steam Are the developers ready to launch Vintage Story on Steam?

[Yappi Door]

Are the developers ready to launch Vintage Story to the Steam platform?

Would you like to buy it there to play?
Is the game good for Steam?
Will there be regional prices?
If so, will there be different achievements (I really want to see it, +100 to motivation), emoticons, frames, mini-profiles, backgrounds, maybe even animated backgrounds?
Write what do you people think about this?

Links for example photos :

Screenshot_1

Screenshot_2

Screenshot_3
Screenshot_4

 Temporary total :
1) Steam, alas, collects as much as 30% from the sale of games that VS developers cannot pull yet.
2) There will most likely be no regional prices.
3) The game is still raw to switch to platforms. She is still somewhere else in alpha and if she comes out right now, the game will drown in negative or "mixed" reviews.
4) Anego Studio is already, in fact, a small studio, and for things like backgrounds, achievements and emoticons, at least one new developer will be needed, which can negatively affect the studio's finances.
5) If it will be on Steam, then there will most likely be no problems with choosing the version. Daretmavi showed the screenshot below how it looks.
6) If you switch to platforms, then not only on Steam, button GOG, ETC, etc.

Edited August 1, 2022 by KLEMARK
Added a screenshot, to be immediately visible without logging into Google Drive.

[l33tmaan]

I think it's a terrible idea and people should move away from DRM platforms like Steam as much as possible. I don't care how visible it makes the game.

[Yappi Door]

2 minutes ago, l33tmaan said:

I think it's a terrible idea and people should move away from DRM platforms like Steam as much as possible. I don't care how visible it makes the game.

But it's convenient when everything is in one place, on one platform.

[l33tmaan]

I think the world is a little too convenient right now.

[Hal13]

Steam takes a significant cut from any sales over it, I'm not sure atm but it was somewhere around 30%. Additionally it imposes strict guidelines on how long refunds are allowed, which would mean people buying over Steam would have to pay more (and as Steam enforces that the game is not available for less anywhere else, the fees would come out of pocket of all new players no matter where they buy the game) and may not be able to get a refund.

Additionally you only get one chance for a good first impression on Steam and if you fail with that the overall steam review will tarnish most professional reviews nowadays. In the long run though there are plans for adding VS to Steam.

 

Now to your questions:

- I won't buy anything over Steam, I have an account and quite some library (all titles gotten from HB or through crowdfundings) but as they limit people's ability to play the games they own as long as you don't use their store, I won't use their store.

- The game is good already, but how it will perform on Steam is still questionable, just look at how many new players basically want another game (see topics in discussion and suggestion subforums) after playing.

- I don't think there will be regional prices.

- I don't care for steam achievements.

[daretmavi]

Steam is like good and evil.

The cut from sales and refund policy are on the evil site, but lots of things are good.

What I really appreciate on Steam is they support of Linux gaming. They have done a lot for it.

 

[Hal13]

I see you confused, Steam only allows users to write reviews and post in the forum of several games, as well as play multiplayer games with friends and several things more, if you use their store or at least put money into your account. I only have gotten the account because some crowdfunding did surprise me with releasing the game only on Steam (no mention of it before, no alternative) now I have the account mostly for game testing early versions (because Steam seems to make rolling out of updates easier) and for crowd funded games, since I got it anyway I did add games I got through Humble Bundle to my library.

Steam forces updates on its users, breaking working modded games on a regular basis. Any game that can be modded or is intended for modded gameplay, like VS, doesn't work on a plattform like Steam, as you can only have a single installation of the latest version there. That's why I highly expect waves of negative reviews on Steam each time VS would update and break people's setup. Usually people reviewing something are more inclined to do so when it's something negative to tell (just look into this forum and make a ratio of positive vs negative reviews), hence VS might perform badly in Steam reviews and as most professional game reviewers nowadays at least mention the reviews on Steam, a not positive ratio of Steam reviews will impact sales. Of course making an extra launcher like some games have might mitigate the problem, but programming and keeping that launcher up-to-date is additional coding and design work going not into the game itself, not something viable for a game with only 1! full time programmer. Additionally the game's price would have to be increased everywhere to accomodate for Steam's fees, with regional pricing being not an option as long as the game does not suddenly explode in sales, which is not to be expected as on Steam there are at least dozens of voxel based survival games and hundreds if not thousands of horror games and competition everywhere.

Steam Achievements are another thing that need implementation and therefore extra work, regional ones therefore won't happen, I repeat only 1 fulltime programmer.

[l33tmaan]

God, I hate the Steam Workshop so much. It makes playing Project Zomboid in multiplayer an utter nightmare. I didn't even consider that before posting ITT. 

[Yappi Door]

23 minutes ago, l33tmaan said:

God, I hate the Steam Workshop so much. It makes playing Project Zomboid in multiplayer an utter nightmare. I didn't even consider that before posting ITT. 

If you don't like the steam workshop, then don't use it. Let everyone adjust the game for himself as he wants. 

[Yappi Door]

3 hours ago, Hal13 said:

I see you confused, Steam only allows users to write reviews and post in the forum of several games, as well as play multiplayer games with friends and several things more, if you use their store or at least put money into your account. I only have gotten the account because some crowdfunding did surprise me with releasing the game only on Steam (no mention of it before, no alternative) now I have the account mostly for game testing early versions (because Steam seems to make rolling out of updates easier) and for crowd funded games, since I got it anyway I did add games I got through Humble Bundle to my library.

Steam forces updates on its users, breaking working modded games on a regular basis. Any game that can be modded or is intended for modded gameplay, like VS, doesn't work on a plattform like Steam, as you can only have a single installation of the latest version there. That's why I highly expect waves of negative reviews on Steam each time VS would update and break people's setup. Usually people reviewing something are more inclined to do so when it's something negative to tell (just look into this forum and make a ratio of positive vs negative reviews), hence VS might perform badly in Steam reviews and as most professional game reviewers nowadays at least mention the reviews on Steam, a not positive ratio of Steam reviews will impact sales. Of course making an extra launcher like some games have might mitigate the problem, but programming and keeping that launcher up-to-date is additional coding and design work going not into the game itself, not something viable for a game with only 1! full time programmer. Additionally the game's price would have to be increased everywhere to accomodate for Steam's fees, with regional pricing being not an option as long as the game does not suddenly explode in sales, which is not to be expected as on Steam there are at least dozens of voxel based survival games and hundreds if not thousands of horror games and competition everywhere.

Steam Achievements are another thing that need implementation and therefore extra work, regional ones therefore won't happen, I repeat only 1 fulltime programmer.

And what if we ask the community to make at least icons? And those that they like more will get into the game.

[l33tmaan]

23 minutes ago, KLEMARK said:

If you don't like the steam workshop, then don't use it. Let everyone adjust the game for himself as he wants. 

So you're saying I should have bought it on GOG instead??? You're probably right, but that's not really a point in support of Vintage Story coming to Steam.

The Steam Workshop has deleted mods from my server just because the original owner deleted the mod from Steam. It went into my computer and removed the content I downloaded and I was screwed until someone else reuploaded it to Steam. I don't want that for Vintage Story.

[Yappi Door]

59 minutes ago, l33tmaan said:

So you're saying I should have bought it on GOG instead??? You're probably right, but that's not really a point in support of Vintage Story coming to Steam.

The Steam Workshop has deleted mods from my server just because the original owner deleted the mod from Steam. It went into my computer and removed the content I downloaded and I was screwed until someone else reuploaded it to Steam. I don't want that for Vintage Story.

No, why? Steam is a great platform, but not ideal.
Alas, this is how copyrights work. Apparently the original owner had reasons for this, and Steam has much more tricks than GOG.

[l33tmaan]

No, that's not how copyrights work! I downloaded it! It's mine!

[Yappi Door]

18 hours ago, l33tmaan said:

No, that's not how copyrights work! I downloaded it! It's mine!

If, for example, you downloaded music, then it's not yours, it has copyrights...

[Garjouan]

That's the joke...

[Hal13]

On 7/22/2022 at 8:03 PM, KLEMARK said:

Alas, this is how copyrights work. Apparently the original owner had reasons for this, and Steam has much more tricks than GOG.

It's an illegal intrusion into ones IT infrastructure to delete or add files without the infrastructure's owners explicit permission/involvement. Steam does indeed have more tricks, they don't care for most laws for example, providing porn games to minors, not paying their taxes correctly...

Copyright works totally different:
A private copy is allowed and the use of it is too. A copyrights claim cannot be made for anything that isn't distributed, meaning as long as the content sits on your computer and you don't provide uncountable copies to others (depending on the laws on private copies, a rule of thumb is: do you know everyone personally you provide copies to? if not, it's not a private copy anymore) it cannot be claimed. Even if claimed, the owner of the computer it's on has to delete it and that's the person the claim has to be addressed at too, which is often the problem if you find some of your works provided illegally somewhere.

2 hours ago, KLEMARK said:

If, for example, you downloaded music, then it's not yours, it has copyrights...

If you got the music legally correct, the copy is yours to keep, copyrights aren't touched by that. And the music itself has no copyrights, it only is protected by copyright laws against illegal distribution.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Hal13

[Epihnea]

On 7/21/2022 at 7:45 PM, KLEMARK said:

But it's convenient when everything is in one place, on one platform.

And when the said monopoly will close , you'll lose everything because all your egss were in the same basket and you never truly owned your games. No thanks , i'd rather have 50 game icons on my desktop that having a "convenient launcher with everything in one place".
 

[Hal13]

I don't mind a convenient launcher, that I can just add games to, even those not bought through its mother company. But for me convenient means, I'm able to have several installations of different versions of a game and the launcher will not force me to update every goddamn time I need one of the older versions to confirm a bug, review a game mechanical change or play a certain configuration of mods. I don't mind a message about there being a new update either.

Sadly the library in GOG Galaxy is a bit cumbersome but apart of that it does what I want and doesn't restrict usage of the games you own.

I really would love a useful itch.io library too.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Hal13

[daretmavi]

On 7/22/2022 at 3:15 PM, Hal13 said:

plattform like Steam, as you can only have a single installation of the latest version there. That's why I highly expect waves of negative reviews on Steam each time VS would update and break people's setup.

I'm sure Steam allow different versions. It is probably devs decision.
E.g. see 7d2D - in Betas you can choice your version.

 

 

[daretmavi]

On 7/22/2022 at 3:15 PM, Hal13 said:

Steam Achievements are another thing that need implementation and therefore extra work, regional ones therefore won't happen, I repeat only 1 fulltime programmer.

Are Steam Achievements mandatory?

Not sure how is it now, but in the past this was not the case.

[daretmavi]

On 7/22/2022 at 7:02 PM, l33tmaan said:

The Steam Workshop has deleted mods from my server just because the original owner deleted the mod from Steam. It went into my computer and removed the content I downloaded and I was screwed until someone else reuploaded it to Steam. I don't want that for Vintage Story.

This was really not nice. Something like this should not be legal.

[daretmavi]

On 7/24/2022 at 2:43 AM, Epihnea said:

And when the said monopoly will close , you'll lose everything because all your egss were in the same basket and you never truly owned your games. No thanks , i'd rather have 50 game icons on my desktop that having a "convenient launcher with everything in one place".

Yes, that is the risk, even is the probability, that something like this happens is low, it can happen.

Lutris is nice opensource launcher for Linux. I'm sure something like this can be found for Windows as well.

[daretmavi]

On 7/24/2022 at 12:09 PM, Hal13 said:

I don't mind a convenient launcher, that I can just add games to, even those not bought through its mother company. But for me convenient means, I'm able to have several installations of different versions of a game and the launcher will not force me to update every goddamn time I need one of the older versions to confirm a bug, review a game mechanical change or play a certain configuration of mods. I don't mind a message about there being a new update either.

You don't mind, I don't mind, but there are many people not technically not able to do too complicated things on PC.

Many people just use PC and they need simple interface to buy, install and play games. Steam is good in it and is very successful so many Devs are using it to release they games despite the terms.

Should Devs give VS on Steam? Not sure, probably not. It is still alpha, many functions are only on Roadmap, ... Overall it is a good game, but not for everybody.

If they decide to expand, than Steam could be a good way how to get more money.

[Hal13]

23 hours ago, daretmavi said:

I'm sure Steam allow different versions. It is probably devs decision.
E.g. see 7d2D - in Betas you can choice your version.

 

 

They only allow a single installation, you can't have different versions parallel, even when you can use another version (which does seem to be the case nearly never, even in case of indie devs, found 1 game in my library of over 300 games on Steam with such a longer list with stable versions) it will uninstall one version to install the new selected version. Every time they will convert your save files and delete any mods not on steam (because only those you subscribed to will be reinstalled), making corruption near unavoidable over time, at least as long as the game isn't built around that problem, but with blocks being added to and/or removed from the game every version and in many mods, one is just asking for it.

23 hours ago, daretmavi said:

Are Steam Achievements mandatory?

Not sure how is it now, but in the past this was not the case.

No they are not, but they were asked for:

On 7/21/2022 at 6:37 PM, KLEMARK said:

If so, will there be different achievements (I really want to see it, +100 to motivation), emoticons, frames, mini-profiles, backgrounds, maybe even animated backgrounds?

 

23 hours ago, daretmavi said:

You don't mind, I don't mind, but there are many people not technically not able to do too complicated things on PC.

Many people just use PC and they need simple interface to buy, install and play games.

The installation we already have isn't complicated. And one could argue the simplest and most convenient "launcher", meeting the criteria I've set, would be the windows start menu...

Tbh the way VS does things, I suspect players who want to not hassle at all, won't like it. And players who are overwhelmed by a simple installer, will likely suggest every mod and option they want to use should be preset in the vanilla game, instead of customizing the game themselves. I don't want to sound elitist or something but customizing world settings is way more complicated than double-click and select a folder.

As a PC user (though I do plan to change to Linux, as it becomes more accessible with about every new distribution) I feel a bit called out.

23 hours ago, daretmavi said:

many Devs are using it to release they games despite the terms.

It's used by many small Devs because their games have a chance to be shown to many additional potential players and for a game with near 0 player base that can kick start their sales to a level where further development becomes doable. But it's a coin flip, either you're game gets good reviews, is celebrated and therefore gets recommended and showcased more often or you're game gets bad reviews at first or none at all and it will become a failure marked as such forever, reviews usually won't be changed later after addressing some issue, reviews do not expire either. Additionally you need to follow trends when releasing on Steam. If it's not fitting the current trend when you release it there, then it will be drowned by the hundreds of games and updates releasing at the same time that follow the trend.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Hal13

[daretmavi]

On 7/28/2022 at 8:50 PM, Hal13 said:

They only allow a single installation, you can't have different versions parallel, even when you can use another version (which does seem to be the case nearly never, even in case of indie devs, found 1 game in my library of over 300 games on Steam with such a longer list with stable versions) it will uninstall one version to install the new selected version.

That is true.

If you play vanilla, than it's not a big issue.
If you use too many, or too complicated mods (which are easy to break between versions), than it can be a problem. In this case, some launcher, where you can choice your version is needed. It doesn't have be a big problem, because every version can live in own directory without problem even now. So the launcher only has to run game from different directories.

On 7/28/2022 at 8:50 PM, Hal13 said:

And players who are overwhelmed by a simple installer, will likely suggest every mod and option they want to use should be preset in the vanilla game, instead of customizing the game themselves.

Not sure about that.

I myself am fan of vanilla. I believe that everything for quality of life should be in vanilla (e.g. Prospecting mod) and everything that fits the design should be there as well.
I see mods more for thing, that somehow doesn't fit in the game (e.g. guns) or, if you want make different experience of the game (e.g. total different behavior of game elements).

If you need too much mods for QoL in the game, or add mechanics their should be in the game, than something is wrong with the game (like Minecraft) or the game is in alpha

On 7/28/2022 at 8:50 PM, Hal13 said:

As a PC user (though I do plan to change to Linux, as it becomes more accessible with about every new distribution) I feel a bit called out.

I support that

Nowadays is Linux easier to use and configure than Windows.

If you like modern interface, use KDE (https://neon.kde.org/), Gnome (https://ubuntu.com/), ...
For classic, I suggest to use Cinnamone, or Xfce (https://www.linuxmint.com/)
- all of them are really easy to use