different weapon choice.

The issue is usability, and not using them does nothing to solve that.  A player in the stone age should be able to use rocks as a ranged weapon, which seems to be why they are there.  You seem to be suggesting that we just not use them, because they are nearly impossible to use.  Indeed, why would anyone ever use them?  They are terrible.

 

1 hour ago, Stroam said:

If you like the idea of throwing rocks and want it with less arc I suggest modding in a sling.

I never said anything about lessening arc.

 

[Stroam]

15 minutes ago, Exscorbizorb said:

The game would figure out the trajectory.  You just look directly at it and throw.

 

This takes almost all of the player skill out of it.

1 minute ago, Exscorbizorb said:

The game would just attempt to hit whatever your cursor is pointing at.  I find it hard to imagine a player trying to throw a stone over a wall at animal, but if you pointed your cursor up towards the sky it would work just the same whether this suggested aiming method was in place or not.

How about a more common example where you can see the animal but there are tree branches in the way that you can't see because you are looking at the animal and where you are throwing? Or in a cave and the ceiling. Or maybe a fence is in the way so you want to lob it over. The current situation is flexible to handle all of this with a bit of practice.

5 minutes ago, Exscorbizorb said:

The issue is usability, and not using them does nothing to solve that.  A player in the stone age should be able to use rocks as a ranged weapon, which seems to be why they are there.  You seem to be suggesting that we just not use them, because they are nearly impossible to use.  Indeed, why would anyone ever use them?  They are terrible.

I'm not suggesting players don't use them. I'm suggesting those players whom aren't good at using them should probably find a different tactic or practice. Not everyone is having the difficulty you are. 

 

[Exscorbizorb]

2 minutes ago, Stroam said:

This takes almost all of the player skill out of it.

FPS shooter games don't seem to think so.  Getting your cursor on target is not all that easy in the heat of combat.  Even if it was true, it really isn't hard to throw a rock.  It's pretty basic.  My seven-year-old nephew can throw me a ball from twenty feet away every time.

5 minutes ago, Stroam said:

How about a more common example where you can see the animal but there are tree branches in the way that you can't see because you are looking at the animal and where you are throwing? Or in a cave and the ceiling. Or maybe a fence is in the way so you want to lob it over. The current situation is flexible to handle all of this with a bit of practice.

Tree branches could be treated as invisible, fences and anything else the player can see through could be treated as invisible, since they probably aren't something anyone would be trying to hit.  I can't imagine how a ceiling could possibly get in the way, except when it would be in the way of the trajectory of your throw to begin with.

[redram]

Rocks shouldn't be a viable weapon.  They *should* be hard a tedious to use.  Otherwise what's the point of making actual weapons?  They're fine how they are.  As Stroam said, it would make more sense for a sling to have the mechanics you describe @Exscorbizorb.   And when I say 'sense', I'm talking in terms of game progression, not rl.  RL should pretty much always take a back seat to progression, imo.

[Exscorbizorb]

I agree that they shouldn't be viable, but I think the reason for it should be low damage output and poor range, not difficulty of use.  Game progression with tech is already following real world progression.  People upgraded from throwing rocks to spears in bows because they are better in terms of both range and damage.  I don't see why they should require exceptional skill to use in addition to these other factors.  It just makes them so frustrating to use that they have no place whatsoever in the progression.  Nobody will use them at all, especially when spears are readily available.  They could at least serve the purpose of a makeshift weapon if they were usable.